|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:19 am
Wow...
Yep, wow...
So yeah... wow...
Um... so, getting to the critique. The last major paragraph needs polishing, I believe you misplace pronouns when you talk about people and it gets terribly confusing. Try maybe narrowing down the subjects of each sentence, or even breaking up that last paragraph into two sections to better get across the messages and actions each character is getting across.
I'm not entirely sure about how old Beryl is, but that isn't what I want to really harp on. My question/rant is... didn't Beryl just get delivered to his first class, late, where the audience is assumed to know that the room in which he is delivered is filled with other pupils? So... what happened to the other 10 kids in the class? Should a professor of such elevated position be openly discussing herself to her pupils? I had thought that you would more or less take a page from Jordan and have these discussions in private mayhaps? Surely the class being taught would take precidence over a personal history lesson, unless of course this professor is prone to losing herself in meaningful dialogue with youths in front of her other students?
That's just a sharp little nitting for you, as well, I've noticed, all the characters have a similar oneness, they all act the same and react the same. Beryl is no doubt the keystone to this story, young and seemingly omnicient, he's a tough bite to chew since he gives no air of propheteermanship. In any case, it was a well threaded read, I look forward to more.
Justin
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:55 pm
I'm actually getting to much of that (his sole tutelage, for instance (which I think I alrteady got to WAY back in the story....))with the next scene. But you are entirely wrong if you think all the characters act the same. And Beryl himself acts very differently around Master than he does Elanna.
You see, as earlier noted, Elanna gets side-tracked very easily, and doesn't refrain from using personal anecdotes, especially when she thinks it will help introduce a point or make gleaning knowledge much easier. Olivia is almost her opposite--focused and refusing to talk about her past. She acts rashly, and has the power to get away with it. Elanna, on the other hand, coaxes out information--and has thus reached much farther than anyone else into Beryl's psyche--patiently, slow to anger and quick to forgiveness, she is the last person who would hold a grudge.
Part of why many of the characters seem similar is that all of their initial reactions--Nova excluded--are similar. No one expects a seven-year-old to say things that Beryl has. Shock, then warmth, is generally how it goes. In fact, soon enough--when Beryl meets one of his Magisters--I will point this out in the negative, as a formulaic, normal part of his existence that has been changed.
Hopefully, as the story goes on, you will see more how the other characters interact with one another, most notably with Nova, and with Olivia/Elanna.
Love and Vale,
~LD
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:31 pm
That's understandable, but perhaps not everyone likes being talked to like that by a seven year old? I'm not trying to tell you how to write your characters, I'm just giving you my opinion that everytime this child, emphasis on child, meets an adult with some secret past and he just figures it all out in front of a bunch of people that they would do more than tear up, look started then love him for it.
I don't want to be an a** about realism in a fantasy story, it just gets a little monotonous when here we have a big, powerful magic... teacher woman,sorry the name eludes me, gets talked down to by an infant, accepts it like it happens all the time and then leaves. It just feels like everyone follows that same direct archetype of reaction. Yeah its cute when little kids say deep and meaningful things, brings a tear to my eye too, but still it gets a little over played. I don't want to have to bring out the Mary-Sue word, so I won't, I'll leave that tucked away in its dark box of hell under the bed.
Anyway, get writing! I want to know what happens next.
Justin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:53 pm
Youch. You're right. Though, in my defense, they are teachers. Mostly patient and wise, and who all have too many common links with the boy to just tell him to "shut up".
Damn, though, comments like this really make me want to stagger this story with Valentyne's. I swear, they are so very opposite. If she said one thing out of line, she would get a lash, to say the least.
And actually, Olivia's reaction startled me. At the time, it didn't seem like that was how it would play out, but did you read the end? Something switched in her, like she was waiting for someone to say that. Even if it was Beryl, even if it was rude, she needed those words. I can feel it.
Tommy? What do you think? Was that too much of a stretch? Or was it the ultimate humanizing device?
I think I'll mention this later, once Beryl grows up a little....
