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chikushou
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:49 pm


I figured, seeing as we're intellectual perverts, each with various specialties we could use a thread dedicated to history. So, if you have any sort of historical thing you've researched, or sexual overtones you've found in some event or custom, post it here.

So, this isn't about your own, personal sexual history. It's about history with sexualness. 3nodding
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:50 pm


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chikushou
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Oni no Tenshi
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:12 pm


The weird phallus things that got stuck up on the front doors of houses were called "hermes."

Here is a picture: http://www.insecula.com/oeuvre/photo_ME0000081340.html

Something else to add to the Greek sex-history: older men were seen as the highest of society and they could have sex with anyone, younger men, women, concubines, and slaves. The lower down you were on the "ladder" the less you got to choose if you wanted to have sex or not (that's right, folks, Greek men raped a LOT).

There was also the practice of paederasty, in which an older man "woos" a young teenage boy, takes the boy under his teacher's wing, and then has sex with him and becomes his lover.

....O_o Oye, so the "teacher/student" fantasy has been around quite awhile, ne?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:39 am


Here's a little something from Japan's rich and diverse past for ya'll to chew on. *taken from Wikipedia*

==Ancient Japan==

The Japanese term ''nanshoku'' (男色) is the Japanese reading of the same characters in Chinese, which literally mean "male colours." The character 色 still has the meaning of sexual pleasure in both China and Japan. This term was widely used to refer to male-male sex in ancient Japan.

According to Gary Leupp, the ancient Japanese associated ''nanshoku'' with China, a country from which borrowed ideas which became the basis for much of Japanese high culture, including their writing system (kanji, Chinese characters). The Japanese ''nanshoku'' tradition drew heavily on that of China (please see Homosexuality in China), and to a more limited extent, that of Korea.

A variety of obscure literary references to same-sex love exist in ancient sources, but many of these are so subtle as to be unreliable; another consideration is that declarations of affection for friends of the same sex were also common.

Nevertheless, references do exist, and they become more numerous in the Heian Period, roughly the 11th century. In ''Genji Monogatari'' (源氏物語, ''The Tale of Genji''), written in the early 11th century, men are frequently moved by the beauty of youths. In one scene the hero is rejected by a lady and sleeps instead with her brother:

"Genji pulled the boy down beside him . . . Genji, for his part, or so
one is informed, found the boy more attractive than his chilly
sister."


''The Tale of Genji'' is a novel (often considered the world's first), but there exist several Heian diaries which contain references to homosexual acts as well. Some of these also contain references to Emperors involved in homosexual relationships and to "handsome boys retained for sexual purposes" by Emperors.

In other literary works can be found references to what Leupp has called "problems of gender identity," such as the story of a youth falling in love with a girl who is actually a cross-dressing male.

===Monastic same-sex love===

Buddhist monasteries appear to have been early centers of homosexual activity in ancient Japan. It was popularly said that Kukai, the founder of the Shingon Buddhist sect, introduced nanshoku into Japan after returning from Tang China in the 9th century. However he does not discuss this theme in any of his major works. It should also be noted that ''any'' sexual activity was expressly forbidden by the Vinaya or code of monastic discipline for Buddhist monks, and Kukai was an enthusiastic upholder of the Vinaya. At the same time, Mount Koya, the seat of Kukai's monastery, became a by-word for same-sex love.

However neither Shinto or the Japanese interpretation of Confucianism contained any prohibitions. Enough monks seem to have felt their vows of chastity did not apply to same-sex relations so that stories of affairs between monks and young acolytes, known as ''Chigo Monogatari'' were quite popular, and such affairs were lightly joked about, when the passions did not rise to the level of violence, which was not uncommon. Jesuits reported aghast on the 'sodomy' that occurred among Buddhist clergy.

===Military same-sex love===

From religious circles, same-sex love spread to the warrior class, where it was customary for a young samurai to apprentice to an older and more experienced man. The young samurai would be his lover for many years. The practice was known as shudo, the ''way of the young,'' and was held in high esteem by the warrior class.

