Welcome to Gaia! ::

Let me ask you a question all questions. Do we not have feelings? Do we not breathe the same air you do? Do we not have flesh, bones, a soul? Do we not occupy the same planet that you do? Do we not have the same creator? My God is the same God that sent his son to die for ALL of humanity, gay, bi, lesbian, trans, and straight. You claim God created everyone the way he had planned. Then, obviously, he created us gay. He wanted us this way. My God loves everyone. He does not hate. Jesus does not hate anyone. He loves all.

Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

The most common reference against homosexuality comes from a story in Genesis. In Chapter 18 of the book, we see God about to destroy the evil twin cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sends two angels to warn the one godly family of the imminent demise of these cities, only to have the locals demand that these two angels, who appeared like men, come out so they could have sex with them. Of course this didn't please God very much. However, Lot, the father of this one so-called godly family, does an interesting thing. In chapter 19, verse 8, the Bible tells how Lot offered to give his virgin daughters to these men so that they might rape them instead. Is this how God wants us to protect ourselves from the "homosexual agenda," by offering to let them rape our virgin daughters? Ask that to the Fundamentalist and see how much they squirm.

Likewise, in the Old Testament Book of Leviticus, we're told it is wrong for a man to be with another man. However, within the same book we are also told that it is wrong to eat pork. If Fundamentalists use the Leviticus verses, simply ask them when was the last time they had bacon. According to the same Old Testament book that condemns the practice of homosexuality, they would also be condemned to hell for eating a BLT sandwich. However, they would not be committing sin if they still owned slaves, since Leviticus tells us such activity is okay. Think the Fundamentalists will agree with that?

Forced out of the Old Testament in their crusade against homosexuality, the Fundamentalist will quote from Romans, or more specifically from 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, both written by the Apostle Paul. He offers a list of sins that will keep a person out of Heaven. Among them is homosexual behavior. However, also listed among these is adultery. And they can do this because they don't believe they have any lifestyle sins of their own. If you ask them about it, they'll say things like, "I used to sleep around but I was forgiven of that sin and now I don't do it anymore." However, ask them if a homosexual can be saved by God's grace, and they will say, "The gay man who does not turn from his homosexuality is choosing to live a lifestyle counter to God's laws and is not, therefore, saved by grace." What they conveniently forget is that 50% of them - those who count themselves among the Religious Right - are divorced, and more than 85% of those are remarried. What that means is, according to the Bible, that nearly 43% of the same people who condemn the gay man for his homosexuality choose to live in a lifestyle of adultery, a sin that ranks equal to homosexuality in God's eyes.

That's right. The very people who condemn one "sinful" lifestyle are practicing another.

You see, in the Bible Jesus said:
"Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18

A divorced man who remarries is entering into an adulterous relationship. And it's not just a relationship; it's an adulterous lifestyle because the remarried man chooses to continue living in the adulterous relationship for the rest of his life (or until he divorces and remarries again). However, if you ask this adulterous man if he is still a Christian, he will say something like, "I believe God has forgiven me and I'm now living under his grace." And ask him if he's willing to leave his current wife in order to "turn from his adulterous lifestyle," and he will refuse because "God's grace has already saved him." But this is the same man who earlier claimed that the homosexual must turn from his "sinful" lifestyle as a condition of receiving God's grace.

Sound unfair? It is.

Sound ungodly? Let's see what Christ had to say about it:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. " Matthew 7:1-2

And:

"Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents; and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, ..Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and seizing him by the throat he said, ..Pay what you owe.' So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, ..Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' He refused and went and put him in prison till he should pay the debt. When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place. Then his lord summoned him and said to him, ..You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me; and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart." Matthew 18:23-35

The Religious Right is nearly half-full with people living in continuous adulterous lifestyles, and those who are not remarried fully accept their remarried brothers and sisters without question. They even perform their adulterous marriage ceremonies in their churches. Yet they have the gall to preach from their pulpits or shout through the airwaves that God wants us to stop the world from accepting homosexuals the same way they have been accepted by God.

Jesus warned us not to be like the servant who was forgiven his debt by the grace of his lord but then used the legal system to throw a fellow slave in jail.18 The Religious Right, however, claim God's grace for their own lifestyle sins but then turn around and give tremendous amounts of time and money to use the legal system against homosexuals.

It is a double standard. It is a mockery. If Christ took their sins to the cross and became an adulterer through propitiation before burying that sin in the ground, then Christ also took the gay person's sin to the cross and became a homosexual before burying that sin in the ground. The Religious Right, and everyone else, should either accept that God's grace covers all of us, including those living in sinful lifestyles, or that none of us are covered. They should either condemn their remarried members or shut up about those among us who are gay.

But they don't. And we are left to wonder why.

