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 Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:11 pm
The Lady Eros Ah ah ah, no no. Half your response is totally invalid because you assume I made presuptions about you, specifically. I responded to your post, yes, but I didn't not constantly say that you think this this and this.
1) Kyo is not being disrespectful, he is being blunt and honest. Whether or not people think his words were rude isn't really going to change the reality of his statement.
2) By saying 'western audience' I get very, very fuzzy. Music in America doesn't sound the same as mainstream Chinese, Russian, French, German, so on and so on music. So who are they trying to appeal to? Everyone in countries west of Japan? It will take a hell of a lot of albums to do so. And the linking Park reference: did you not know Kaoru is a big LP fan? Perhaps it's them who has influenced him some, just like many bands on the Family Values tour influenced the sound of MOAB.
3) So.. Are you knocking them for producing something that comes out via their own influences? Or because they have simply made something that sounds more mainstream because that's how it happened? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say there. A band is aloud to have influences show in their music, they are allowed to be mainstream if they want.
4) I'll restate the fact that you assume I was making a ton of presumptions about you, because that's really all you stated in this one. The rest is just going "Hello Captain Obvious."
5)A former member of a VK band who's famous for looking like a girl. I've never heard anything about his musical skill, just that he's so cute. It was an example. 1) I said nothing about changing the reality of his comment, just that it carried ungrateful connotations. Which if you think about it, telling the people who got you where you are to take a hike for any reason is. 2) Western audience as in American/European (if it will help to better clarify, we'll say western = the type of countries they've been touring in post WTD). I knew Karou was an LP fan, which is what made it even easier for me to see the similarities between WTD and that particular band. So if you agree that bands like LP and various Family Values bands have influenced the direction of their sound, why do you also seem to disagree with me when I say it sounds as though Diru is trying to appeal to those same audiences (that in conjunction with the touring in American/European countries)? 3) I 'knock' them for making music that sounds like that of other bands. Forget influence, it goes beyond influence when your entire album sounds like someone else's. And in this instance, that particular sound just happens to be the main reason I stopped listening to the bands they are emulating, and started listening to Diru. They had their own unique take on rock, their own unique style, but now it is as though their style is just a regurgitation of bands who, in my opinion, are not as good. I know they are capable of better because they kept putting out awesome music for the first 7(?) years as a band, before they started being influenced. 4) I assume you were making presumptions based on the last two things I addressed. For instance, "go drool over Bou," you assume I know who Bou is, or am the type of person that puts importance on the appearance of artists I like, ie. "drool" over them. Both presumptions that are false.
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:18 pm
KyotoPsycho I have to say i agree 100 percent with eros! and this entire idea that they started playing in a more "western sound" to appeal to western audiences can be fired back at people by saying they played in visual clothing to grab the attention of the japanese fanbase. I think that that would be more true than the idea of selling out to western audiences because they were already so popular as a visual band if they wanted to keep the fanbase happy and make money they could have played it safe! Kyo saying that if you dont like the music dont come to the gig is brilliant! good for him he always says stuff like that he also said very early on that fans who stand at the back and dont move annoy him. If you dont like it tuff shizz stop moaning about it and go listen to music you enjoy or are you that bored you feel the need to complain about stuff move on stop complaning and wasting your own time and money its simple. But that's just it. So what if they adopted some look to draw attention? Unless you are a very shallow fan who isn't worth mention because you only listen to a band based on their looks, whatever look that they had shouldn't matter. The point was that they were a band, and they had a musical style all their own (imo), and each song had its own unique quality. The problem with your observation is that in emulating western bands, their SOUND is now affected, sound being the most important thing considering they are a musical band, not a fashion troupe. Adopting a VK look to draw attention, is really not the same as imitating other people's music when your whole purpose of being a band is making your own music.
