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@_@ I think you lost me when you started talking percents. With the Antag system in place, you don't need to start talking about mecha comparisons in terms of percentage. The only reason I suggested Super Robot Wars for comparison was to gauge RP-wise how the mechs would do against each other in a "Is a Gundam really more powerful than a Valkyrie fighter?" kind of way. The answer I expect to that question is in a "Yes it is" rather than a "Because of the drag coefficient of the ailerons in Fighter Mode compared to the mass and density of the gundanium alloy, in zero g combat, The VF-1S would have the maneuverability necessary to continually depart from the Zero Wing's firing arc while maintaining the ability to fire depleted uranium SABOT rounds of .25 caliber. However, since these rounds have no penetration capability on gundanium alloy, and since the VF-1S is powered by a protoculture reactor capable of producing power for 25 years, the end result is a standstill." *deep breath*

The way I developed Antag is the way this thread stated GG was going towards: recycle, reuse, reduce, streamline. While the fleshing out of the world is important, creating a world in which the player characters are weighed down by OOC statistics runs contrary to the thread's goal.

Also, I'd like to take this moment to remind everyone that Antag's Success/Failure point system is meant to allow people to do extraordinary things. The context is, "Okay guys, I'm gonna do something pretty crazy, here's one S/F point, so get ready for it!" rather than "I have 5/5 S/F points available to me, so my mecha beats yours."



To take the conversation back to the point before the percentages came in, yes, for the most part, it is safe to assume that a single variable mecha is more agile, and less armored and armed than a non-variable mecha of the same composition. Not all land-based mecha are walking tanks though, remember that Evangelions are agile and have little in the way of hardpoints, and also remember that Gundam Wing Zero is a variable fighter with the armament and armor characteristic of a tank.

Also, what penalty are we talking about here in regards to custom mechs? This part confuses me because it's stated Officers pick their own craft, and this choice determines what kind of squad they command....yet it's also stated that if the officers pick what they command, they get custom mechs without penalty. The implication is that there is a way to be penalized. ...but the custom mecha determines the command. sweatdrop

Hrm. Ok, here we go.

"Sir, combat analysis complete!"
"Let's have it, Corporal."
"Hostile has Rank A offensive capabilities sir! Defensive capabilities listed at Rank C due to average controls and armor composition."
"Alright, do we have any Rank A defensive craft with Rank C or higher damage output?"
"Sir, we have two Defender EXs and one Tomahawk II on standby."
"Alright, we'll send them in then."

Ranks:
A - God Mode
B - Powerful
C - Most Mecha Are Here
D - Sluggish
F - Back to the Drawing Board

Using letters to avoid using numbers with a / since we're using numbers with /'s to identify S/F points. Also, Rank A sounds cooler. 3nodding

I would think that addition of +/- would flesh this out a bit more. Rank A vs. Rank B is one thing, but then again A+ vs. B- could be considered a more noticeable gap than say, A- vs. B+. In the latter case, external factors and great piloting RP could make a difference easier to attain. (I also cant help but to think of the Marvel system of Amazing, Incredible, Remarkable, Excellent, Good, Average, Poor, Bad. They had numbers associated with each as well.)



Ive no clue myself, but anyway thoughts on customization:

Especially in Macross/Robotech, most 'Officer' types are really just standardized mechs that have an 'add on' (ie FAST pack, different gun pod, reactive armor, etc.) or have been tweaked to perform better/to the pilot's liking allowing it to seem as if it is different. For Battloids even, most of the differences are just aestetic.

Also, part of the fun from a RP perspective is that having various, non matching units provides a challenge on some occasions. Recon mission but have no recon type mecha in your squad? uh oh, time to improvise and deal with the results. In the past for those that didnt have mecha, I usually issued something 'cheap, plain, but with potential'. People will appreciate things a lot more in the long run to work for what they've acquired and hopefully it'd give them some sorta drive to work for something better. Standardization with performance options/benefits perhaps.

EDIT: Just came to mind that customization that deviates from the original mecha outline should be hella expensive, time consuming to the point you cant use it and even then expect a lot of dangerous/irritating test failures, and/or certain situations always place the unit at risk. (Anyone remember the Zent ghetto mechs scavenged and rebuilt from whatever they could find during their stay in S. America?) Most were walking timebombs, but that was part of the fun in piloting one. xd

Probably should set down definitions at this point for what we're talking about:

Standardized Mecha: All mecha fit under one model name/designation: "VF-1D Valkyrie" would be one example.