Why do they pick on one "sinful" lifestyle but not their own? Why homosexuality and not adultery? They say it's because homosexuality is damaging our families and hurting our children. But which is really worse? Over 50% of American parents get divorced. Most of those remarry. Over 50% of our children have their families torn apart and then merged with the families of strangers (causing a lot of sexual abuse on children by step-parents). But less than 10% of the population is homosexual. Even if they had twice as many relationships as heterosexuals do, they could not possibly cause the kind of damage that heterosexual divorce and remarriage does

A more logical explanation is that these Christians are afraid of the unknown and they want to control it. Heterosexuals have often been uncomfortable with homosexuals. The term "f**" is used to insult one's manliness; and "dyke" to insult one's femininity. Society in general has not been kind to its homosexual members. But with the addition of Fundamentalist Religious fervor, and the ability to rationalize their own sins away, the Religious Right have turned the fear of homosexuality into a holy war against a portion of the population. Of course, the Religious Right claim they are not trying to hurt anyone. They use phrases like, "We must love the sinner but hate the sin." But as Einstein said and Christ demonstrated, "You cannot simultaneously say that you love someone and use your power against them."

Christ did not use his power to legislate against the sinful people of his day. Instead he went drinking with them.19 Christ did not condemn the person caught with her pants down - literally. Instead he embarrassed her detractors by saying that anyone who had not sinned could throw the first stone at her - and not one got thrown. Christ did not raise money for his causes by claiming that those involved in the sinful lifestyles of his day were ganging up to "destroy the family." Instead he invited them to be his friends and followers.

And perhaps that is the most logical explanation yet. Playing on people's fears is a great way to make money. Advertisers use it every day. If you don't want dandruff, use this. If you don't want to smell bad, use that. If you don't want to end up sick or dead, eat our stuff instead of their stuff. And if you don't want homosexuals taking over our schools, support our cause by sending in your donations. Fear sells. Whether intentional or not, the truth is the Religious Right rake in a great deal of money every time they claim homosexuals are threatening our nation's families, or worse, our children. The former vice-president of Focus on the Family, a leading Religious Right organization, stated in his book, "James Dobson's War on America" (Dobson is the founder and president) that when their donations went down, they could simply broadcast a scary special about the gay agenda (or the evil women's movement or the even more evil abortion rights groups - but never remarried people since that would drive away nearly half of their listeners) and their revenues would increase substantially.

This is how they "love the sinner," by abusing them in order to make money? The term "mockery" doesn't begin to describe the trashing these so-called Christians are doing to God's name. The Religious Right should get down on their knees and beg the forgiveness of every homosexual man or woman they have publicly condemned on their way to the bank. They should beg God's forgiveness for being just like the wicked servant in Christ's story, forgiven of their own sinful lifestyles but unwilling to forgive the lifestyles of their fellow human beings. And then they should stop their self-righteous rhetoric and remember that for a moment in their savior's life, as he hung on a cross for everyone's sin, that Christ was gay.

Not all christians hate gays.
One of my best friends is christian.
We never have arguments about whose right or wrong or what is or isn't against nature.
I don't know a ton about religion, but i think using it as an excuse to justify your personal hatred or prejudice is pathetic.

Un-Locked.

To Organic Paranoia, my argument is just showing, using the same passages that are used against people like us, why Christians quoting the bible are hypocritical. I don't hate Christians. I am Christian. I just am showing how those that use the bible are hypocrites.

well really, most of it depends on how you believe in your god. like, if you're orthodox or whatever. i mean, you got people in the same church at the same time possibly in the same pew who say "god doesn't mind a white lie" and then next to them "will god forgive me for what i've done?" and stuff like that. religions you're own interpretation, but it's true, people don't usually listen to what other people believe about god cuz they wanna use him to defend their thoughts. it's kinda lame, but that's why i don't really like religion.

OH MY GOD! ok, so i heard about this controversy at a mormon church in which a lesbian couple was sent away for kissing one another. granted, kissing at a church is a dumb idea no matter what your sexuality cuz people find it disrespectful in the house of the lord (sure, we all have our ideas about how to show respect, but i can guarantee most people would call that wrong) and so now a bunch of gay people are going to gather in front of that mormon church and just kiss.

kinda a nice form of rebellion. make love, not war. i like it, because despite what people may think, if nothing else, it's a nice way to show people that if they don't get stricken my lightening or if a bus doesn't drive up the curb and hit them, God must not mind them too much for allowing them to do it.

not to mention if mormons do anything violent about it as a reaction, they'll be going against god. it'll pretty much end up like a conversation, everyone respectfully using ACTIONS instead of words, to solve things in a civilized manor. i dunno, i'm finding the poetry in everything. it's the girl in me comin out. haha

yeah, lately it seems like a lot of people are open-minded enough to not care if people are gay or not. then there are the handful of jerks who end up hating for no reason. in fact, my teacher started hating me most when i had a friend of mine sit on my lap. HELLO, we were joking around cuz i was sitting in her seat while talking to another friend who happens to sit next to her. but that's just cuz she's an old fart. not to mention i didn't make matters better by speaking my mind in that class. haha.

but yeah, people seem mostly cool.