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:36 am
namida_no_chi 1) I said nothing about changing the reality of his comment, just that it carried ungrateful connotations. Which if you think about it, telling the people who got you where you are to take a hike for any reason is. 2) Western audience as in American/European (if it will help to better clarify, we'll say western = the type of countries they've been touring in post WTD). I knew Karou was an LP fan, which is what made it even easier for me to see the similarities between WTD and that particular band. So if you agree that bands like LP and various Family Values bands have influenced the direction of their sound, why do you also seem to disagree with me when I say it sounds as though Diru is trying to appeal to those same audiences (that in conjunction with the touring in American/European countries)? 3) I 'knock' them for making music that sounds like that of other bands. Forget influence, it goes beyond influence when your entire album sounds like someone else's. And in this instance, that particular sound just happens to be the main reason I stopped listening to the bands they are emulating, and started listening to Diru. They had their own unique take on rock, their own unique style, but now it is as though their style is just a regurgitation of bands who, in my opinion, are not as good. I know they are capable of better because they kept putting out awesome music for the first 7(?) years as a band, before they started being influenced. 4) I assume you were making presumptions based on the last two things I addressed. For instance, "go drool over Bou," you assume I know who Bou is, or am the type of person that puts importance on the appearance of artists I like, ie. "drool" over them. Both presumptions that are false.
2+3)Being influenced by and making a point to sound like a band are two very different things, that's why I disagree with you. I don't feel as though Diru does sound like other bands, not by a broad terms. Some songs, yes, and they were on Marrow for me. But even on Marrow there still were songs on there that were just plain Diru.
4) I really am sorry it sounded as if I were referring to you here, I did mean it as a general statement. One that I know isn't true for everyone, but I see comments on how adorable and cute that boy is constantly, I felt he was the best person to make my example.
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:38 pm
The Lady Eros namida_no_chi 1) I said nothing about changing the reality of his comment, just that it carried ungrateful connotations. Which if you think about it, telling the people who got you where you are to take a hike for any reason is. 2) Western audience as in American/European (if it will help to better clarify, we'll say western = the type of countries they've been touring in post WTD). I knew Karou was an LP fan, which is what made it even easier for me to see the similarities between WTD and that particular band. So if you agree that bands like LP and various Family Values bands have influenced the direction of their sound, why do you also seem to disagree with me when I say it sounds as though Diru is trying to appeal to those same audiences (that in conjunction with the touring in American/European countries)? 3) I 'knock' them for making music that sounds like that of other bands. Forget influence, it goes beyond influence when your entire album sounds like someone else's. And in this instance, that particular sound just happens to be the main reason I stopped listening to the bands they are emulating, and started listening to Diru. They had their own unique take on rock, their own unique style, but now it is as though their style is just a regurgitation of bands who, in my opinion, are not as good. I know they are capable of better because they kept putting out awesome music for the first 7(?) years as a band, before they started being influenced. 4) I assume you were making presumptions based on the last two things I addressed. For instance, "go drool over Bou," you assume I know who Bou is, or am the type of person that puts importance on the appearance of artists I like, ie. "drool" over them. Both presumptions that are false.
2+3)Being influenced by and making a point to sound like a band are two very different things, that's why I disagree with you. I don't feel as though Diru does sound like other bands, not by a broad terms. Some songs, yes, and they were on Marrow for me. But even on Marrow there still were songs on there that were just plain Diru.
