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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:11 pm
I.Am Beware the Jabberwock None of these things are biological. There are things that can mirror different things, such a a sociopath acts very much like a psychopath however a sociopath is a product of his environment and a psychopath is a product of biology. There are still ways to test for each however, and to figure out whether someone is one or the other. I didn't say anywhere that they were biological. However, they are reactions to stimuli, which is what you said that the study used to decide whether someone is bi, gay, lesbian, whatever. That's not the point, you can't alter someone biologically through environment. A LGBT person is different from a straight person biologically, to say you can become gay through environment doesn't work because there is a distinct biological difference between straight and gay.
Yes, it was testing for stimuli, however according to studies to be gay there is something different in your biological make-up. Environment isn't going to change that.Quote: Quote: Also when someone is born a psychopath they're never going to be average joe, no matter how normal, stable and loving your family is. There are different degrees of psychopathy as well, not all of them are going to turn into ritualistic murderers. However nothing you can do is ever going to make them not a psychopath.
Rape has nothing to do with biology, it has to do with power. This is something that is quite obviously directly corrolated with your views and environment. Same with being abusive and same with being a child molester. Yes. However, there is a biological aspect to it: Because of your environment, you react to things differently. Your body reacts to things. I wasn't born hating, say, Pro-Choicers, but that doesn't mean that my body doesn't react when I enter the Pro-Choice forums, or a debate thread. Yes, because of your environment you react to things differently but your environment doesn't alter something that is different biologically. Look at Transsexuals, they're considered to have to brain of the opposite gender (the problem with this is that it's impossible to tell who is a 'true' transsexual until after they're dead) to put it in layman's terms. They're raised in the environment of the sex they're born as, however even still they know that they're the wrong gender.
It's the sociological debate of nature vs. nurture. However nurture is said to effect your views, morals etc. Nature is the very basics - things such as sexuality.
Look at gay animals for instance. Do you think animals are prone to becoming gay because of their environment, even though they survive completely on instinct? If not then why is the percentage of gay animals in each species the same percentage as gay humans? Wouldn't the percentage go up if nurture was also affecting people becoming LGBT?Quote: Quote: The point of that was people make out with people they're not attracted to, all the time. It's not always for shock value and they're not always pretending to be gay. Nawal is very open about how she's completely straight, and I'm very open about how I'm not straight. I disagree. No offense but, even if you do not realize it yourself, I think that if you are kissing someone of the same sex and you are not gay, then you -are- going for shock value. Otherwise, if you like kissing, you would kiss someone of the opposite gender. It's only shocking if someone considers it shocking. Why does someone have to kiss someone of the opposite sex in order for it to be mundane? Why isn't it shocking if a lesbian makes out with a man, for shits and giggles? Just because society is changing and people are doing more and more things that mainstream things that are considered "shocking" doesn't mean people are doing it specifically for shock value.
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:25 pm
I.Am That's exactly it though. Why is it that consenting adults is okay, but consenting children/adults is not? As I said, you have to take the rape part out of the equation. Obviously a man who goes around forcefully sodomizing other men would be dysfunctional. But a man who just likes other men is not. Why is it not the same with ***** that I support it's legalization, mind you. I just want to know how you can define dysfunction and sexuality in such a way as homosexuallity is okay, but ***** or whatever is not. There's no way to remove the two. A child is not fully aware of the implications, or concequences of sex, if they consent their judgement is impared due to the fact they are not fully aware of what they're consenting to. Just like how it's considered rape to have sex with someone who is intoxicated, even if they say yes their judgement is impared and so the consent is not viable.
Now I'm going to break a bit down for you. There is a difference between being an honest to God ***** and [forcefully] raping/molesting children.
***** has not been researched a huge extend so for all intents and purposes I'm going to assume that there's a difference in a ***** than there is in "the norm". Now if this was proven to be true, nothing in your nurture could make you a ***** about the studies that show that someone who is molested as a child is more likely to molest children? That's not *****, infact if you look at that type of thing chances are those people aren't even really sexually attracted to the children.
You see that kind of rape is different than statuatory rape. Forceful rape is about power and control, taking it for yourself and stripping it from the other person. Statuatory rape is usually about sexual attraction to some extent as well as probably still a bit of the control factor, they can control unknowing children into having sex with them.
With these both an honest to God ***** could then not act upon his impulses. He could be attracted sexually however not do anything about it, what is wrong with that? Though I find it creepy the person would be controling themself and not harming anyone else, physically, mentally or emotionally.
