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 Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:47 am
rmcdra Blood_Testimony Less literal in what sense, (ps i'm not sure how to do the awesome multiquote thing so i'll try and do all at once) I just remember them going out and being nailed to crosses as christ said to pick up your cross and follow me, and they went out, leaving their homes, and their lives and preaching the good news of Mark 1:15 "the time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is near, Repent and believe in the good news!" they went out and did what they were told to of healing the sick, casting out demons, being hated for following christ, and paul rebuked them for falling back into sin as was told in the old testament, (granted not all the OT) and food laws didn't apply, but being lukewarm got the response of being vomited out of his mouth. It takes practice but it's not hard to do the multiquoting thing. Less than literal meaning they had to stretch interpretations of the OT in order to make Jesus fit the role they were putting him into. Have you read the arguments of why Judaism does not accept Jesus as messiah? It's based on a very literal interpretation of the OT. The number one reason is Jesus' lineage. He is a Jew because of being a child of Mary but he is regarded as tribeless. Why? Because one of the major claims in Christianity is that he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, meaning anyway you cut it he is a b*****d child, thus has no claim to being part of the tribe of Judah. Yes one could argue that he was adopted into the tribe of Judah but because he was not Joseph's literal son, he has no claim to lineage to David and thus no claim to being the Jewish Messiah. That doesn't include the verse in Numbers where it clearly states "God is not a man", or the verses in Deuteronomy that states that "A prophet of God will not tell people to disobey the Law of Moses". This is what I mean by "less than literal" because a literal interpretation blows the whole religion out of the water. Quote: The greek idea of telling a story, also wasn't giving out the facts, but it was to give the real teaching, to portray the real message, rather than to use Q (the list of all jesus said) and quote it, but they'd lay out the theology, or the truth of the message and that's what we've got as a text today. Yes this was the common for most of the ancient world. Quote: The cannon of hebrew scripture wasn't complete, but what was written after 400 BC wasn't accepted by the church, jerome, josephus all rejected them, and jesus never quoted them, but were reinstated to agree with church doctrines of the catholic church. sad sad sad The entire Bible was put together the way it is to agree with Catholic Theology. All modern Bibles are Catholic because they still are either translations of the Vulgate or based on St. Jerome's notes on compiling the Vulgate. The only thing different about "protestant Bibles" is that they have texts removed from them to support general protestant stances. Quote: Jesus's teachings also continually rejected the idea of promoting a movement, or preserving an ethnic identity, but called people to through out that idea entirely in favor of following the will of the Father (god) like he said the greatest commandment was to love god with all your heart and strength and mind, etc. what do you think? Yes that is true he did say that but any social group will have a group identity and goals for the group. The Christian group identity is that we are decendants of Adam and though being Gentiles were adopted into a new Covenant to take part in the Kingdom of God through Christ. Loving the Lord your God and Loving Your Neighbor as yourself is the ideal that Christians as a Group move toward and actively promote. Granted each group has a different method and ideas about how this should be accomplished, the fact remains that this is what Christians move toward. I follow your arguement, but the issue for marriage is that their idea of sonship is different than for most of our culture, the legal father of jesus was joseph, and mary, by being a descendant of nathan, son of david, was of the tribe of judah. If you want to see it through the modern day lense, picture saying to a father of adopted children that he raised since they were even six months old, that is not your son, that is not your daughter. That's a bit closer to how it worked in jewish culture. Jesus came to fulfill the law, and the central part of the arguement (debate) between you and i on the jewish interpretation lies in the idea that laws were created for man, not man created for laws. If you accept there is a god, and jesus as being his son, that god is over our heads, and a lot of what he says in scripture just flies a bit over our heads, thus the holy spirit. The book of Isaiah is a good place for that kind of thing, but Christ fulfilled the old testament, that's what he came to do. You can either read the text intending to get truth out of it, or read it as a critic trying to find fault. I'm not saying anyone does any of these, but christ took the old testament and showed us god's heart through it, that's how it clicks. I'm pretty sure most of the bible's I've used are based of the greek text, though the vulgate had more to work with with there being roughly 8000 manuscripts, versus the 5400 in greek, but jerome himself shot down the apocrypha and emphatically outcast it. It was put in by a later set of catholics and it's been rejected by most of them. From my experience, small as it may be, the theology of the bible as i read it, conflicts with the catholic faith. I'm curious why you use the term social group. My gut tells me you've got an education behind such jargon.