4) I really am sorry it sounded as if I were referring to you here, I did mean it as a general statement. One that I know isn't true for everyone, but I see comments on how adorable and cute that boy is constantly, I felt he was the best person to make my example. 1) being supportive through a "rough patch"? Only an ungrateful person would complain about people spending money on them out of loyalty. 2+3) How can you tell whether they're being influenced or making a point to sound like a band when the bottom line is that they sound like other bands (again, touring in western countries casts more suspicion on the reasoning behind this sudden sound change)? And how can you say they don't sound like other bands when you just said in your last post that you feel other bands like LP and Family Values bands have influenced their sound? What I bothered to listen to of marrow (about the first minute or so of each song, nothing really pulled me in to listen further) sounded just like WTD to me, not only did the songs vary little, but they sounded like other music that other people are already doing/have done. Except maybe a little more hardcore. Sure there may be a couple of songs that still show a touch of the band's own style (like Machiavellism, probably my favorite off of WTD), but it has still for the most part gone the way of 3-4 chord progressions, way too overdriven guitars (like to the point where they no longer sound like guitars but someone hitting a metal trashcan, so that melody is almost indistinguishable), and of course Kyo is Kyo, but that's nothing new. 4) Toshiya's cute too, but does Bou rock hard? xd
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:32 pm
namida_no_chi 1) being supportive through a "rough patch"? Only an ungrateful person would complain about people spending money on them out of loyalty. 2+3) How can you tell whether they're being influenced or making a point to sound like a band when the bottom line is that they sound like other bands (again, touring in western countries casts more suspicion on the reasoning behind this sudden sound change)? And how can you say they don't sound like other bands when you just said in your last post that you feel other bands like LP and Family Values bands have influenced their sound? What I bothered to listen to of marrow (about the first minute or so of each song, nothing really pulled me in to listen further) sounded just like WTD to me, not only did the songs vary little, but they sounded like other music that other people are already doing/have done. Except maybe a little more hardcore. Sure there may be a couple of songs that still show a touch of the band's own style (like Machiavellism, probably my favorite off of WTD), but it has still for the most part gone the way of 3-4 chord progressions, way too overdriven guitars (like to the point where they no longer sound like guitars but someone hitting a metal trashcan, so that melody is almost indistinguishable), and of course Kyo is Kyo, but that's nothing new. 4) Toshiya's cute too, but does Bou rock hard? xd
2)I think it's a matter of opinion really, there. To me, WtD and Marrow sound almost nothing alike. Yes, the style can be similar, but with Marrow the problem I felt was that half of the songs on the album all could have just been one single song. Either way, is it because of influence or want to be more western? I don't think either of us can give the real answer, we just go by what we think is really going on. I can't say they probably don't regard the western audience at all, we know they don't, they tour out here. It's my personal opinion that saying they want only to appeal to the western audience, rather than be themselves, is just too far. Perhaps they are doing both things, no? Maybe the influence plus their want to reach out to a more global audience has melded with their evolved tastes in music since the VK days. The only way we'll get to really know is if someone asked them, and they were all willing to give a totally honest answer.
3) I think he rather looks like an imp, Bou that is. x) And from what I've heard from the band he used to play in? I wasn't impressed at all. cx The boy encapsulates a big trend in VK. The member everyone thinks is so cute, and that's all they talk about.
Toto is adorable of course too, but the guy's completely badass on his bass and we know it.
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:18 pm
The Lady Eros 1) Rough patch versus an entire change from what they used to be, I'm not sure. Some people would call Diru's 'rough patch' to have started at Vulgar, and is still going. That's half of their career or so.
2)I think it's a matter of opinion really, there. To me, WtD and Marrow sound almost nothing alike. Yes, the style can be similar, but with Marrow the problem I felt was that half of the songs on the album all could have just been one single song. Either way, is it because of influence or want to be more western? I don't think either of us can give the real answer, we just go by what we think is really going on. I can't say they probably don't regard the western audience at all, we know they don't, they tour out here. It's my personal opinion that saying they want only to appeal to the western audience, rather than be themselves, is just too far. Perhaps they are doing both things, no? Maybe the influence plus their want to reach out to a more global audience has melded with their evolved tastes in music since the VK days. The only way we'll get to really know is if someone asked them, and they were all willing to give a totally honest answer.
3) I think he rather looks like an imp, Bou that is. x) And from what I've heard from the band he used to play in? I wasn't impressed at all. cx The boy encapsulates a big trend in VK. The member everyone thinks is so cute, and that's all they talk about.
