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Author's intentions vs. Reader interpretation

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DevonyEvony

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:02 pm


I'm now in a course that looks into the works of J.R.R. Tolkien, which has exposed me to some very interesting discussion on the books and movies, and how interpretation was a major part of that creative process.

We were watching a few of the appendices that came on the DVD director's cut, and one of the discussions was how Tolkien himself said that his LoTR trilogy was not an allegory. The characters and situations were applicable, yes, but the story itself was not an allegory.
I was just going through SparkNotes to refresh a few plot lines in my brain when I came across their interpretation of Aragorn's journey into the Paths of the Dead.

SparkNotes
Tolkien often insisted that The Lord of the Rings was not an allegory—a symbolic or contemporary rendering of established tales and archetypes. Nevertheless, the mystical trip through the Paths of the Dead depicts Aragorn as a Christ figure...


Which made me cringe. I sat there thinking, no no NO! Tolkien himself, the author, the one who wrote the novel with his own hands said this is not an allegory. He has every right as the creator to say what his work means. That wee 'nevertheless' they tacked on in the beginning just annoys me to no end.

And yet there is another situation that bothers me as well: Rowling's little proclamation that Dumbledore is gay.

Personally, I don't care that he is, IF he is. But if a character is indeed gay, wouldn't that trait become prevalent throughout the, oh, seven books he was featured in? I never once thought Dumbledore was gay, so Rowling's declaration makes me think this is all some kind of publicity stunt. Even though she is the creator of the character, I really don't believe it.

Discuss! How far will you follow the author in their world before going off on your own?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:42 pm


I believe readers' interpretations are just as important and valid as the authors. I like knowing that Tolkien intended the LoTR trilogy to be applicable rather than allegorical, but that (in my opinion), doesn't mean that anyone else is wrong to find allegory in it.
Similarly, if Rowling has simply stated outside of the books that Dumbledore is gay (forgive me, I haven't actually read them yet), I find it perfectly acceptable for readers to draw their own conclusions based on what was in the books.

When it comes to "what the book really means" or "what the author is trying to say," I tend to fall back on what an art teacher once told me. She told the story of a time in which an admirer of her work complimented her piece, "Ego Alter" by saying "I just love what your saying here! We all need to put our egos on the alter!" My teacher had created the piece as an alter to her ego, not as a way to sacrifice her ego. But she didn't correct the person; she just thanked her, because didn't think that there should be any one "right" way to look at art.
So, for me, just because an author says something about his/her book, doesn't necessarily make it so.


Fairgrass

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Minerva the Bookwyrm

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:16 pm


If a painter paints something they might intend for it to get a certain emotion across, however, the viewer of the painting has had different experiences than the artist himself, and thus likely will feel differently when looking at it. The same is true of poets and authors. If a written piece is thought-provoking and well-done no one will read it and interpret it exactly the same way.

That being said, I think that in cases of wanting to blame the author for certain "messages," the writer's intentions must be taken into account. People that are ignorant (No offense, but they are.) and after reading Harry Potter insist that Rowling is trying to convert children to witchcraft should listen when she and other readers say that this isn't what the novels pertain to at all. I love His Dark Materials, however, when Pullman himself states, "My books are about killing God" I can't get angry at religious fanatics for not wnting to read them.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:05 pm


I believe Dumbledore was gay.
I made the connection very easily when she brought Grindlewald into the picture.

As for interpretation v.s. intention, I believe that the reader's interpretation is more important.
Why?
It's what you get out of the story that makes it so enjoyable.

Of course I believe that the author should be able to convey his or her message, but if they can't then I see that as someone who lacks the talent to be writing in the first place.
Writing is communication.

When I read, as a rule, I pay no mind to the author.
._.

just Atra


Nicky Cade

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:34 pm


I have to say, I agree with what has been said so far. Everyone has had different experiences, so of course everyone will take something different from any given book. I feel like an author writes a story based on their experiences or as a form of catharsis, and readers read the stories for a catharsis of their own. I could be wrong, of course, but I'm not a fan of there being one set meaning for anything.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:27 am


Fairgrass: That's fascinating about the art teacher. I have to disagree when you said "just because an author says something about his/her book, doesn't necessarily make it so." They are the author and creator of the books, yes? So I trust that anything they have to say about it is indeed true, but our interpretation can differ. Our thoughts on the matter will never change what they hold to be facts over their own work.

Minerva: The whole discussion of Rowling's supposedly Satanic work is, to me, also very silly. The same could be said of any author who has ever written about magic. Yes, that was a good example of how the author's intentions override reader interpretation, though people are still free to think otherwise.

Snow: I sort of made the connection, too, but it seemed like such a last-minute detail that it was hard to take in. It also makes me feel that if I reread the series, everything about his character would be distorted somehow. I'm not against the orientation, but it's placement in the series is what bothers me and makes me question it, and in turn makes me question her intentions.

Nicky: It's not so much there being one set meaning, but taking into account what the author was thinking or intending during their writing. Of course readers are free to interpret, but I don't think the creator of the work should be cast aside so easily.

DevonyEvony

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 7:36 pm


Minerva the Bookwyrm
If a painter paints something they might intend for it to get a certain emotion across, however, the viewer of the painting has had different experiences than the artist himself, and thus likely will feel differently when looking at it. The same is true of poets and authors. If a written piece is thought-provoking and well-done no one will read it and interpret it exactly the same way.

