|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:21 pm
dancing-in-the-streets I don't think it was the other side of the discussion that angered me so much as the way she said "it divides those with REEEEAL testimonies from all those stupid people who have never been tested before and can't handle it. If you think I'm being mean, it just means I'm right. Here, let me liken myself to Nephi for you...." also known as "I'm better than you because I don't question." I'd have let it alone if not for that- you guys see how rarely I post. But that was absolutely infuriating. The differing opinions didn't garner a response from me, the snide pridefulness did. Edited by Me because it was really really not nice. But the gist... the more Christ-like gist, is that the FIRST post in the thread was far from being kind or humble so... yeah. And I... grrrr... I am not going to say.... I think.... grrrrr...
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:55 am
Rather than mumbling incoherently, hear is something actually USEFUL for me to do! Sorry about the other day. I was in a bad mood. I apologize for all I offended. sweatdrop
This petition is only to be signed, I am sorry to say, by citizens of California. (So I can't.) BUT IF YOU ARE, and if you agree and that the Governator needs to step up and start supporting the will of the people (hello, they VOTED. Does the majority and democracy mean nothing anymore?) instead of the will of angry mobs then please sign.
If you are a California citizen, please act immediately to sign this petition to Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger who is urging the California Supreme Court to overthrow the results of the recent free and fair election which passed Proposition 8, defining marriage as between a man and a woman.
In addition...
THE FACTS:
1. Mormons make up only 2% of the population of California. There are approximately 750,000 LDS out of a total population of approximately 36 million.
2. If one estimates that 250,000 LDS are registered voters (the rest being children), then out of a total of 5,661,583 yes votes, LDS voters made up 4.4% of the Yes vote and 2.3% of the total Proposition 8 vote (11,050,301).
3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) donated no money to the Yes on 8 campaign (except for a nominal, and legal, in-kind donation of $2,078.97, to cover the travel expenses of leaders coming from Utah for a meeting). Individual members of the Church were encouraged to support the Yes on 8 efforts and, exercising their constitutional right to free speech, donated whatever they felt like donating.
4. The No on 8 campaign raised more money than the Yes on 8 campaign. Unofficial estimates put No on 8 at $38 million and Yes on 8 at $36 million, making it the most expensive non-presidential election in the country.
5. Advertising messages for the Yes on 8 campaign are based on case law and real-life situations. The No on 8 supporters have insisted that the Yes on 8 messaging is based on lies. Every Yes on 8 claim is supported.
6. The majority of our friends and neighbors voted Yes on 8. Los Angeles County voted in favor of Proposition 8. Ventura County voted in favor of Proposition 8. San Diego County voted in favor of Proposition 8. Orange County voted in favor of Proposition 8. San Luis Obispo County voted in favor of Proposition 8. Sacramento County voted in favor of Proposition 8. Fresno County voted in favor of Proposition 8. And the list goes on and on: Merced, San Bernardino, Riverside, Mariposa, Tulare, Imperial, etc.
7. African Americans overwhelmingly supported Yes on 8. Exit polls show that 70% of Black voters chose Yes on 8. This was interesting because the majority of these voters voted for President-elect Obama. No on 8 supporters had assumed that Obama voters would vote No on 8.
8. The majority of Latino voters voted Yes on 8. Exit polls show that the majority of Latinos supported Yes on 8 and cited religious beliefs (assumed to be primarily Catholic).
9. The Yes on 8 coalition was a broad spectrum of religious organizations. Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, Orthodox Jews, Muslims - all supported Yes on 8. It is estimated that there are 10 million Catholics and 10 million Protestants in California. Mormons were a tiny fraction of the population represented by Yes on 8 coalition members.
10. Though the Church urged its members to "do all [they] can to support the proposed constitutional amendment," not all Mormons voted in favor of Proposition 8. Our faith accords that each person be allowed to choose for him or her self. Church leaders have asked members to treat other members with "civility, respect and love," despite their differing views.
11. The Church did not violate the principal of separation of church and state. This principle is derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, although it has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court in recent years. The LDS Church is under no obligation to refrain from participating in the political process, to the extent permitted by law. U.S. election law is very clear that Churches may not endorse candidates, but may support issues. The Church has always been very careful on this matter and occasionally (not often) chooses to support causes that it feels to be of a moral nature.
12. Supporters of Proposition 8 did exactly what the Constitution provides for all citizens: they exercised their First Amendment rights to speak out on an issue that concerned them, make contributions to a cause that they support, and then vote in the regular electoral process. For the most part, this seems to have been done in an open, fair, and civil way. Opponents of 8 have accused supporters of being bigots, liars, and worse. The fact is, we simply did what Americans do - we spoke up, we campaigned, and we voted.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:31 pm
In a little bit of a way what Schwarzenegger is doing make sense. I don't agree with him, but I think I see why he's doing it. The job of the executive branch is to enforce the laws of the land and the judicial branch created a law. It's technically his job to uphold the law.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:58 pm
What is Schwarzenegger doing? I'm avoiding the news because so much of it is offensive, stupid or both. (Not all of it. I saw a blog from a gay ACLU lawyer from New York protesting the anti-Mormon vitriol coming from some camps.)
Kipluck, thank you for that. Where did you get those facts from?
Everyone on both sides of the debate, remember this: The spirit of God cannot be with you when you are full of contention. Nor can you argue anyone into faith -- no matter what faith it is being discussed.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:05 pm
There's also a big something else happening here that I haven't seen raised.
I've been asked why Mormons would never allow homosexual marriage within their own church, and here's my take on it.
Marriage is the hallmark to enter into the Celestial Kingdom, to be like God. If we have to redefine what marriage is, then we are redefining what it means to become like God, on par with God while being of one will with Him. If we redefine marriage, we have to redefine God, and say, "There may be two males or two females that rule over our universe, not just a male and a possible female that is never spoken of due to her sanctity."
I don't think anything will happen any time soon for us. The church will have to represent itself in a slightly different light in the media in order to keep ourselves as just 'peculiar' in the media--not totally normal so that we don't lose our religion, yet not totally different so that we are not removed and not taken seriously at all for our beliefs. It makes me think that God always intended for his people to be a peculiar one.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:31 am
Someone answer me this.
How can someone who considers themselves feminist, or who considers women equal to men, support gay marriage?
Supporting gay marriage has the tacked-on effect of declaring that mothers have nothing special or important to bring to a child's life. It goes for fathers too but as Same Sex Attraction seems to affect more men than women so there are more male couples seeking to marry and adopt than female couples.
I'm a woman. I'm a knitter, a nurturer, a counselor, an organizer, a reader, a worrier... I'm many things. But one thing I'm not is unnecessary.
The only diversity a child needs is involved parents of both genders.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:06 pm
it's just a fact that the No on 8 people are sour that they lost, and they need to find someone to be angry at, and the Mormons were the loudest about the issue, so they chose us. How lucky are we to have the privilege. It shows that people are noticing our ways and reacting. For we all know that even the greatest ideals are lost if no one takes the time to notice.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|