Toto is adorable of course too, but the guy's completely badass on his bass and we know it. 1) You know, I've heard a couple of people say that about Vulgar, and admittedly, it wasn't quite as impressive as previous albums. However, I really think they still maintained their own pretty well. Plus having been around since pre-vulgar, I really don't think people were raising the "westernization" (or whatever you will call it) argument like they are now. I'm sure people aren't just decidedly complaining out of nowhere, for no reason. 2) Oh I agree, I don't think WTD and Marrow really sounded alike (marrow being more hard-core, whereas WTD was more Linkin Park-esque), but there were some similar elements as far as the composition (a heavy reliance on chord progressions, little to no guitar solos to break up the songs, that sort of thing). It would seem that if indeed they are influenced, it would have been from two different types of bands in each album. I also felt that WTD had the same problem with sounding like one single song, I would guess because of the things I mentioned with the composition, plus the fact it is almost like they don't try to vary it up style-wise between songs. And it's true, we can only speculate as to the reasoning behind their sound change. But there are a couple of things which go without speculation; they sound a lot like American/European bands compared to what they sounded like in say, Kisou, and they are now touring those countries. I don't think their sole purpose in this is to get Western fans. But they certainly seem to be reaching out to those audiences by touring, and the change in sound that is similar to the type of music already widely accepted in those countries. That is why I say they are trying to appeal to western audiences. I'm pretty sure that as far as the 'mainstream' rock scene, some things that go well in Japan are not much liked in western countries. I think this became evident when they got booed off stage in their first(?) Germany tour, pre-marrow. 3) XD I just had to look Bou up since where talking about him, and I must say he isn't exactly someone I would oogle. I mean he pulls off the cute little girl look well, but eh. Now, Gackt I would oogle all day, but I do not pretend to be a fan or like his music. I just think he's a really handsome guy. >.> *shame* Oh for sure Totchi's badass, and apparently has good writting talent. I refer of course to Bottom of Death Valley, I love watching that one live to actually witness his awesomeness on the bass. Which reminds me: whatever happened to the days of Diru's individual members writing songs? Things had much more character when that happened, because the songs reflected the individual. Now it seems like everything mashed up under the credit of "Music: Dir en Grey" [/random]
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:23 pm
namida_no_chi KyotoPsycho I have to say i agree 100 percent with eros! and this entire idea that they started playing in a more "western sound" to appeal to western audiences can be fired back at people by saying they played in visual clothing to grab the attention of the japanese fanbase. I think that that would be more true than the idea of selling out to western audiences because they were already so popular as a visual band if they wanted to keep the fanbase happy and make money they could have played it safe! Kyo saying that if you dont like the music dont come to the gig is brilliant! good for him he always says stuff like that he also said very early on that fans who stand at the back and dont move annoy him. If you dont like it tuff shizz stop moaning about it and go listen to music you enjoy or are you that bored you feel the need to complain about stuff move on stop complaning and wasting your own time and money its simple. But that's just it. So what if they adopted some look to draw attention? Unless you are a very shallow fan who isn't worth mention because you only listen to a band based on their looks, whatever look that they had shouldn't matter. The point was that they were a band, and they had a musical style all their own (imo), and each song had its own unique quality. The problem with your observation is that in emulating western bands, their SOUND is now affected, sound being the most important thing considering they are a musical band, not a fashion troupe. Adopting a VK look to draw attention, is really not the same as imitating other people's music when your whole purpose of being a band is making your own music. As a working SOUND ENGINEER I would like to say you assumption that I only listen to a band based on looks is pretty stupid and the fact you assume this can only mean u cant read very well. I am indifferent to their new more toned down style but the way you put your arguement across is that you perfer their visual days, and as each album they released was so different I can only assume that this is because they appealed to you as " more japanese " and this makes u feel unique and special *news flash* Music they played before and after the make off cam off had influence form all sorts of things I dont think they sound alike to other bands anymore now than before at all they had british punk sounds in early albums and have indian influence in their latest music so what exactly is your problem because the people claiming that their music is all american sounding are just plain childish fans who are throwing dummys out of their prams because they think they were special when they siad they liked dir en grey when nobody knew them. And as for being a fan not worth a mention I would day im a much better fan than you are as all you seem to do is b***h about the band you claim to love.
