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I'm sorry if I sound simple, but this crap is flat-out stupid. Most of these things have no grounds at all! Most of this looks like the result of gulibility. I'm not going to dive deep and make sources. Partly because I'm lazy, but mostly because my computer sucks and would die if I went through that many searches. Let us begin....

NOTE: I'm not going to quote who said these things, but just take them as general statements.


1. The "Demon Horns" (Original name), dubbed here as the "Rock Salute." The demon horns gesture was orignaly made by a popular rock artist. Since then, it has exploded in popularity, and, like all things that do that, has been changed. It is a gesture given in approval of rock music or to tell somebody to "rock on." It is not simply a demonic "salute" to Satan. It is an icon of an entire genre and culture. Spike said that it is ".... always used in the rock industry as a salute to Satan." That is simply ignorance and an opinion.

2. Amy Grant being a "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing." Amy Grant is one of the most notable Christian artists. A little food for fact, most music videos are made by the director and writer with only some feedback from the artist. Most of the time, the artist just picks an idea from a list that the director and writer give to them. Did you realize that teh Jewish Star of David, their most notable symbol, is in fact a six-pointed star. Does this mean that all Jews are worshipers of Satan? Last time I checked, they worshiped God. P.S. I'm pretty sure that a hexogram has distinguished lines for it's outline. The ones on Grant's hands are solid with no lines.

3. Just because a Christian artist associates with a secular artist, it doesn't mean that they are hypocrites. Several of my good friends who have a local Christian band play in bar rooms all the time. This is an act of ministry for them. They are doing as God commands us and reaching out. UnderOATH is in the Warped Tour with many secular bands. Doesn't mean that they have disowned God. Because a band appreciates an anti-Christian band, it doesn't mean they are anti-Christian. I am a musician, and as such have a great deal of respect for music. I don't like all music, but I still can appreciate it for what it is. Music is an extremely complex thing. You have to have a great deal of knowledge of it in order to write a decent song. You can respect many artists simply for their unique use of musical theory (the laws and guidelines to music) in their music. People like Marilyn Manson have a huge impact on the musical world and for that, demand respect. You can talk with them but not believe what they believe. P.S. I have an aquantence who labels himself as a Satanist. He is a cool person, doesn't do wrong to people, and his favorite music is Christian Hardcore!!

4. Spike said that rock was originally a Satanic genre. Did you know that it was called this because its rough, non-conforming sound caused many traditional people to become scared of its difference. Christianity was once considered a dangerous cult because of its difference. Puritans had a strict code that they followed. Anybody who didn't follow that code was considered evil and, during the Harlem Witch Trials (caused by greed and envy, not by actual witches) were even hung.

5. So DC Talk covered a secular song. So what? Do you have any idea how often songs are covered? ALL THE TIME. My friend's band (the one I mentioned earlier) covered some songs by Boston, and recently covered "Tribute" by Tenacious D. Both secular bands, but they didn't play any "bad" music.

6. Spike, when you quoted some of "Terrible Lie," you didn't capitalize "God." That could be sacreligion. Does that mean that you are sacreligios? No. It means you made a typo (and at this time, I would ask yuo to excuse all of my typing errors. My spell checker isn't working sweatdrop ) So many things are blown out of proportion when they, in reality, are nothing.

7. I read most of the article referenced with Spike's post on Bush being a bonesman. It says that the groups goal is to get many of its members into high positions. Do they realize that the "club" is located at Yale? Do you know who comes from Yale? That's right, influential people. People with enough knowledge and drive to make those positions. Is that just a coincidence, or am I retarded? (Excuse my lack of Americanism by not being PC and saying "Challenged" stare )

8. This thread has turned into a trolling thread. In case you haven't noticed, that is not the point of this thread. If you are going to continue this, create a new thread. From this point on, return to the original purpose of the thread.

I was going to write out a long rebuttal, but my head is really starting to hurt after looking at all these pentagrams and hexagrams. I'm getting stressed out between talking about Catholicism with my mother, a friend of mine asking me for advice, and the fact that I'm half-asleep and my eyes hurt. I do not stand down from my position, and I may respond to that in a new thread later, but for now, I reeeaaally have a headache. I'll respond to it in a new thread tomorrow. I know that sounds like a stupid excuse, but I don't really care what you think at this point, as I've lost much of my patience. I'll pray on this. I also noticed Anastasis edit his post from "please go kill yourself plzkthnx" to "Get off the internet plzkthx." Just a little thing that I noticed...I'll also address your post in the new topic, since you've totally taken my position out of context.

On topic: As for my convictions, I'm starting to have my own. I believe the government is corrupted beyond belief, and that Jesus is coming soon. CNN is brainwashing garbage, and so is the rest of the media. The government controls the media, and you can tell that elections are rigged even if you don't dig too deep. They'll put something on the news, saying that this particular candidate is good and that a lot of people like him, then, what a shock, they win. Funny that they also find excuses to insult those who don't buy it, such as in the U.S., people who didn't support Obama are labeled by many as 'racist' (no, I'm not saying everyone does this, nor that this is always the way they do it, so don't yap at me telling me I'm generalizing).

ok, ur not talking bad about bush ru? cuz that not nice...... stare

Oh, you should see what Spike said on the page before this.

Also, if you need to reply to any posts that are part of the debate we were having here about music, do so on the music debate thread... we got a little side-tracked. But yes. I was.

Lol, that's okay.