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Just a few thoughts. I think people forgot that Most of the ground fighting used in MMA sports were in fact derived from SPORT. the other grappling, throws, etc. stemmed from more of a TMA background. You only have one opponent to worry about. You would not use ground grappling in a lot of martial arts for very simple reasons. You get in a fight, you go to the ground, you die or get seriously ******** up. Most likely who ever you pissed off has a buddy near by who would be more than happy to stomp on your head, or worse either he or his buddy has some kind of weapon. OR EVEN WORSe, its a group of assholes. now tell me how your awesome ground skills are going to help you. they wont.

However, more on topic. I think rather than MMA affecting TMA its actually martial arts as a whole that is evolving at the same time as this new sub culture of fighting grows. If anything you could break down MMA to Thai boxing or boxing, wrestling, Brazilian ju-jutsu, a little karate and not much else. I mean, the martial arts is there guys, its just limited to what a lot of traditionalists would call "hard styles".

But everything seems to come full circle. If you actually follow MMA you will notice that there are more and more fighters emerging who display some profound skills and backgrounds in TMA, where before even though that already existed you had mostly guys who studied some kind of striking and some kind of grappling and called it good, and they actually think they are well rounded fighters, its sad.

I think its going to keep evolving however, and hopefully get much better.
For the sake of the thread I would recommend we stop differentiating between MMA and TMA. ITS ALL MARTIAL ARTS guys, and we are martial artists. I think we can all respect that.

Edit: if we are going to refer to MMA as anything I think we should refer to it as a trend. Just a facet of modern martial arts society and nothing more. where it takes us will be just one change in martial arts society as a whole.

Nice thoughts Millie. But keep two things in mind: MMA has more rules than EVER before and therefore limitations on what tools you can use (no limitation on power though so yeah these guys do lay down the real deal as you say).

Also, not all MA are sport. That's actually far from the truth. I mean, you only named arts that ARE actually used in sport. I guess you could USE any martial art in sport fighting, but they all are not sport by default. Unless your opinion is to only train for sport. Maybe you weren't specific. Kali and Krav maga are definetly not sports, as well as all the related styles like silat, escrima, etc.

Look em up, they are really good survival arts used in warfare.

Nice post.

in america, i wounld not be surpirsed if many traditonal martial arts became more lax and began to expand there horizens slightly, but hopefully nothing more drastic will accure

Mate you have no idea how provincial the place I live is... The nearest city is 6 hours drive.
This town has in total: One TKD club, whose chief intructor got his blackbelt in about 2 years rolleyes
One shotokan club, its fairly decent but whilst they win lots of Kata comps they dont spar. At all... sweatdrop
One Thai boxing club. I went for 3 months to get a feel for it, and we sparred once. And I beat the s**t out of everyone there including the instructor, and I am by no means an amazing fighter...
One Shotokai club. This seems to be a mixture of shotokan and kungfu O_o needless to say it blew chunks big time..
And one southern mantis kungfu club. The instructor is actually really good at what he does, but I got frustrated with lack of sparring. And what sparring we did was like sticky hands bullshit...

Thats it pretty much, except every two weeks or so a bunch of us get together for a sparring session, strictly informal, mix of all sorts of styles. These guys are mostly bouncers so I'd probably hear if there was anyone doing anything decent in their back yard as it were.

Absolutely! Although even when I lived somewhere less provincial than this place I couldn't find any classes.
UK must suck for kali... Time to take an extended tour of the philipines! Tho I'm not sure the missus would be so keen... xd

Quite a few places I've been to, and people I've trained with have done stick related stuff, which has obviously been lifted straight from kali. But its not like proper ya know?

I practice both and I can say that a lot of you guys are totaly off.

MMA in itself is just a martial art. It is not really a mixed art. It is based off Vale Tudo which is actually one of the combat systems used by the Brazilian armed forces. Most capoeira guys (like myself) know this since many capoeira academys teach BJJ, and Vale Tudo. This is due to the fact that many kicking and throwing techniques in capoeira are also in Vale Tudo, and there are some ground fighting techinques in BJJ that come from Capoeira.