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:37 pm
KyotoPsycho As a working SOUND ENGINEER I would like to say you assumption that I only listen to a band based on looks is pretty stupid and the fact you assume this can only mean u cant read very well. I never made an assumption that you are anything. First off I said you in general terms, not "You, KyotoPsycho." In fact I never referred specifically to you in any fashion, especially not on the matter of why YOU may or may not listen to a band; I don't know why YOU listen to band, and honestly don't care. Secondly, notice the modifier I added before mention of liking a band based on their looks: Unless you are a very shallow fan who isn't worth mention because you only listen to a band based on their looks. I wasn't talking about you specifically, just fans who like bands because of their looks. If this includes you, then yes, I am talking to you, but if it does not, then you should have agreed with my statement that looks don't matter unless of course one is a shallow fan. I can tell by your posts that you are not a working ENGLISH ENGINEER. Quote: I am indifferent to their new more toned down style but the way you put your arguement across is that you perfer their visual days, I prefer their visual days because of the music. Actually, I only really started to part ways with their sound after WTD, which really their visual days ended with Kisou. So no, looks are not a factor. Quote: and as each album they released was so different I can only assume that this is because they appealed to you as " more japanese " and this makes u feel unique and special Actually it's more a matter of them now being more "american," and since I don't really like american rock that is a problem for me. It has nothing to do with feeling "special." Why? Is that something you try to obtain by listening to Japanese bands? Quote: *news flash* Music they played before and after the make off cam off had influence form all sorts of things I dont think they sound alike to other bands anymore now than before at all they had british punk sounds in early albums and have indian influence in their latest music so what exactly is your problem because the people claiming that their music is all american sounding are just plain childish fans who are throwing dummys out of their prams because they think they were special when they siad they liked dir en grey when nobody knew them. I really don't understand this because of poor grammar, so I'll try to reply to the best of my ability. For me it has nothing to do with being special (perhaps you're projecting this about yourself into other people's views), I just don't like their new sound. It is just the same kind of sound that I wanted to escape by picking up bands like Diru. If anyone is being childish, I'd say it was people like you who just assume the worst of fans who don't like their new sound and become hostile, without understanding their actual reasons for doing so. Quote: And as for being a fan not worth a mention I would day im a much better fan than you are as all you seem to do is b***h about the band you claim to love. Again: I said people who only care about a band's look are fans not worth mention. Whether this includes you or not I really don't care (you seem to continue lumping yourself in with the "shallow fans" in this exclusive statement I made through lack of understanding it). Nor do I care if you think you're someone who can go around telling people they're not as good as you in some way while knowing little to nothing about them. FYI, when the topic is on any of their music pre-WTD (which is MOST of it), my talk of them is positive. However, the discussion is an aspect of their music which I don't like, hence I speak negatively of it. Congratulations on the broad, uninformed, and WRONG assumption about how all I do is "b***h" about them. Maybe you should try reading some of my posts to Eros BEFORE you do it again?
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:15 am
I can remember your posts from long before this thread before i quit then returned to gaia I can remember you trying to patronise fans long ago with pretty much the same arguement.
All it boils down to is that you say you perfer their old music and dont like their new stuff right ? So if there is talk of the new stuff you always have to voice your opinion, which is fair enough because your entitiled to it. But you always seem to be saying that your view of the music becoming more western after a certain point is solid gold fact and thats just not true at all!
They had western influence in very early albumns and also have eastern influence in very new works!
Also you will make a statement against some person or a group of people who share the same thinking and try and get out of it on a technicality. Like you saying that " if you are some one who listens to bands becasue of the way they look" you will then say it was meant generaly but then if someone makes a point back at you not using your name directly you will do the same thing becasue its just the way things come across. You will then simply take what they have said and do the 2 thats not me its you " thing that my kid sister does >_<.
