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 Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:02 am
I'm not much help with pricing, though I can definitely say that for that sort of work, with a detailed background and with the demands it could make on your time, he'd be looking at a pricey piece. I mean. Upwards of $50, at the least. Or that would be my guess. I have a question of my own, though. I won an art auction by the Gaia user Usaki back in January. It wasn't a big thing; I won with a bid of 7k. He contacted me about the auction after I won, and I gave him the information, and I sent the trade. I never heard from him again. The trade was never completed; he never confirmed it, so it's still sitting in the bank. I didn't lose any gold. But I can't get a hold of Usaki at all. His last post is Nov. 1 in one of the Halloween event threads, and before that the last post is May or June or something. I really don't think I'm ever going to get the art I was supposed to get. Is it acceptable, at all, to cancel the trade? If I thought there was any chance the person was still remotely around, I wouldn't even think of it, but... well, what should I do?
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:10 am
I'd say yes. I tend to cancel trades if I don't hear from the artist within 3 months of my commission/auction/whatever. Leave him a PM explaining why, and maybe offer to re-send the trade if he ever responds.
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:31 pm
Manda--looks like he last logged on just four days ago. Personally, I would send him a PM warnign him that if you didn't hear back from him by X date, that I was going to cancel the trade. Then wait until that date and cancel. :3
Anetra--I'm no good with pricing...especially cg because I typically only buy natural media irl, but I'll try to help... whee ; Considering the detailed background he wants and the extra characters (it might be easier to draw a few mangled corpses, but hey, they're still bodies...), $50 sounds pretty reasonable to me... Do you know what you would charge for just a single character w/ no bg? Start with that and adjust accordinly for the level of difficulty in the background... $20? maybe somethign like... +50% for background, +100% for detailed background...+150% for descripbing the position of every corpse, etc? xd ; Don't forget to think about how long it's going to take you, you don't want to spend 20 hours on it and rip yourself off by charging too little. :3
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:33 pm
Mama Manda, I'm in agreement with Rae. Just send him a PM along the lines of "Hey! Haven't heard from you in a little while, wasn't sure if you still were going to do my picture.
If I don't get a response back from you in a week or so I'm going to need to cancel that trade, but I do still want the picture, so you can PM me back anytime thereafter and I can open it right back up!"
And thanks for your help, Manda and Rae! heart
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:41 pm
Sounds reasonable enough, definitely. I'll do that. Thank you, dears! 3nodding heart
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Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:57 am
Wanted: Someone who thinks well in abstracts to help me with something. Another spot of thread-purpose-stretching, sorry folks wink Basically I need to descern what the metaphorical core of Lilith's anger, hatred, jealousy, lust, and vanity looks like. Either in drawing or textual description, either will do, for something that's happening ingame sometime shortly (A different character is, to my understanding, intent on venturing into Lilith's mind-- like in The Cell, I guess, and we need to figure out what it all looks like). I am inept, though. When I got stuck coming up with a description, (I couldn't even begin) I decided to just start drawing and see whta came out-- this also went poorly. Basic Lilith information can be garnered from her profile here, but for this sort of purpose it is somewhat insufficient. Or at least, the really telling things may not be recognized with the weight they carry. I will make the text smaller on the following, please copy/paste it or quote the post to read it, so it doesn't stretch the page too far and isn't intrusive on those who don't care. Her alignmet is chaotic evil. This is significant. Lilith has no morality whatsoever. She is completely selfish and self serving, even in cases where she wants to do something for someone else-- she invariabley wants to do it for the "wrong reasons". (eg, "I do not like seeing Nautilus upset, therefore I will cheer him up becuase I like him better when he is not mad at me" versus "I did something to upset Nautilus very much, and I need to do something deserving of his forgiveness".)
Her list of deities, also very significant. Look them up on wikipedia.
She's also 1/4 Succubus. Lilith is a constant inner struggle, elf versus demon, one vying to overcome the other. Her actions are often contradictory and nonsensical. While she is chaotic evil, the "chaos" is stronger than the "evil" in her-- though it also bears mention that she is entierly insane.
Lilith mental conditions include but are not limited to:
- Hearing, and speaking to voices she imagines, which second guess her every move.
- Extreme antisocial behavior
- A solid belief she is completely invincible and nothing can hurt or kill her
- Strong sadomasochistic tendencies
- Extreme paranoia
- An inability to resist something that anyone wants her not to have. eg, If she asks to see something, and you say "no", she will do anything to get to see it, and will become completely blinded and shortsighted in her desire to see this item, forgeting about all other interests.
- An inability to resist something she's interpreted as a game, as above.