===Middle class same-sex love===
As Japanese society became pacified, the middle classes adopted many of the practices of the warrior class, in the case of shudo giving it a more mercantile interpretation. Young kabuki actors, known as kagema, became the rage, they were celebrated in much the same way as modern media stars are today, and were much sought after by wealthy patrons, who would vie with each other to purchase their favors

The Beautiful Way of the Samurai

===Art of same-sex love===
These activities were the subject of countless literary works, most of which remain to be translated. Likewise, many of the greatest artists of the period, such as Hokusai and Hiroshige, prided themselves in documenting such loves in their prints, known as ukiyo-e, ''pictures of the floating world,'' and where they had an erotic tone, shunga, or ''pictures of spring"

The Japanese Hall

Koiyuki
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Lord Vyce
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:17 am


Heh, I knew it! Proof that men and/their organs are as capable of protection as they are of destruction.

Anyways, this is really cool. I think I'll edit this post with some info once I start looking. For now, this little tidbit to enhance the info on greek adult-yougn male relationships.

While they were basically a teacher/student pair, the way these start is a bit strange. See, not many of these pairings start as "wooing" per se, but as an exchange. The older males, requested sex, giving wisdom, some wealth and miniscule status in return. It was a bit like a business, but no money was directly involved.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:48 am


Lord Vyce
Heh, I knew it! Proof that men and/their organs are as capable of protection as they are of destruction.
Ah, yes. Vyce always likes to know the capabilities of his testicles, eh?

chikushou
Crew


Lord Vyce
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:53 am


chikushou
Lord Vyce
Heh, I knew it! Proof that men and/their organs are as capable of protection as they are of destruction.
Ah, yes. Vyce always likes to know the capabilities of his testicles, eh?


Yes, Always. I have named mine "weapons of mass impregnation and fun"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:10 am


I learned (umm... yesterday!) that in the 16th Century (I think just England, but it could well have been everywhere... I'll edit this post with more facts next week when I have the details & reference with me) if you were betrothed to be married & you had sex, that constituted a legal marriage.

For the lower classes the betrothal often counted as the marriage as they usually couldn't afford an actual wedding.

Uopper class made a huge show of it, so presumably if they were legally married via sex, they would still have the wedding just to show off.

But yeah, like I said, I'll update next week with more detail & the references.

JewelsSparkle


PhantomPhoenix0

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:42 pm


In the Viking Society, a marrage wasnt considered legal until at least 6 witnessees see the couple go to bed together.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:38 pm


The Greek love theory could explain a few things about Anne Rice's character, Marius actually. Yes, he is a Roman, but often Greek culture influenced that of Roman culture, so perhaps that carried over? But yes, presuming over a fictional character! rolleyes

There was a similar idea of gay relationships here Koi where I live. I did research and came across it! Hehe. Basically, while Black men were housed in mass single-sexed compounds here (in South Africa), on the gold mines, they often took on a "mine wife" which originally was a younger male who would eventually cross-dress and impersonate a woman and be the older and more experienced man's "wife". He would do anything and the sort for this man in return for protection, food and benefits as often the younger males had lower salaries working more menial jobs than the more complex jobs that paid more money. Eventually when the compound system allowed the Black men to take their real wives or female lovers, the "mine-wife" turned around to include women, whom would often according to ethnic traditions, be the second, third of nth wife.

madamfluff


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:09 am


Lord Vyce
chikushou
Lord Vyce
Heh, I knew it! Proof that men and/their organs are as capable of protection as they are of destruction.
Ah, yes. Vyce always likes to know the capabilities of his testicles, eh?


Yes, Always. I have named mine "weapons of mass impregnation and fun"


"Fire ZEE Missles!"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:26 am


Oni-Angel
Lord Vyce
chikushou
Lord Vyce
Heh, I knew it! Proof that men and/their organs are as capable of protection as they are of destruction.
Ah, yes. Vyce always likes to know the capabilities of his testicles, eh?


Yes, Always. I have named mine "weapons of mass impregnation and fun"


"Fire ZEE Missles!"


"But, I am le tired..." rofl

Lord Vyce
Captain

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