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YvetteEmilieDupont

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:02 pm


darkphoenix1247
In Medias Res II
LordNeuf
All Jews are Jews. Regardless of what sectarianism says.

Labels just get in the way of everything.


True =]

I feel so much like a Jew, I can't even explain it...

I can't wait till the Conservative rabbi gets back from vacation.

I may contact a reform rabbi as well. Apparently converts can actually request a beit din and a mikveh with the reform movement.

You know, it is okay to go the reform/conservative route- I'm a mix of both myself, so I guess I'm a bit biased, though. Not sure how the conversion is, but I'd imagine they'd be a bit more socially open than traditional Orthodox.


Yea they are. I agree completely, way easier to fit in and be conservative and reformed.

I'm doing an othodox conversion and like my community, so there for I love the Modern othodox movement. I'm flourishing in it, but I know if I was in say Chicago, New York, New Jersey, Maybe even L.A. I'd hate it. I probably would have ended up going conservative at most.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:31 am


I know that my PM told you to skip the Chabad, but I shouldn't have said that. I said that because of my personal feelings about Chabad. There are things to know about them, though: One, they are not the only form of Chasidism; two, Chasidism isn't the only form of Orthodoxy.

dancing-in-the-streets
Sort of off sides question- How will being homosexual effect the process of conversion? Isn't it a pretty frowned upon situation in the Jewish faith?


Yes, and no. Yes: There are a great many Jews, including many learned rabbis, who think that homosexuality and homosexual relations are anti-Torah entirely, everything about them is perverted, and so on. No: They are mistaken. See, the Torah mentions one specific act that homosexual men must not engage in: "You shall not lie with a man in the manner that you would lie with a woman." In other words, no face-to-face penetration. The Torah mentions not one word about homosexual women.

Torah does, however, mention dozens of restrictions upon heterosexuality. How many days are forbidden due to a woman's menstruation and the required 'white' days afterward in which there is no uterine bleeding. How many different people are forbidden: one's sister, aunt, cousin, wife, daughter, mother, another man's wife, a woman and her mother, a woman and her sister... The weird thing is that no one's trying to condemn heterosexuality. There are so many more laws against it, you'd think that they'd just say, "This is all too hard to remember, so we'd better just extend this to all heterosexuality." But that doesn't happen, because that's flat-out ridiculous. Human beings have sexual urges. We're designed that way. It would be utterly unnatural to demand that we try to suppress one of our most basic, human, integral aspects of our desires to express the inexpressible joy of love for each other.

It continues to amaze me that anyone would expect another human being to cut out this aspect of their very soul. It's amazing because it is so inhuman, so inhumane, to desire or require anyone to deny that part of themselves. It sickens me, frankly. The great Rabbi Hillel said, "Do not do to another what is hateful to yourself." I can't imagine anyone demanding that someone cut off such a huge part of who they are, deny its expression, call it ugliness and abomination. It pains me especially that there are Jews who think this way.

But though there are Jews who actually would think that way, it is not a Jewish way of thought -- any more than it's a Christian way of thought to kill all your children while they're young so that they don't grow up to become sinners.

Unfortunately, IMR, while you're trying to convert is not the time to mention your lesbianism to your rabbi. He or she might be extremely supportive, but then again, they might be so rabidly bigoted (unfortunately no community is entirely without this) that they might not help you, and might even seek to hinder you by informing all their rabbi buddies about you, which could present some serious obstacles that don't need to be there. It would be better to simply refrain from discussing any sexual issues with your rabbi at this time, and if anyone does ask, simply say that you aren't comfortable discussing such topics. Out of his own modesty, a rabbi shouldn't even ask the question, nor should you ever feel required to answer it because of your own modesty.

Divash
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In Medias Res II

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:01 am


Divash, you're too wonderful!

My parents don't know about me, and I don't think it's a rabbi's business so I do not plan on telling the rabbi I do end up with.

I just don't want to be in a position where I am expected to marry ASAP.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:27 pm


I don't see why you'd need to marry any time before you want to.

Dis Domnu


Divash
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:13 am


You should never marry before you're ready, and you should never -- according to Jewish law -- marry anyone you don't want to marry. It is, in fact, forbidden for a woman to be made to marry against her wishes.

It is also not required for a woman to have children. It is a requirement for a man who is able, but he can get them by donating genetic material to his wife via artificial insemination, if he cannot be physically intimate with her (such as if he's gay, and she's gay, and they marry in order to keep their parents and their community off their backs about it, which might be something you could investigate discreetly in the future, ahem).

The commandment "p'ru u'r'vu," be fruitful and multiply, was given to the adam (human being) when it was still complete. However, once the adam was separated into ish and ishah (man and woman, male and female halves), the commandment became binding only upon the male half. Why? Because it does not endanger his life to beget children, but it does endanger a woman's life to undergo pregnancy and childbirth, and no one is commanded to endanger his or her life (except in the case of a choice between death and committing one of the Big Three sins of adultery, idolatry, and murder).

So! You are permitted to marry (a gay man, for instance) but not commanded to do so; you are permitted to have children, but not commanded to do so. smile
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