With that out of the way, here is the other information I was asked for, for the "trip into Lilith's mind" adventure. Quote:
On The Influences Of Other People
Mother/Father relation
Lilith's mother was a Monk of the Dark Moon. She was rarely ever home, her business with the church was much more important than a child. Lilith "grew up" within a Drow society primarily with her father, who worked as an assassin, and various sharran priests. She was less raised as a child than she was conditioned and brainwashed by the clergy, which is probably the result of her inability to understand simple moral equations.
Whereas a child would be upset only because of the reaction something bad /got/, as they got older they would be raised to understand that it is the action that is inappropriate and not the reaction. Lilith's childhood years lacked this, and were instead filled with Sharran theology.
Fawn
Fawn Kuwadabe was Lilith's only "friend" through her pre-amnesia time, though in truth the pair detested eachother. Fawn was a half-drow and was willing to pretend she worshiped the very ground Lilith walked on (as a fey'ri, Lilith was clearly superior to the drow), and in exchange Lilith was willing to tolerate Fawn (unlike the drow, who .. treated her like a half-drow).
The two built up a rappor of "friendship", but never cared for eachother.
Torin
Lilith loved Torin, but he completely destroyed her heart, and was the catalyst for her shift from chaotic neutral to chaotic evil after her amnesia. She still loves him, but refuses to admit this to herself or anyone else, and instead does as much as she can to try to prove to herself how much she hates him.
Nesinaziel
A "friend" of hers, someone she trusted and saw as an older sister postamnesia. They met in Santa Lucia, and Nesinaziel- a cleric of Beshaba- was influencial enough on Lilith to semi-indcut her into her own faith, Lilith began making the occasional offering to Beshaba.
Rianeth
Lilith's "best friend", though Lilith is quite aware that Rianeth would probably sell her into slavery in exchange for a peanut. She can't trust her, and knows this, but is prone to sometimes pretending she can anyway.
Kranis
If Lilith's life were to have a "true love", it would be Kranis. She lives in perpetual fear and worship of him. She has long since realized that Kranis detests her, and everything about her, and that he will likely never show her affection.
In place of this, Lilith had instead chosen to misbehave as much as possible as a means to garner attention, which has led to her most recent interaction with Kranis: he slapped her and declared he is glad he won't have to put up with her "for much longer".
This hurt her, very much.
Arizima
Arizima was another cause for her shift to CE, though not as severe as Torin. Zima was a Sharran tiefling that abandoned the faith in favor of lesbians and Tymora, and completely sold out Lilith and everything she knew about her. Lilith was hunted extensively and had to go into hiding for a long period of time just to remain alive, after this. She hates her very, very much.
J.
J. Azaheir was a very strong instance of love/hate, though the hate was probably stronger. They were prone to having violent sex during heated arguments. J probably loved Lilith quite a bit more than Lilith cared for him, as he became genuinely hurt when Lilith raped La'feil in an alley, but eventually agreed with her that she did nothing wrong.
When J vanished, Lilith was hurt in a way, but mostly only because she was bored. Bored, and as she soon discovered, pregnant. She detests his memory.
Neikos(?)
Only possibly influencial to her, Neikos reminds Lilith of J in some ways. They share a similar love/hate relationship, though were prone to cuddling in public (very much unlike Lilith/J, who made it appear as though they hated eachother as much as possible in public), and tried to mutilate eachother in private. The mutilation was ... more sensual.
Then they started playing rape-tag. Niekos fed Lilith copious amounts of laudanum, then (made her believe that he) raped her while she was passed out. Lilith fed him fey chocolate and they had sex again, then Neikos styxed Lilith until she had no memory left (as he believed it was impossible to rape her as long as she were in posession of her memory) and brutally raped her.
This left her in a horribly traumatized state to be descrubed further later on.
Naut
Lilith thinks Naut is a wuss, but she actually does like him. He's the only person who has ever been nice to her, without being annoying. She doesn't think she deserves someone being nice to her, in fact she thinks she deserves exactly how it is right now, Naut pissed off, but she's selfish and doesn't care-- she wants him to stop being mad.
She hates lying to him, the only thing she's ever lied about is her son, and thinks they are remarkabley similar people (this would likely offend him very much, if he knew she thought so).
Naut actually inspires much softer emotions in Lilith, she finds this unnerving yet curious.
Rupture
Lilith's son is, second to Kranis, the most important person to her. She actually behaves like a reasonable, motherly individual to him (or, as much so as a psychotic, drug-addled chaotic evil is capable of doing, which for her is remarkabley close though slightly twisted).