Custom Mecha: Each pilot gets to choose their own mecha from any series. Five pilots of the same rank might have an X-Wing, a Voltron Lion, an MS-08TX Efreet, a Hargun Space Type, and an AGWS respectively.

Customized Mecha: Customized is what would happen if your mecha were given the treatment that the cars selected for the MTV show, "Pimp My Ride" are. But instead of popcorn makers next to the shifter, we're usually talking about unique weaponry, better armor, and a sentient operating system.

I'd like Custom Mecha, what the ASDF currently has, to stay in as an option for officer ranks. I'd like Standardized Mecha to be the mecha assigned to enlisted ranks. I'd really not like to deal with Customized Mecha.

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I purposefully was vague on the mecha ranking. One of the things that influenced me in this decision was a basic tenet of good RP: You can tell a person how good you are, or you can show them how good you are. Back when I used to MUSH, there were two girls I knew: one who had in her character's description that she was heartbreakingly beautiful, and one who had described herself fairly ordinarily "I have blonde hair, brown eyes...". The beautiful girl made sure to tell everyone in her RP that she was beautiful "This beautiful girl gave him a smile that would stop hearts." However, the one who was hit on the most wasn't the beautiful girl, but the ordinary one. She never said 'beautiful' in her descriptions of her actions. She never hit anyone over the head with the "I'm pretty, dammit!" mallet...but she showed through her RP that she was.

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Yeah, I definitely remember the Malcontent Zentraedi mecha. That sort of thing was definitely fun, but it fit the theme of the Malcontents: they were a ragtag bunch with limited resources that worked with what they had. The theme of the GNG is a nation's military, usually modeled after U.S. military forces. I have always looked at the ASDF's custom mecha with the thought, "there's probably an ASDF base that has a full squadron of these mecha the others pilot." The exceptions of course being Lindy's mecha and the experimental R-Types. Because of this thought, I have been easily able to remove all consideration of logistics, which has never been fun for anyone, unless they're RPing a ragtag team living from job to job. *wonders how many kids have said, "I wanna be an accountant when I grow up!" xd *

My BMR lists a large number of LRMs, so I'll assume LRM10s
My BMR lists a large number of ACs, but no "heavy AC"s.

First, lets strip ammo and heat from the game.
(Also, lets make weight proportional to damage, but that's not for this post.)

Lets assume those are LRM 10s and AC/4s:

The first Madcat would have a base dps of 2, with a random bonus of 0-4. That works out to 1+1d5 (You can't roll less than 1, so if all the missiles miss you cause 2 damage. If all the missiles hit, that's 4 damage, and 1+5=6=2+4).

The second would have a base dps of 0.4, with a random bonus of 0-4.
That works out to -0.6+1d5 (Roll a 1 and you do 0.4 damage, roll a 5 and you do 4.4 damage).

Where did I get these numbers? A round in BT is 10 seconds, and the damage that each weapon does per round is listed. Ergo, in 1/10th the time we can say they average 1/10th the damage.

All that remains is to standardize on what one point of damage is for a mech, and we'll end-up with something like the floating-point b*****d child of battlebots and MtG.

I reiterate my proposal for some threads to be tagged [Numbers Heavy] for those of us who like to RP with a calculator.

Random note: I'm in favor of limiting the total variety of mecha across the branches (read: if we do draw them from anime and gaming, let it be from only four sources max).

Thank you. sweatdrop (I can barely take a ten-key test without breaking into a sweat.)



In that case I'd vote for two right off the bat:

-Robotech Palladium (incl. Macross) should surely be one since there's so much info you can grab from the net and for Eileen and myself there'd be a good background/knowledge base.

-Looks like a lot of ppl are into BattleTech. (I have an old Liao book lying around somewhere.) Seems perfect for destroid and ground users since LAMS never were worth the trouble.

http://www.kerensky.tierranet.com/btech/mechlab/mchphoenixhawk.gif
http://www.fortalezarpg.galeon.com/battletech/dibujos/mechs/rifleman.gif

Ok, so the two series we have so far are Robotech/Macross and the Robotech/Macross rip-off papergame.

I love battletech, but I have to stay honest about it's roots. 3nodding