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:02 pm
Blood_Testimony I follow your arguement, but the issue for marriage is that their idea of sonship is different than for most of our culture, the legal father of jesus was joseph, and mary, by being a descendant of nathan, son of david, was of the tribe of judah. If you want to see it through the modern day lense, picture saying to a father of adopted children that he raised since they were even six months old, that is not your son, that is not your daughter. That's a bit closer to how it worked in jewish culture. And that is a liberal interpretation of 1 Chronicles 22: 7-10: 7. And David said to Solomon, "My son, as for me, it was in my heart to build a House in the name of the Lord my God. 8. But the word of the Lord was upon me, saying: 'You have shed much blood, and you have waged great wars; you shall not build a House in My Name because you have shed much blood to the ground before Me. 9. Behold a son will be born to you; he will be a man of peace, and I shall give him peace from all his enemies around about, for Solomon will be his name, and I shall give peace and quiet to Israel in his days. 10. He shall build a House in My Name, and he shall be to Me as a son, and I to him as a Father, and I shall prepare the throne of his kingdom forever.' There's nothing wrong with a liberal interpretation but that's what it is. By not being the biological son of Joseph, he literally does not fulfill this. As you have demonstrated, you have to take a less than literal interpretation for it to work. Quote: Jesus came to fulfill the law, and the central part of the arguement (debate) between you and i on the jewish interpretation lies in the idea that laws were created for man, not man created for laws. If you accept there is a god, and jesus as being his son, that god is over our heads, and a lot of what he says in scripture just flies a bit over our heads, thus the holy spirit. No they believe that laws were made for man. The difference lies in if such following the laws when intuitively unjust should still be followed. "Following the letter of the law" vs. "Following the spirit of the law". Example: Matthew 12:1-7. Here it is demonstrated that Jesus stance is that if it is unjust and doesn't follow the "spirit of the law" then it can be disobeyed with no foul. The letter of the law though says Exodus 31:13-15 that disobeying this law for any reason means one should be put to death. It's demonstrated too in Numbers 15:32-36 with someone doing something very similar to Jesus in Matthew yet the person was stoned to death. That is so true btw. Quote: The book of Isaiah is a good place for that kind of thing, but Christ fulfilled the old testament, that's what he came to do. Well yeah much of Christianity's stance regarding Jesus depends on Isaiah and Jesus quotes Isaiah quite frequently. Quote: I'm pretty sure most of the bible's I've used are based of the greek text, though the vulgate had more to work with with there being roughly 8000 manuscripts, versus the 5400 in greek, But they still have to use St. Jerome's notes in compiling the Vulgate to compile the Bible from the Original Greek sad Quote: but jerome himself shot down the apocrypha and emphatically outcast it. It was put in by a later set of catholics and it's been rejected by most of them. Also there is more than one theology supported in the Bible. It is an anthology of Christian and Jewish literature. For more on this you can look into the New Oxford Annotated Bible. Individually each texts supports a different theology. Collectively and through particular filters though they can be used to support a universal theology. Quote: From my experience, small as it may be, the theology of the bible as i read it, conflicts with the catholic faith. Quote: I'm curious why you use the term social group. My gut tells me you've got an education behind such jargon. "two or more humans who interact with one another, share similar characteristics and collectively have a sense of unity." We might want to continue this discussion in a new thread. Don't want to derail this thread. Edit: I just realized how ironic it is that a Gnostic like me is defending the Catholic faith lol XD
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:52 pm
Yeah, it's getting too long to follow and even too long to type. May as well talk about it some other place, so i'm game, and alas the introductions forum is free to fulfill its purpose once more
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:32 pm
first Name: Just call me panda
Age: 16
Religion: Muslim
What drew you to this guild? I was invited
Influential quote:
"Yesterday is History
Tomorrow is a Mystery
Today is a Gift, that's why
its called a Present."
-not sure who made that saying up
Additional note: im really looking forward to ask some questions~ And if you have any for me im more than welling to answer.