-LD
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:03 am
Leavaros Youch. You're right. Though, in my defense, they are teachers. Mostly patient and wise, and who all have too many common links with the boy to just tell him to "shut up". Damn, though, comments like this really make me want to stagger this story with Valentyne's. I swear, they are so very opposite. If she said one thing out of line, she would get a lash, to say the least. And actually, Olivia's reaction startled me. At the time, it didn't seem like that was how it would play out, but did you read the end? Something switched in her, like she was waiting for someone to say that. Even if it was Beryl, even if it was rude, she needed those words. I can feel it. Tommy? What do you think? Was that too much of a stretch? Or was it the ultimate humanizing device? I think I'll mention this later, once Beryl grows up a little.... -LD No no, I fully understand that they are teachers, I personally hate it when teachers take a negative hand with students, it isn't called for or necessary, but then again, it does happen. I did notice the switch in Olivia, and I think that what Beryl told her was good for her character development, but I think a colder, more grey environment would have given the lecture from Beryl a more enlightening tone, would have allowed for Olivia to refute more openly and not risk embarassment infront of her pupils. Ultimately this is your work, your child to bare. If I can help you get across your meaning better, great, if I'm only here to criticize I guess that's fine too. Only you can tell this story, but I'm sticking to what I said, that I think her forced self-discovery should have come at a later time at another, more private venue, or should you wish to damn her character, in completely open and public venue. Either way, get writing monkey!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:17 pm
Monkey! I'm shocked and appalled! (And I will get to it....)
Really, it was very private, and the room was cold and grey--not sure if I follow your words or not--but surely you realize that it had to be there, in front of Elanna, right?
-LD
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:51 pm
True I suppose, but a classroom is a personal space, your description was very warm and wholesome, so that is what threw me off.
The problem with you description is your complete ommitence of the students. You said in the previous entry that he was late for class, this immediately tells the reader that other students are already there, yet you make no mention of them. When I read the passage, I see only empty desks, a silver tree and Elanna. It wouldn't be so much of a problem should you have said, the room was empty except for the teacher, but you didn't. Therefore, a keen reader like myself will wonder what the other students are thinking, actually, I'm wondering where they are, is the whole class late today? Hardly likely I would think.
All I'm doing is hen pecking the minute details that others will sink you for. Covering your bases is difficult as hell, I remember in my first novel there was a single little detail I had mentioned in the beginning that bloody well ruined the last 6 chapters of my book and forced me to rewrite them. This isn't the same case, but still, those with attention to detail will know something is wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:05 pm
Damn, Lion, you're right again. But actually, I'm going to use that "error" in the next scene.... Actually, it's a perfect excuse to reveal a number of things....
-LD
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:41 am
Things are continuing to look good, though I think you may have missed your Friday/Saturday deadline...
The history/nature of Selenia continues to interest me. I especially liked hearing about how Nova discovered Elanna's talents. It is good to see the world developing so strongly, and I feel much more drawn into the actual story now that I know some about the state of the world it takes place in. It would be good to hear something about actual magic, even if just to set the mood. I don't think we've seen any indication that Campus is more than a place where people in cloaks talk about someday going to class. ^_~
The story is still all social interaction... I guess a lack of action scenes might be my only complaint. This really isn't a problem, and social action scenes aren't really wanting either... I think the real lacking point in the story so far is a grand conflict--a main villain, obstacle, or anti-Beryl that can present some challenge to him--I can accept even if it is a social challenge, but let there be a challenge nonetheless.
With the breadth of characters and the infrequency of updates, it might be nice to have a character list, just to keep names and roles straight in the story. As lion mentioned, the reactions to Beryl can be somewhat repetitive. I think you should definitely stagger the story. As endearing as Beryl is, he's still, as Lion puts it "a tough bite to chew". Seeing a similar character (what I think this Valentyne must be) find opposite reactions to her insights would be a good device for the readers, and perhaps break the monotony of Beryl's happy fantasy world.
As Lion mentioned, and I'm inclined to agree, establishing setting is the weakest link in your writing. Without the shape and dimensions of rooms, the descriptions of other people around, and talk of the place's general atmosphere, I can't "see" the events unfolding. Even though these things are irrelevant to the story, they mean much to the understanding of the tale.
I'll be back to read your next chapter, and sorry for the delays. I've been selling copies of DMO at Nekocon '09 this past weekend, so preparing and executing that have eaten up all of my time.
