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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:39 am
A few things jump out at me as I read these posts. One: Obama is not a Christian, and has said so on numerous occasions. His mother is religious and his wife is religious; he attends THEIR churches with THEM.
Two: The Western Wall is the sole piece of the Holy Temple that we have left. Ironically, this was the wall which, scholars and archaeologists speculate/believe, was essentially the garbage dump. The leftover ashes from each day's sacrifices were dumped out against the western wall of the Temple. But it's all we've got left of the Temple that Hashem told us to build, and so we treasure it.
Three: You know those pennies that you see in fountains and wells? Yeah, those aren't magic. At the end of the day, they're removed and donated to charity. The slips of paper at the Western Wall are likewise removed once every few days (presumably by Levites who live in Jerusalem, since that is after all their ancestral duty, caring for the Temple; someone who lives in Israel, please confirm this for me?) and thrown out. Why? Because they're not holy. What's holy isn't the paper, or the words written on them, but the relationship the writers/prayers hold with Hashem. That's the kind of relationship that is so personal, so deep, and so holy that it is impossible to violate it unless you're the one in the relationship. I can (G*D forbid!) ruin my relationship with Hashem, but no one else can ruin my relationship with Hashem. Removing those papers isn't a violation of anyone's relationship with Hashem.
Four: ...However, removing those papers IS a violation of a person's right to privacy. One can argue, "He's a public figure, he expects people to dig into his personal life." One can also argue, "Leaving a piece of paper in a public place is asking for someone to come along and take it and read it, and maybe to share its contents." Sure. But leaving your diary on your book shelf is the same thing: It's yours, it's private, you think leaving it there among many other books will be decent camouflage, and you trust that your family members won't open it up and read it. When they do, you've got a right to feel hurt and exposed, because there's an expectation that people will respect your privacy enough to leave it alone.
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:16 pm
Divash you are so wrong on a few things. One the western wall was not the garbage dump, that was the east wall where the dome of the rock located to be honest. lol.
Also only Cohens are allowed to remove those peices of paper and even then they must not look in them. Since it is sacred. It is a taboo in Israel to remove those peices of paper. And it is also taboo to do so in Judaism.
Also Obama is a christian. He has said it many times. He converted when he was younger.
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:17 pm
Also the levites can remove it if they are given permission, and/or if there are no cohens that are ful filling their duties at the moment.
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:45 pm
I read that in Israel, archeological digs cannot be done on Temple Mount because the Muslims won't allow it. Is that true? If so, that's totally lame. Imagine what they could find up there if only everyone were a little more open and not so defensive.
Barack Sr. denounced Islam before he even came to America, FYI. Why on Earth is faith such a big deal in this election? We should respect the seperation of church and state. The media should stop caring so much about religion and start evaluating morals instead.
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:24 pm
Wow, this topic got onto politics and out of religion a bit quicker than I would have liked. To damn straight, kingpinsqueezles. In my opinion, politics is a religion I don't want to get involved in...
To answer your enquiry on the security of the Western Wall, darkphoenix1247, there are some armed guards and a metal detector and scanner to get in through one way, facing the Wall, and seeing as that is the only one I ever use, I'm unsure of the rest. And you only have to go through it once, not coming back out. However, there are loads of young soldiers (Remember, in Israel, National Service streches for 3 years for boys and 2 for girls, the longest of any country I know, so almost every young person you see has a gun and is in uniform) around there, praying or just popping in to see it. The Wall itself is left alone. People come and go as they please, and styles of prayer are different. So when someone takes a paper, no one is watching him/her because they are all to busy praying to G-d in their own little area. And I hardly doubt a bit of paper is going to be found by a metal detector you don't even have to pass through to get out. So yeah, security seems tight there, but there's no protection from stealing the prayers.
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:03 pm
I support Obama all the way. I just wish he had the balls to support gay marriage publicly.
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:47 pm
Callamandes I support Obama all the way. I just wish he had the balls to support gay marriage publicly. Wait until after the election, he doesn't want to get hoisted on his on petard.
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:18 pm
LordNeuf Callamandes I support Obama all the way. I just wish he had the balls to support gay marriage publicly. Wait until after the election, he doesn't want to get hoisted on his on petard. See? We need a pres with the balls to say what he believes. We need Nancy Pelosi. She should be the first female pres.
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:12 pm
Callamandes LordNeuf Callamandes I support Obama all the way. I just wish he had the balls to support gay marriage publicly. Wait until after the election, he doesn't want to get hoisted on his on petard. See? We need a pres with the balls to say what he believes. We need Nancy Pelosi. She should be the first female pres.  Ok... I'm not gonna go down this road with you... Not until you get to the schmooze board and argue the merits of communism!
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