It truth all martial arts are mixed arts. It's just that many people do not realize that. MMA is a hybrid art like Bagau, Krav Maga, and so forth. And MMA is not all grappling, since that is not trully grappling. What you see is BJJ ground fighting.

The fact is that many people are not willing to take the time that is needed to learn TMA, but TMA will not die down. It will evolve/regress but in a good way if you ask me. Mainly in the training for the different styles. There will be more sparring, and bag practice if you ask me. Which is how it used to be a long time ago before the US pushed ethics on to everybody. Japan, China, Filippines, the Middle East and so forth up until 1930, still held full contact deaht matches/full contact sparring matches when it came to martial arts. Now a days that is not so. Very few TMA's do that anymore with good reason. TMA's trained to kill. MMA doesn't trully do that. It is more for the ring and self defense. TMA's are to kill and for self-defense. Don't get me wrong MMA can kill. Now if TMA's go back to training to kill, while still incorparating control, and modern practice and doing more sparring then yeah. There will be some serious changes for the better.

Grappling is more of Wrestling, Judo, Aikido, Chin Na and so forth. I practiced wrestling while in highschool. Grappling is the mix of grabbing, holds, chokes, throws, using your opponents energy against them, bends, ground fighting, joint manipulation, and so forth in any mix. It is that mix that gives you the certain art. If you have more throws to the ground and joint maniplulation it is Judo; if you have move throws away from you, and you use your opponents energy more it is Aikido. Understand what I mean? BJJ is a grappling art that is mostly ground fighting, and joint manipulation. Chin Na is mostly bends, joint manipulation, and grabbing/push and pulls.

True mixed martial artists are those that learn 2 or more TMA's and learn how to use together in fights. They are TMMA's; traditional mixed martial artists.

Also Muay Thai does have forms and it is about 600 years old. Possibly older. It's just that no one is fully sure when it originated, but it is theorized that it originated way back in the ancient Khmer empire. Muay Thai itslef is actually Southeastern Asian martial arts since it has different names in different southeast asian countries. It's forms are the Wai Khru. The dances you do before a match to the music that goes with the match which are a sign of respect to the teachers and elders. It's just that in the US they are not taught as much. And there are belt/sash/mongkon systems in certain styles, and gyms in Thailand. In the US not as much. Also the Muay thai seen in Ong Bak is a mix of elephant boran style and tkd. There are several styles of muay thai. Ong bak is truthful in that aspect when it mentioned that. And some have their own sub branches.

Muay Korat (Northeast) emphasized strength. A technique like "Throwing Buffalo Punch" was used. It could supposedly defeat a buffalo in one blow.
Muay Lopburi (Center region) emphasized movements. Its strong points were straight and counter punches.
Muay Chaiya (South) emphasized posture and defense, as well as elbows and knees.
Muay Pra Nakorn (North) emphasized speed, particularly in kicking. Because of its faster speed, it was called as well "Ling Lom" (windy monkey or Loris).
Muay Luang: a style that was taught to the royal guards.

The Muay Thai that we see the most in the US is actually a result of one of the kings pushing for the organization of Muay thai in 1863.

I did a 17 page report on this and tkd. Most of it was on Muay Thai.

I think there is only so much that can be learned either way from a single form of training; which is ultimately separates one form of martial arts from another. Not all martial arts are "sports" but they can be used in competitive applications for sport though. Ultimately it is that focus of your training that I think will determine your success in specific scenarios. i feel MMA will add more scenarios for TMA to provide knowledge on.TMA in my opinion has more techniques to put in one's "toolbox" than MMA does. This does not mean I feel MMA is inferior; it has a lot to offer in basic self defense. I personally will always be a "TMMA' as one individual earlier described; I practice multiple traditional styles.