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:34 pm
Beware the Jabberwock Quote: Quote: The point of that was people make out with people they're not attracted to, all the time. It's not always for shock value and they're not always pretending to be gay. Nawal is very open about how she's completely straight, and I'm very open about how I'm not straight. I disagree. No offense but, even if you do not realize it yourself, I think that if you are kissing someone of the same sex and you are not gay, then you -are- going for shock value. Otherwise, if you like kissing, you would kiss someone of the opposite gender. It's only shocking if someone considers it shocking. Why does someone have to kiss someone of the opposite sex in order for it to be mundane? Why isn't it shocking if a lesbian makes out with a man, for shits and giggles? Just because society is changing and people are doing more and more things that mainstream things that are considered "shocking" doesn't mean people are doing it specifically for shock value.I just don't feel like arguing the rest right now. Long day. Sorry. -.-;; As for this, that's exactly what I mean. "For shits and giggles." That's for shock value; Not necessarily to shock other people, but the whole reason you would kiss someone outside of attraction is that it's something you -wouldn't- do. It's funny. It's shocking.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:02 pm
While it is true that our laws are NOT dependent on morality, I do believe that gay marriage should be banned. Not that I have anything against gay couples. I believe they should have the same privilages as everyone else. They are all my neighbors. The culprit in this case is neither the homosexual community nor the christian community. The fault lies with out legal strusture. "Marriage" is tightly woven into our legal structire butis, in truth, an institution of the Church. For true equality to be achieved, "marriage" must be erraticated from the law books and replaced with something more- secular. An equivilant which would have all the legal implications which marriage currently holds ("Civil Unions" are currently used, but not to their full potential). An equivilant which would be available to all couples. This would completely separate the Church from the State, and isn't that what people want? This legal equivilant could be granted to couples at marriage, but also to other couples. Simply put, the Church would be able to keep marriage, the State would not force any one side, and everyone would have equal protection under the law.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:13 pm
I.Am Beware the Jabberwock Quote: Quote: The point of that was people make out with people they're not attracted to, all the time. It's not always for shock value and they're not always pretending to be gay. Nawal is very open about how she's completely straight, and I'm very open about how I'm not straight. I disagree. No offense but, even if you do not realize it yourself, I think that if you are kissing someone of the same sex and you are not gay, then you -are- going for shock value. Otherwise, if you like kissing, you would kiss someone of the opposite gender. It's only shocking if someone considers it shocking. Why does someone have to kiss someone of the opposite sex in order for it to be mundane? Why isn't it shocking if a lesbian makes out with a man, for shits and giggles? Just because society is changing and people are doing more and more things that mainstream things that are considered "shocking" doesn't mean people are doing it specifically for shock value.I just don't feel like arguing the rest right now. Long day. Sorry. -.-;; As for this, that's exactly what I mean. "For shits and giggles." That's for shock value; Not necessarily to shock other people, but the whole reason you would kiss someone outside of attraction is that it's something you -wouldn't- do. It's funny. It's shocking. You're both somewhat right. People CAN kiss someone of the same sex, not be attracted and not be going for shock value. It's a GREETING, PEOPLE DO IT ALL OVER THE WORLD, (exept for America). Its a sign of fellowship in most cultures. Considering America only, however, those instances are usually shock value (but not always). I know people who do this not for shock value always, I'm not even goin to try to guess what goes on in their heads. Also, a lesbian can kiss a man and have it be shocking, it woould be (but obviously only to those who know her as a lesbian). Heteosexual kisses can often be shockng too, depending on the social situation.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:37 pm
Jocken While it is true that our laws are NOT dependent on morality, I do believe that gay marriage should be banned. Not that I have anything against gay couples. I believe they should have the same privilages as everyone else. They are all my neighbors. The culprit in this case is neither the homosexual community nor the christian community. The fault lies with out legal strusture. "Marriage" is tightly woven into our legal structire butis, in truth, an institution of the Church. For true equality to be achieved, "marriage" must be erraticated from the law books and replaced with something more- secular. An equivilant which would have all the legal implications which marriage currently holds ("Civil Unions" are currently used, but not to their full potential). An equivilant which would be available to all couples. This would completely separate the Church from the State, and isn't that what people want? This legal equivilant could be granted to couples at marriage, but also to other couples. Simply put, the Church would be able to keep marriage, the State would not force any one side, and everyone would have equal protection under the law. Don't forget there is always the flip side to that equation. Some people, like me, feel that marriage is too sacred a sacrament for the government to have control over. I think it is egotistical and borderline blasphemous for the government to regulate something that is between God and the couple in question.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:31 pm
Jocken You're both somewhat right. People CAN kiss someone of the same sex, not be attracted and not be going for shock value. It's a GREETING, PEOPLE DO IT ALL OVER THE WORLD, (exept for America). Its a sign of fellowship in most cultures. Considering America only, however, those instances are usually shock value (but not always). I know people who do this not for shock value always, I'm not even goin to try to guess what goes on in their heads. Also, a lesbian can kiss a man and have it be shocking, it woould be (but obviously only to those who know her as a lesbian). Heteosexual kisses can often be shockng too, depending on the social situation. None of what I was talking when I said "kiss" would ever be considered a greeting in any part of the world. I'm not saying a peck on the cheek. Also, I never denied that a homosexual could kiss a heterosexual and it be shocking. In the end, even though I've sort of shifted my position on homosexuallity, I still think I was right. If you're kissing someone you're not attracted to, it's for shock value, whether it's the shocking of yourself that makes you go, "Squee, I normally wouldn't do this, it's so weird" or the shocking of other people.