Like most fans i know who say they perfer the visual days its normally about the " Visual aspect" not the musical aspect because in technique they have improved in my opinion and if the style has changed that is true of nearly every band. When i hear fans saying they dont like something japanese because it sounds american now i am left to assume the worst. How I would in anyway have lead you to think i only listen to japanese music becasue it makes me feel special is beyond me. You just took wat i said and said no you do that not me. Im not sure why.
I ahte the new vs old thing it always splits fans right down the middle. I think it is wrong for you to make assumptions about the band however and this is what annoys me greatly.
End of the day some like it others dont. I just get very upset when people make assumptions as to why the musical change has occured as its something that can never be settled in a simple we can disect the brain of each member and find the intention.
I dont care if we were talking about dir en grey or the village people either if i feel someone has assumed that i have no passion for music and only for image this will upset me greatly i take pride in my sound. You can say you dont direct things at people specificly but i think sometimes you do if you know you are or not its the way it comes across.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:26 pm
I'm a fan of both eras to be honest. I started listening to Dir en Grey with a mix of The Final, Saku, Cage, and Yokan. I love the new stuff (Vulgar and on), but I like all of it. The only song by them I really dont like is Filth.
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:36 pm
KyotoPsycho I can remember your posts from long before this thread before i quit then returned to gaia I can remember you trying to patronise fans long ago with pretty much the same arguement. Maybe because my opinion hasn't changed? And I don't see how I'm patronizing anyone when I'm not the one who started the thread on the new vs. old topic, and in my original post I wasn't really addressing anyone except in agreeing with whoever made the thread (which would not be patronizing). Quote: All it boils down to is that you say you perfer their old music and dont like their new stuff right ? So if there is talk of the new stuff you always have to voice your opinion, which is fair enough because your entitiled to it. Shea, especially when the person who made the thread seemed to have similar opinions. I only dropped in to agree. I voice my opinions on the new stuff because I find it nothing to listen to, yet Diru (their old stuff anyway) remains one of my favorite J-rock groups. I wish their new stuff was something I liked. Quote: But you always seem to be saying that your view of the music becoming more western after a certain point is solid gold fact and thats just not true at all! solid gold fact =/= opinion. As Eros earlier, we cannot know why or why not they had this change in sound, so nothing is a solid fact. But many people do seem to notice their music sounding like other bands (ie, linkin park) after a certain point, so it's not just my opinion. Quote: They had western influence in very early albumns and also have eastern influence in very new works! If you want to get technical, their whole genre of music is western influence, because rock n roll was born out of western countries. But up until a few albums ago, they still sounded like Dir en grey, not linkin Park or some Family Values band. Quote: Also you will make a statement against some person or a group of people who share the same thinking and try and get out of it on a technicality. A technicality? like... English? I don't try to 'get out of' anything I say. I still believe people who like bands based on their looks are shallow fans (and you seem to agree on this point, so I don't see what your qualm is). Quote: Like you saying that " if you are some one who listens to bands becasue of the way they look" you will then say it was meant generaly but then if someone makes a point back at you not using your name directly you will do the same thing becasue its just the way things come across. You will then simply take what they have said and do the 2 thats not me its you " thing that my kid sister does >_<. So as I said before: "I wasn't talking about you specifically, just fans who like bands because of their looks. If this includes you, then yes, I am talking to you." But aparently the remark I made about shallow fans doesn't include you, because you don't listen to Diru just because they look good. So again, I don't see why you're trying to defend a group of people (shallow fans) that you also don't like. Apprently it is you, since you made false assertions (that I'm calling you something I don't know or care if you are) out of not understanding my post. Not my problem. I still stand by what I said about shallow fans. Quote: Like most fans i know who say they perfer the visual days its normally about the " Visual aspect" not the musical aspect because in technique they have improved in my opinion and if the style has changed that is true of nearly every band. Well it's your OPINION