She is desperately afraid, bordering on paranoid insanity, that Kranis will discover she has a son and kill him. She does everything within her power to prevent anyone from finding out, because she believes that anyone who knows will inadvertently allow Kranis to find out, and then both she and her son will die.
People dear to her: Kranis, Rianeth, Nautilus, Rupture
People and events that would be in her heart if one were to journey into it.
People :
Herself pre-amnesia as a haughty drow b***h, a delusional figment of J that follows her around and second-guesses everything she does (a result of J doing this to her as a means of revenge), Torin's cousin (whose family she was adopted by postamnesia) calling her a monster and being extremely frightened of her, the twisted Kranis/Rianeth dynamic, Torin (whom beat and abused her both physically and mentally before finally running off with Pfil), probably Naut, her much-loved son, and a dash of Chimera Lilith (rape victim traumatized Lilith who mostly just curled up into a ball and cried)
Events: She has a complete absence of fond childhood memories, her childhood would feel "cold to the touch". Her first instance of amnesia which left her confused (but untraumatized unlike the second) and wanting to learn more about herself. She eventually, while in Santa Lucia, found out she was in fact a shape changing demon and found this very frightening, she believed that Torin (with whom she was involved at the time) would reject her if he knew, and never did tell him.
Santa Lucia also slowly drove her mad, due to being.. itself. She slowly became assimilated into being "herself" again, or at least, much more jaded/streetwise/slightly more "evil".
Torin's eventual rejection of her for pfil, after she put up with a world of "s**t" from him was the catalyst for her eventual downfall to chaotic evil and into further levels of madness, and she slowly became more and more afraid/reverant of Kranis, until he was simply an intangible symbol to her.
Particular events that would stand out, would be Kranis beating her with a flail, Kranis threatening to kill her for being found by her family, Kranis later threatening to kill her if she doesn't serve her family, Kranis hugging her in Skullport, and Kranis slapping her and telling her that he's glad he 'won't have to put up with her much longer".
Kranis also sacrificed J to a demon prince, in exchange for a handful of succubi. This was also very hurtful.
The traumatic rape she suffered from Neikos would have a very prominent place, this is a thing of great conflict for herself. On the one hand, she wants Neikos carnally and finds the fact that he would go to such lengths just to damage her to be very flattering. With her memory (and therefore various insanities) restored she garners a small degree of pleasure from the memory, but is still severely traumatized by it and wishes to avoid Neikos.
She also really wishes Naut would be nice to her again. A particular standoutish Naut memory would probably be them dancing in the South Wall, it was a moment of confusion for Lilith, as she's never engaged in "normal courting procedures", usually she's just a slut and has sex a lot.
People she feels remorse over for wronging.
N/A
Past Liliths, And Various Aspects Of Herself.
Lilith With Regards To Kranis
Entierly subservient, she does anything he asks. She doesn't serve him loyally enough to do what she thinks she would ask, and will often try to "bend the rules" by making sure he doesn't learn of certain affairs, so she can move freely with regards to them.
For example: Rianeth wants Lilith to procure her from Simon. Lilith knows that if Kranis finds out she has Rianeth, at any point, he will ask for her. Rianeth doesn't want to go to Kranis. So long as Kranis never finds out Lilith has her, she doesn't need to give her to Kranis. If Kranis finds out and asks for Rianeth, Lilith would immediately turn her over.
She feels completely crushed and broken by Kranis, and is prone to watching him when she doesn't think he can see her, as a substitute for actually spending time with him. She longs for his acceptance, but knows she will never receive it.
Lilith with regards to Nautilus
Very toned down, less prone to violence and all around much "softer", by far the happiest and least angsty Lilith-mood. Notabley she doesn't despise herself.
With With Regards To Torin and Love In General
Hurt, but trying to cover up over it. Similar in many ways to the other two, though they each have their own "spin off" as described above. Lilith overcompensates by her feelings of affection in others by trying to act more demon-like.
Example; to convince herself she is not capable of feeling an emotion like love, she drives herself to perform the most heinos and despicable acts she can think of, because love in many cases is simply pain, and she doesn't want to deal with pain.
To not deal with pain, she insists she is a demon and isn't capable of caring, and then will, as stated above, try to act like she truly is a demon. This goes on and on and on in a loop.
Chimera Lilith
Essentially Lilith at her most innocent. Stripped of all memory, and then immediately brutally raped, 'Chimera' Lilith is afraid of most everything. She was only able to force herself to continue through each day by the knowledge that she had a son somewhere she had to locate, because he could be in danger.
Initial Amnesia Lilith
Chaotic Neutral, self-serving, but distinctly not /evil/. She did not kill people. She would lie, cheat, and steal, but she was sane and she wouldn't kill anyone.