Take care,
~KK
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:57 pm
The more I hear, the more I want to stagger. I had a very, VERY upsetting dream about plagiarism, and now I want to copyright this story. ASAP. Quote: The history/nature of Selenia continues to interest me. I especially liked hearing about how Nova discovered Elanna's talents. It is good to see the world developing so strongly, and I feel much more drawn into the actual story now that I know some about the state of the world it takes place in. It would be good to hear something about actual magic, even if just to set the mood. I don't think we've seen any indication that Campus is more than a place where people in cloaks talk about someday going to class. ^_~ This made me laugh so hard that tears came to my eyes. It's just so...so well done! Quote: As Lion mentioned, and I'm inclined to agree, establishing setting is the weakest link in your writing. Without the shape and dimensions of rooms, the descriptions of other people around, and talk of the place's general atmosphere, I can't "see" the events unfolding. Even though these things are irrelevant to the story, they mean much to the understanding of the tale. Really, though, this is written as Beryl through the eyes of future VelArian. Just as the scenery and setting might seem weak to you, a story that is more focused in action and plot movement (one resplendent in scenic development) would seem first pointless to someone like VelArian, and simply unrealistic for someone like Beryl. I'm not going to ask you to reread the whole thing to check on this, but have you noticed that, so far, the majority of people are first described by their mood and their eyes (color, motion, etcetera) rather than by skin color or hair length (as we might see in Dragonlance). Even if it might be "weak" writing, I want to emphasize--and drive in--how Beryl acts and reacts now, especially to contrast VelArian later. Remember that a child would have very limited knowledge on anything else except that which his Master tells him, politics and magic included. And just as this is Beryl's story, I can't just throw in conflict willy-nilly. It has to fit. I wish--oh, but I wish!--that I could just get through all of this to the point when he meets the cruel Magister, and ultimately his peers. Quote: With the breadth of characters and the infrequency of updates, it might be nice to have a character list, just to keep names and roles straight in the story. As lion mentioned, the reactions to Beryl can be somewhat repetitive. I think you should definitely stagger the story. As endearing as Beryl is, he's still, as Lion puts it "a tough bite to chew". Seeing a similar character (what I think this Valentyne must be) find opposite reactions to her insights would be a good device for the readers, and perhaps break the monotony of Beryl's happy fantasy world. A similar character! I think not, dear KiyoKyo. But...I suppose in some ways she is VelArian's perfect companion. They are as matching gloves, equal and opposite, meant for one another but worn on separate hands, one on each at a time.... Sure. I'll do VelArian's list soon, and Valentyne's as hers unfolds. And I'll go ahead and introduce Chantz, as well when I do.... Love and Vale! (And thanks for posting!) ~Leavaros
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:47 pm
Quote: Really, though, this is written as Beryl through the eyes of future VelArian. Just as the scenery and setting might seem weak to you, a story that is more focused in action and plot movement (one resplendent in scenic development) would seem first pointless to someone like VelArian, and simply unrealistic for someone like Beryl. Oh man, I'm kind of lost now... is Beryl, VelArian? Its been quite some time sine I read the beginning of the story. However, I will pose two arguments for you good Varos: 1. If Beryl is in fact VelArian, I want to inform you that sense perception is a big part of how children remember and interact with things when they are young. Therefore, as well as being obsessive compulsive towards a person's eyeballs, Beryl would also make great not of his surroundings, the smells, the atmosphere. Children are incredibly perceptive and its almost better to over emphasize the scenary as it can help intensify the mood of the dialogue if you set it right. 2. VelArian is NOT Beryl, though to me this seems wildly unrealistic, shut up I know this is fantasy. Should this story be told by an omnicient 3rd party, which I believe it may be, the speaker would normally focus on the subtle actions of the protgonist, here, Beryl. Your entire story would be told in the passive voice, which it sometimes isn't. Anyway, I'm not going to come down on you anymore until you have posted again since I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. *Note that no dead horses were harmed in the writing of this post*
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:25 pm
Cute disclaimer!
Beryl is VelArian's younger self. Now while most children would be more perceptive, remember that this is still an individual, not an archetype (or at least not only an archetype). Besides, as I've heard it told, people who are in Beryl's condition--to be later noted--have sharpened senses in some areas and complete lacks in others. Beryl's sharpened senses are his social interactions, and his five senses--note the sixth sense prevailing over all five. His shortcomings should be plain, too. He has no sense of class, talks out of turn, knows very little of and takes very little note of his surroundings--short of the feelings they give him, and has limited to no interest in his peers.
Feel free to beat the horse--it's dead already. I really am taking in what you say, I just think it's way too early in the story to start second-guessing characters.
Love and Vale,
-Leavaros
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