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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:21 am
iSNP first Name: Just call me panda Age: 16 Religion: Muslim What drew you to this guild? I was invited Influential quote: "Yesterday is History Tomorrow is a Mystery Today is a Gift, that's why its called a Present." -not sure who made that saying up Additional note: im really looking forward to ask some questions~ And if you have any for me im more than welling to answer. Welcome Panda. I'm glad to see you here. That's a good quote too. We look forward to having your questions.
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:05 am
First Name: In an attempt at privacy, just call me Aranork. If you get to know me, you'll know me.
Age: 22
Religion: Christianity
Denomination: United Methodist
What drew you to this guild?
The chance for intellectual discussion on a matter that affects my entire life.
Influential quote:
Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone. --RMS
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:53 am
Aranork First Name: In an attempt at privacy, just call me Aranork. If you get to know me, you'll know me. Age: 22 Religion: Christianity Denomination: United Methodist What drew you to this guild? The chance for intellectual discussion on a matter that affects my entire life. Influential quote: Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone. --RMS Welcome Aranork. I grew up United Methodist. Feel free to start a new topic or jump into an existing one.
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Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:56 pm
First Name: Jennifer
Age: 21
Religion: Christianity
Denomination: Baptist/ Southern Baptist. *My current church is a Southern Baptist church)
What drew you to this guild?: Well, I was invitied. But I browsed through and decided that I should join.
Influential quote:
"Returning hurt for hurt never helped anyone."
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Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:58 pm
Melody Trinity Ann First Name: Jennifer Age: 21 Religion: Christianity Denomination: Baptist/ Southern Baptist. *My current church is a Southern Baptist church) What drew you to this guild?: Well, I was invitied. But I browsed through and decided that I should join. Influential quote: "Returning hurt for hurt never helped anyone." Welcome Jennifer.
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:13 am
This is for all members to introduce themselves to the guild.
First Name: Fiona
Age: Too old to trust (Never trust anyone over 30.)
Religion: Protestant Christianity
Denomination: United Methodist
What drew you to this guild?
About the second thing I did upon joining Gaia was to search for a "Christian" guild that understood Christ's teachings more as I understand them and less as Pat Robertson understands them.
Influential quote:
"Sometimes at that moment a wave of light breaks into our darkness, and it is as though a voice were saying: "You are accepted. You are accepted, accepted by that which is greater than you, and the name of which you do not know. Do not ask for the name now; perhaps you will find it later. Do not try to do anything now; perhaps later you will do much. Do not seek for anything; do not perform anything; do not intend anything. Simply accept the fact that you are accepted!" If that happens to us, we experience grace After such an experience we may not be better than before, and we may not believe more than before. But everything is transformed. In that moment, grace conquers sin, and reconciliation bridges the gulf of estrangement. And nothing is demanded of this experience, no religious or moral or intellectual presupposition, nothing but acceptance." - Paul Tillich
"Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things - trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that's a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We're just babies making up a game, if you're right. But four babies playing a game can make a playworld which licks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the play-world. I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia." - C.S. Lewis
Any other information you would like to share, feel welcome.
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:33 pm
Thank you very much for joining us Fiona. We'll take what you say with a grain of salt then wink . Love the quotes you choose by the way. They are so true in my experience so far. Look forward to seeing your posts.
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:39 pm
rmcdra Thank you very much for joining us Fiona. We'll take what you say with a grain of salt then wink . Love the quotes you choose by the way. They are so true in my experience so far. Look forward to seeing your posts. Thank you. And yes, Tillich's "You are accepted" is a real go-to for me. Always seems to help me through my 'ecclesiastes moments'.
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:26 pm
Thank you for allowing me to be in this guild. Thank God for other Christians, and the opportunity for fellowship. Thank God for the bounty that I am about to partake in (and God forgive me for fully intending to be a glutton).
I pray that you all are going to have a great Thanksgiving Day, and that if you are not with the ones that you love at this moment that you are soon.
God bless you all,
Amen.
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:23 pm
First Name biggrin MJ
What drew you to this guild? Someone or someones who are masochists invited me. Not sure why anyone invites me to guilds actually.
Influential quote razz ick one.
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:25 pm
deadmanjay First Name biggrin MJ What drew you to this guild? Someone or someones who are masochists invited me. Not sure why anyone invites me to guilds actually. Influential quote razz ick one. Welcome, and happy thanks giving
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