their technique is better. It is my OPINION that their technique is worse for the following reasons: Their music now heavily relies on drab chord progressions and therefore are less melodical, There are little to no solos anymore to add interest or character to the songs, they also rely heavily on way-too-overdrivern guitars so that the melody is hard to make out and the guitars just sound like metal trashcans, most of their songs follow this same format so it is difficult to tell them apart, and these are all things that Western bands have already been doing for years. Quote: When i hear fans saying they dont like something japanese because it sounds american now i am left to assume the worst. Again, because I don't like american rock for the reasons I named above. Not because it's "makes me feel special." Quote: How I would in anyway have lead you to think i only listen to japanese music becasue it makes me feel special is beyond me. You just took wat i said and said no you do that not me. Im not sure why. I don't think you do. You seem to think I do, so I said I don't, and then ASKED you if you do. Because I can see no other reason for you to make such a presumption about me, so I wondered if maybe that's your motivation, because you certainly didn't get that idea from anything I said. Quote: I ahte the new vs old thing it always splits fans right down the middle. I think it is wrong for you to make assumptions about the band however and this is what annoys me greatly. Again, I didn't start the thread, and you replied to ME. You think this conflict is so much better for those of us who don't like their new stuff? It isn't, because in most cases we have lost the band that we liked a lot. I am making assumptions about them no more than you are in saying their "technique is improved" and they are not westernized. We've already established there are no solid facts, so anything anyone has to say is conjecture. So if you want to be mad at me about making assumptions (having an opinion is really what it is), then be annoyed at yourself also and then some for being hypocritical. Quote: End of the day some like it others dont. I just get very upset when people make assumptions as to why the musical change has occured as its something that can never be settled in a simple we can disect the brain of each member and find the intention. Or just look at their actions. You know the old saying "actions speak louder than words" I'm sure. And again, if you want to get technical, my assumptions (opinion) about why the music is no more an assumption on your part by saying that isn't why they did this or that. We really don't know who is "right," so we both make assumptions to say it is or isn't. Stop being so hypocritical. Quote: I dont care if we were talking about dir en grey or the village people either if i feel someone has assumed that i have no passion for music and only for image this will upset me greatly i take pride in my sound. You can say you dont direct things at people specificly but i think sometimes you do if you know you are or not its the way it comes across. Oh, so we have to bring the Village People into this now? xd But seriously... As I already said several times, I made a statement about people hwo do that. If it includes you, they YES I am talking about you. I didn't say "and you, Kyoto Psycho, are a shallow fan." I wouldn't say that because I don't know anything about you or your motivations, nor do I care. You can take it or leave it, either it applies to you or it doesn't. And apparently you agree with what I said about shallow fans, so even IF it did apply to you, you'd have no room to complain about it.
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:48 pm
The Lady Eros Firstly, what Kyo said makes perfect sense. Why go to a concert to hear music you don't like? Are you going to go see Dir en grey this September and hope they play only tracks that date to Macabre? Kyo has every right to defend the direction he and his band are going, and it takes no stretch of imagination to see why he'd be irked people keep bitching about how their VK days were so much better when they've dropped them off so long ago now.
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:14 pm
This thread is hilarious :']
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:25 am
This was a lovely sort of topic to come back to.
I've only skimmed over what's been said already, so I'm not going to attempt to jump into this conversation (?).
These guys went from tons of make-up and crazy costumes (Garden) to costumes that were less busy/downplayed makeup (Macabre, ain't afraid), to almost no makeup and very normal-looking clothing (Kasumi), and they've just evolved into what they are now.
Once they built up fame with their first couple albums, they began a very slow descent from VK to normality. Nowadays--as I see it--they're just being themselves look-wise and letting the "metal" reputation they picked up during FVT get to them and their music.
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:04 pm
stalebreadcrums This thread is hilarious :'] Agreed 3nodding
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