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:11 pm
I personally think that we shouldn't even be having this problem about gay marriage. It's stupid, homosexuals are people too. I was actually talking to Dianthu about this and really, what if we were run by a homosexual government and they didn't allow heterosexual marrages? Everyone who wasn't homosexual would be outraged like the homosexuals are now. But I don't blame them, I'm outraged that Canada had to vote for it TWICE and it passed both times! Like seriously! Everyone get your heads out of your a** and see the world what it is! And please excuse my language but ^_^ I feel really strongly about this fact and I'm 100% for Gay Marriage.
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:52 am
shedevilkai I personally think that we shouldn't even be having this problem about gay marriage. It's stupid, homosexuals are people too. I was actually talking to Dianthu about this and really, what if we were run by a homosexual government and they didn't allow heterosexual marrages? Everyone who wasn't homosexual would be outraged like the homosexuals are now. But I don't blame them, I'm outraged that Canada had to vote for it TWICE and it passed both times! Like seriously! Everyone get your heads out of your a** and see the world what it is! And please excuse my language but ^_^ I feel really strongly about this fact and I'm 100% for Gay Marriage. EXACTLY!!!
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:47 am
I've ceased to care about this, and here's why:
Unlike abortion, this is a decision that has an effect on you and another consenting adult and THEM ALONE. If gay marriage is approved, does that somehow change my heterosexual marriage? Before someone goes and mentions the God thing, last time I checked God could take care of himself. If it pisses him off that two gay people get married, then again, that's between THEM and HIM. If you think it's a sin, then what's next? you want to make every sin illegal? Good luck with that.
Nope, this is a personal thing that has nothing to do with me, and therefore, i see no reason for me to get involved in it. If it's made legal, or illegal, or whatever, I won't cheer or cry for either outcome because i simply don't, and have no right to, care.
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:16 pm
Mistress Kumori shedevilkai I personally think that we shouldn't even be having this problem about gay marriage. It's stupid, homosexuals are people too. I was actually talking to Dianthu about this and really, what if we were run by a homosexual government and they didn't allow heterosexual marrages? Everyone who wasn't homosexual would be outraged like the homosexuals are now. But I don't blame them, I'm outraged that Canada had to vote for it TWICE and it passed both times! Like seriously! Everyone get your heads out of your a** and see the world what it is! And please excuse my language but ^_^ I feel really strongly about this fact and I'm 100% for Gay Marriage. EXACTLY!!! Ditto ^_^
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:22 am
I want one of these for Christmas! ^_^
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:27 am
MiNdCaNdY I've ceased to care about this, and here's why: Unlike abortion, this is a decision that has an effect on you and another consenting adult and THEM ALONE. If gay marriage is approved, does that somehow change my heterosexual marriage? Before someone goes and mentions the God thing, last time I checked God could take care of himself. If it pisses him off that two gay people get married, then again, that's between THEM and HIM. If you think it's a sin, then what's next? you want to make every sin illegal? Good luck with that. Nope, this is a personal thing that has nothing to do with me, and therefore, i see no reason for me to get involved in it. If it's made legal, or illegal, or whatever, I won't cheer or cry for either outcome because i simply don't, and have no right to, care. YEAH! Bestiality FTW! scream
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:38 am
Tiger of the Fire MiNdCaNdY I've ceased to care about this, and here's why: Unlike abortion, this is a decision that has an effect on you and another consenting adult and THEM ALONE. If gay marriage is approved, does that somehow change my heterosexual marriage? Before someone goes and mentions the God thing, last time I checked God could take care of himself. If it pisses him off that two gay people get married, then again, that's between THEM and HIM. If you think it's a sin, then what's next? you want to make every sin illegal? Good luck with that. Nope, this is a personal thing that has nothing to do with me, and therefore, i see no reason for me to get involved in it. If it's made legal, or illegal, or whatever, I won't cheer or cry for either outcome because i simply don't, and have no right to, care. YEAH! Bestiality FTW! scream I -knew- you furries were animal-lovers! scream
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Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:44 pm
GODESS SAYS..... What? I live in Canada and I didn't know that! o.o
That's great!
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