That being said, I think that in cases of wanting to blame the author for certain "messages," the writer's intentions must be taken into account. People that are ignorant (No offense, but they are.) and after reading Harry Potter insist that Rowling is trying to convert children to witchcraft should listen when she and other readers say that this isn't what the novels pertain to at all. I love His Dark Materials, however, when Pullman himself states, "My books are about killing God" I can't get angry at religious fanatics for not wnting to read them.


I don't think you're being fair to Christians. When a person writes a book they usually have a message or more then one message that they intend, and some others they may subconciously slip in. My mom and one of her friends are two people who believe that J.K.Rowling is encouraging witchcraft (so I am somewhat protective), and it's not wrong for her to think that. Her friend reads books researching the effects of certain types of literature on people. You can't call them ignorant without even meeting them. They have reasons for what they think, and while I can't state their side as clearly as they can, I had to put something down to defend them, because those faceless masses you call ignorant? Some of them are, but some of them do know what they're talking about. But again, I know two people like that, so I will admit to being a little oversensitive.

Oh, and I also concur with Fairgrass. The reader's interpretation can be as important as the author's intention. People need different things from a story, and it's up to them what they get from it. The most important things is that the person reading the story gets something from it.
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:44 am


@ Eternally: I'm Christian, and do not think J.K. is trying to do anything but tell a story. I can sit down and accept that I cannot say words, wave a stick and summon fire, and I'm pretty sure she is, too.
So... that's generalizing, too, by saying (or suggesting) that all Christians interpret it as a book promoting it.


But that interpretation can be applied to every single book about magic, can't it? I think J.K. just gets the most blame because she's so popular.

DevonyEvony

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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:06 pm


DevonyEvony
@ Eternally: I'm Christian, and do not think J.K. is trying to do anything but tell a story. I can sit down and accept that I cannot say words, wave a stick and summon fire, and I'm pretty sure she is, too.
So... that's generalizing, too, by saying (or suggesting) that all Christians interpret it as a book promoting it.


But that interpretation can be applied to every single book about magic, can't it? I think J.K. just gets the most blame because she's so popular.


I didn't think I was suggesting all Christians think J.K.'s Rowling books were promoting witchcraft and if I was I'm sorry sweatdrop . I know Christians who don't agree with my mom, but I happen to. It's okay both ways. I just didn't want the opinion that the Harry Potter books are promoting witchcraft to be percieved as "idiotic", alright?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:22 pm


Harry Potter: Dumbeldore's gay? Really... Never would have noticed, but it makes sense... who cares. Promoting Witchcraft? If people feel it's a crime for their children to read books they assume promote witchcraft, that's fine. Just don't let their children read it, get a note for school, etc... Don't try to enforce your opinions on the rest of the world.
Did not know Pullman made a statement about "Dark Materials," but I think his intention was to make people a bit more proactive with their own lives and independent... not just praying to god for a miracle to happen every time something goes wrong... he's not the fairy godmother, but some people treat him that way... and some religions revolve their lives around god rather than living for the moment... I think that's more what he intended. We were given life to live... not to spend it sacrificing to some omnipotent being... but that's just my opinion. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions.
That's what people tend to forget about things like books and art. Unless it's non-fiction stating strictly facts without opinions... there is likely to be conflict. Everybody thinks differently, so it's obvious we'll all interpret things differently.
Personally, I always failed this part in AP English. Whenever I was supposed to get a metaphor out of the book, I got something literal. When I totally enjoyed the book because I looked at it metaphorically, I was supposed to take it literally. "Heart of Darkness" by Joseph Conrad was the worst. I saw the entire thing as a metaphor of the human soul or something like that... here, it really was about a man who literally went into the depths of the jungles where primitive cultures lived. I guess my mind just works completely differently from everyone else. I did the reverse with "1984" by George Orwell, taking it literally when it was a huge metaphor. I'm sorry, I read science fiction and fantasy regularly, so I'm used to taking it literally. This is why I could never pass college English unless I got to choose the books. Some authors I just don't get... or else society decides there is only one interpretation for a book (even if the author - who is dead and gone - just wrote it for leisure!) and they think everyone should get the same impression. In fact, that is exactly"1984"!! Big Brother wants to control the way we think and interpret literature, without regards to the author's original attentions. I bet half these authors didn't plan on their books become lecture pieces and just wrote them for fun, but someone decided to interpret it a certain way, so that was what it became. It's just like the Bible!
Oi... I just can't stand the whole concept. I read because I enjoy escaping in a book. I read fiction for pleasure. If I wanted to learn something, I'd read non-fiction. I don't want to have to think when I read. It's a very sore topic with me, obviously. I'm sorry my brain doesn't fit the cookie-cutter mold society expects from me. scream

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:27 pm


About Dumbledore's gayness...She said he was, and I accept that. As for the whole "why wasn't it obvious in the books then?" argument, I ask "why did it need to be?". With homosexuality being a hot issue lately, I can understand people asking that, but ideally, Dumbledore's sexuality doesn't need to be paraded around any more than the straight characters.
Just...a tiny rant there, I guess. sweatdrop

Anyway, most of the time I don't pay a lot of mind to the author's intention when I'm reading. Since it is their work, they can write whatever they'd like, but in the end, it's up to the reader. I read The Golden Compass when I was younger and never got the "killing god" thing. Nor have I ever seen the allegorical content in LotR. I see it in Narnia, but I disregard it since I'm not Christian and just look at it as a purely fantasical sort of story.

Sometimes when I'm writing, I do kinda stop and wonder though what a reader would get out of my story.
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