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Um, did anyone else get this in the mail?

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Is Sunday worship wrong?
  Yes! It is the mark of the beast!
  No, it's not.
  Wait-WHAT??
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Zora Dee

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:05 pm


So a few of us have received a rather creepy book in the mail titled "National Sunday Law". I thought it was gonna be a political book or something corny about conspiracy theories. It wasn't...

It turned out to be a book regarding the visions of Daniel and John of Patmos (Book of Revelation) and coins the Pope with the beast mentioned in Revelation. The book also claims that Sunday worship is wrong.

You won't believe the amount of extensive study that has gone into this and how this author managed to match every turning point in history with key parts of the Bible. Has anyone else read it and if you have, what did you think of it?

If no one has read it, I'll gladly sum up the chapters and where the writer got his facts. Now I'm not sure if I want to attend church on Sunday anymore, and I think my family may disown me for this -_-;
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:21 pm


My family hasn't received the book, well at least as far as I know. Sounds . . . interesting, but do not let it instantly persuade you. There have been many theories and such like that one. I have heard that Prince Henry(?) is the antichrist, and there is a lot of details and facts that are pretty persuasive . . . at least at first glance. The point is, there can be many facts and little coincidences, but those don't necessarily prove anything.

Personally, the fact that they claim that worship on Sunday is wrong sounds crazy. It sounds more legalistic and religious than Christian.

But perhaps you could fill us in on the details?

flyingemu27
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Zora Dee

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:51 pm


flyingemu27
My family hasn't received the book, well at least as far as I know. Sounds . . . interesting, but do not let it instantly persuade you. There have been many theories and such like that one. I have heard that Prince Henry(?) is the antichrist, and there is a lot of details and facts that are pretty persuasive . . . at least at first glance. The point is, there can be many facts and little coincidences, but those don't necessarily prove anything.

Personally, the fact that they claim that worship on Sunday is wrong sounds crazy. It sounds more legalistic and religious than Christian.

But perhaps you could fill us in on the details?

You're right. Whenever I read something like this or hear about it, I'm automatically skeptical about it, even if it sounds convincing. I guess you could say I always have my guard up. I don't mean to be paranoid but Jesus did say that even the elite may be led astray.

I was only interested in reading this book because of certain parallels in the Bible the author was referring to. Like this:

End of Chapter 2 - "Who is this 'beast'? What power -
1). Received its seat from Rome. Revelation 13:4
2.) Rules the world for 1260 years
3.) Received a 'deadly wound' which later heals. Revelation 13:3
4.) Is both a political and a religious power, which is worshiped. Revelation 13:4
5.) Tampered with God's law. Daniel 7:25
6.) Has a leader which claims to be God on the earth and is able to forgive sins (blasphemy). Revelation 13:1
7.) Is a mother church (daughters have come out of her). Revelation 17:5
8.) Made war with the saints. Revelation 13:7
9.) Is a world power which is wondered at. Revelation 13:3, 4
10.) Has "a man" at the head of it with the number of his name being 666. Revelation 13:18
11.) Has a dreaded "mark" which will cause followers to be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 14:9, 10.

By now, most of the people have guessed that it's the Papacy. They're correct. It's the only power on the face of the earth that fits all the Bible characteristics for it.
But what about 666?"


According to the third chapter, the Pope had another name (wiki it and it's there), "Vicarius Filii Dei" which is Latin for "Vicar (Representative) of the Son of God".
Using Roman numerals
V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = 0
R = 0
I = 1
U = 5
S = 0
F = 0
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1
D = 500
E = 0
I = 1
_____

Total = 666


"The earliest extant record of a Protestant writer on this subject is that of Professor Andreas Helwig in 1612. In his work Antichristus Romanus he took fifteen titles in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin and computed their numerical equivalents in those languages, arriving at the number 666." - Origins of the claim, Wiki page

During the beginning of the early Papacy, members would kill and/or torture anybody who had their own Bible and read it. The only ones who could own a Bible and read it to others according to their interpretation were members of the clergy. Not only that, but apparently, they took out the second commandment of not using images and introduced saints and angels into the early church (Butler's catechism). They also shortened the commandment regarding the Sabbath, and changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday in order to mimic pagan Sun-worshiping rituals.

According to the final chapters, observing the Sabbath is God's seal and his "new covenant" with humankind, whereas Sunday observance is the Papacy's attempt to "change times and laws" (Daniel 7:25)

"With the end of the great persecutions in the early fourth century, the Church began to make laws on the proper observance of Sunday. Thus in Spain, the bishops legislated that, “If anyone in the city neglects to come to church for three Sundays, let him be excommunicated for a short time so that he may be corrected” (Council of Elvira, 306 A.D.)" - Source page

Of course, this book clearly states that people who observe Sunday innocently are not condemned, but it does say that those who know the truth and willingly break God's laws anyway are subject to His judgment.

For this reason, I was confused as to what I should do.
I could also choose more examples found in this book, and another one about the Vatican called "The Secret Terrorists" (again using a political cover to hide what's actually in the book). Apparently, the 1260 year reign (538 A.D. - 1798 A.D.) of the Papacy is mentioned 7 times in the Bible: Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 11:2, Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6, Revelation 12:14, and Revelation 13:5 and the reason why this author calls Sunday observance "the mark of the Beast" is because of something he read that verified, word-for-word, what was said in Daniel 7:25:

“The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.” “The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ.” Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary. - Vatican Claims Power To Change God’s Laws

More from that page (also found in the two books I mentioned):
“Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” -James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 ed.), pp. 72, 73.