Santa Lucia changed this drastically. Death became completely meaningless, and Lilith slowly but surely developed a firm belief that she is completely invincible.I don't really expect miracles (no offense to you lot), but I figure I may as well ask incase I get lucky and someone has some stroke of genius. Really, I'd be tickled pink to just get a little help "brainstorming", complete ideas are not necessary at all.
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:02 am
I don't think this helps at all but I've always considered characteristics/thoughts/other functions of the brain as individual threads (as in strings) of color. And I always color in gem names, not color-names.
For example, thoughts of bravery or the characteristic of bravery would be seen (any time Mek uses telepathy) in a shade of sapphire. Someone who has a skewed version of what bravary means/is might be tinged with shadows.
Anyway, that's how I do it. That probably won't work for you but it's an idea that I kind of ganked and reworked from Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince series.
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:48 am
Hm... well, to be honest, I didn't read it all, because I didn't quite know what you're looking for, but brainstorming- that I can at least pitch in.
As I read the parts of her personality, and what makes up her past of hates and horrible memories, I had a few niggling lil' ideas- one being a dark sort of muse at the metaphorical core- something/someone who changes due to need, and is essentially ugly and cruel- angry, jealous... and alternately vain.
Or- something like a chorus- drawing into her (mother's?) religious background, a sort of chorus of different emotions and memories who have taken the form of people. Or, similarly, a council of some kind in which the members are wisps of memory of people, as well as emotions and symbolic things in the form of people/creatures/etc., that loom up against a backdrop of something symbolic and poignant- like a certain memory/person in chains.
I also had a vision of a thing like a prison- an oubliette, upon which are chained to the dank walls different people, memories, emotions- some being tortured to symbolize her hatred, others just... alone, and shackled- to symbolize her loss. I thought mainly about that because then the only piece of light would be at the very top, out of reach- almost mockingly shining down- hardly an escape.
Just quick brainstorms. Sorry there aren't more/not more in depth. ^_~
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:38 pm
Em's ideas are far better for someone planning to go into and explore someone's mind rather than reading it from an outside location. 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:00 am
Thanks to both of you! heart
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:29 am
I'm looking for an artist whose portfolio isn't limited to bishies. Now, I luff bishies, but my beef is that I cannot find anyone who can effectivly draw my character who is a slightly out-of-shape guy in his late 30s. Now, he doesn't have to be ugly, but he definatly isn't scrawny and young, which is all I seem to get. xd The only person who came close was Woe, but as I can't afford many RL commissies at the moment what I bought from her was just a headshot. I'd really like at least a waist-up.
If anyone knows anyone who might be able to do someone like this (apart from Woe xd ) I'd be really grateful.
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:58 am
Cartagia I'm looking for an artist whose portfolio isn't limited to bishies. Now, I luff bishies, but my beef is that I cannot find anyone who can effectivly draw my character who is a slightly out-of-shape guy in his late 30s. Now, he doesn't have to be ugly, but he definatly isn't scrawny and young, which is all I seem to get. xd The only person who came close was Woe, but as I can't afford many RL commissies at the moment what I bought from her was just a headshot. I'd really like at least a waist-up. If anyone knows anyone who might be able to do someone like this (apart from Woe xd ) I'd be really grateful. Ironically, Woe knows someone apart from Woe. I think.... There are more - you'd probably want to ask Anetra because she did her men who look like men auction. I was going to suggest looking up DeZarin.
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:18 pm
DeZarin is excellent, but a little on the expensive/auction-only side when it comes to gaia commissions. Um. Here, if you want to take a look at the people I found for the Men Who Look Like Men auction, the thread is http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20833037Though you should note that, um, if you want to try and commission Jax, Foofer, Fae, or WhackyCracky.. "good luck". Those are people I know off gaia that I coerced into being in my auction. I really have no idea if they're interested in taking commissions or not.
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:44 pm
Anetra_Pendragon DeZarin is excellent, but a little on the expensive/auction-only side when it comes to gaia commissions. Um. Here, if you want to take a look at the people I found for the Men Who Look Like Men auction, the thread is http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20833037Though you should note that, um, if you want to try and commission Jax, Foofer, Fae, or WhackyCracky.. "good luck". Those are people I know off gaia that I coerced into being in my auction. I really have no idea if they're interested in taking commissions or not. I'm , like, aobu tot hurt myself for having forgotten about Earthkid. i love his work.
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:59 am
^^ Thanks to you both for helping! I really like some of those artists, I'll need to see if they have any Gaia slots open. heart
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