“The Catholic church,” declared Cardinal Gibbons, “by virtue of her divine mission changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.” Catholic Mirror Sept. 23 1983. (Official organ of Cardinal Gibbons)

Supposedly, Sunday worship is the "mark" because: "[The act of changing the day of worship] is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." - Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons

And the reason why Sabbath observance is a seal is because: "A seal has three parts: 1.) The name of the ruler. 2.) The ruler's title. 3.) The territory over which he rules.
The fourth commandment regarding the Sabbath contains these 1.) Name "the Lord." 2.) Title "thy God" (Creator) 3.) His territory "heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is." "

It sounds like it makes sense, yet someone else says:
"There are no requirements, other than the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Savior, for receiving the Seal of God!"

"Christians that meet for worship on Sunday are not worshiping the Beast of Revelation, nor are they worshiping the sun god, but our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ." - http://www.truthorfables.com

You can see why I'm scratching my head here. So which one is God's Seal? Is it respecting God's mandates by observing the Sabbath the way the fourth commandment tells us, or should we ignore that and just accept Jesus, no matter what day you've chosen for worship? Or is it both? O_O

I still can't figure out if it's true or not.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:00 pm


Wow, that is a real puzzle. I can't really discern whether or not it's valid. Dang. It sounds convincing, but the fact that 99% of all Christians have accepted the mark of the beast by going to Church on Sunday seems a little off the edge.

Now I'm confused. @_@

flyingemu27
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flyingemublue

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:20 pm


Which is better for you spiritually, meeting with others on sunday and talking about God and what GOD'S BOOK says, or sleeping in because sunday school is cursed?

And by the way Revelation needs all of revelation. There are actualy two beasts and a dragon and only one of them (the Beast from the sea) becomes the antichrist(false prophet). Hebrew numbers were very symbolic 1260 years just means a realy long time, yet limited. There is also a new thery that 666 is actualy 616, meaning that I just might happen to be the "AntiChrist" because thats what my name adds up to. And I'm pretty sure your author could fit into some of thoughs as well.
Micah
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:36 pm


flyingemublue
Which is better for you spiritually, meeting with others on sunday and talking about God and what GOD'S BOOK says, or sleeping in because sunday school is cursed?

And by the way Revelation needs all of revelation. There are actualy two beasts and a dragon and only one of them (the Beast from the sea) becomes the antichrist(false prophet). Hebrew numbers were very symbolic 1260 years just means a realy long time, yet limited. There is also a new thery that 666 is actualy 616, meaning that I just might happen to be the "AntiChrist" because thats what my name adds up to. And I'm pretty sure your author could fit into some of thoughs as well.
Micah

Good point.

I actually spoke to my youth pastor about it and he said "if you want to revere Saturday, that's okay. But a lot of early Christians, beginning with John the Apostle's students started to observe Sunday (in the Latin language, Sunday is called "the Lord's day")."
He said not to look too much into it and that we shouldn't stress over it or become worried because then it turns into legalism, as flyingemu27 said.

He also said that starting next month they will teach us about Revelation so they can probably clear up a lot of my confusions.
Thanks for reading, guys! I'll try not to look too much into it ^^

Zora Dee

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flyingemu27
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:17 pm


Phew, I'm glad that was settled. xd
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:56 pm


Well thats... intresting...
I wonder how he first thought of this

General of Clowns


zeroshi

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:34 pm


Wow. That's a lot. But my dad told me how Saturday was the day for worship vs. Sunday. But he also told me that though we are celebrating on a different day, God still loves the fact that His children are still honoring and worshiping together in fellowship. It's kind of like how it was said that one had to worship in the city of Jerusalem. But after Christ died for us, we can worship anywhere, regardless of place or time. blaugh
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:15 am


woah....that thing that adds up to 666... that's just creepy.

mibachiba


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:22 pm


I worship on Sunday not because a Pope switched it (I am not Catholic, nor any break off that honors the Pope) but because Christ did long before that. Why Sunday? Because Sunday is the first day of the week and thus the the Lord’s Sabbath... commemorates the raising of Jesus by God. His apostles did this too. "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Acts 20:7) We call this the Lord's Day.

But I don't think that He minds so much if political circumstances need things different. For instance, our church in Israel meets on Saturday and in some Muslim nations on Friday. But here in the US, it is on Sunday.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:14 pm


Hebrew lesson with Micah Jessup.

'Shabbot' (Sabath) 'means day of rest'. God rested on the seventh day of creation. This would generaly mean saturday. But considering that the earth is Billions of years of and that we first evoled from fish (Satire) We Don't really know when the seventh day is. Sure it might be saturday, but "saturday" didn't really exist back when it didn't, nor did anyother day of the week. The reson we have church on Sunday mornings is not only to be in community with each other, but to focus our 'eyes' on God. This is a day when we can simply relax and go for a walk with God.

flyingemublue


Cool_dude_132

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:42 pm


I also think that this is, strange, the main reason is how a person would actually stumble upon this though, how many people would actually think to find roman numerals about a persons' name... just a little strange, but I think that it is very confusing... sweatdrop
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