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 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:05 pm
I am uncertain what the issue Icee has with editing a sub-forum would be. In all honesty, I can't think of what else one would really do with moderator privileges and a mandate to only moderate a sub-forum. The ability to lock, sticky, and announce all fall under the category of editing. Being able to edit posts and threads as needed is also editing. What other, non-editing based, powers would a mod be expected to use?
I can PM the current Heads of House to do all the moderation tasks for me, and should that be what is decided, that is what I'll do. However, since the quidditch forums inception several weeks ago I've probably asked for about 9 or 10 things ranging from deleting spammers, to stickying threads several times, to locking a thread, to deleting a bump to a long-dead game thread that had not yet been locked. That list isn't including some of the "clean and tidy" edits that could get done. In the mean time, the Heads of House discuss how they have less and less time available. Icee has said herself that because of all the stuff that's been happening she hasn't had the time to make the PM'd changes requested of her by Fawcett. Wouldn't my own requests only further that workload placed upon her?
I can understand that you are weary of post editing and deleting, but it helps to have a clearer understanding of the style of play in order to see what I'm getting at. Uninformed decisions about what is or is not necessary in the quidditch forum just seems... well... uninformed. People roll their dice and need to adjust the roll mathematically. Being able to quickly edit and fix any mistakes helps. Not everyone is a math genius, and there is no penalty or vicious intent when someone miscalculates. It's also not worth adding several posts for. The game also has a set turn order... one which seems to be causing people lots of problems. People need a sense of clarity or they get confused, and erroneous posts are only serving to further confuse people. If the incorrect posts are left up, other players often aren't sure which roll they should use. Lastly, People use the field to debate and discuss things. It's difficult to play when you must scroll through a page of discussion to find the roll you are trying to compare your own roll to. Adding posts to that list to inform players not to post not only didn't work (I guess I have to enforce it more), it merely lengthened the list of non-game relate posts. Hopefully that gives a slightly better understanding of the kind of post editing I am suggesting.
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:30 pm
Why is it so important for there to only be a minute number of moderators in the first place?
Also... the thing about miss_fawcett PMing Icee for updates. I think we need to devise a better system for updating things or let these people become moderators. If miss_fawcett is only asking you, Icee, to make all these updates, and you don't have time to do it all, it shouldn't be up to you to contact someone else for the help. That's too much work for one person. Especially when your time on Gaia is limited enough as it is. You say its absurd that these people should get mod status, but if you're not doing what you say you're gonna do, that slows things up to an absurd level.
We've got to devise a way for these people in control of certain areas to have what they need to keep the guild moving along efficiently. And if we're not able to provide what they need as moderators, we may as well give them moderator status so they can do it themselves.
I don't think PMs are the answer here. I really don't like the idea that alot of the guildwork that needs to be done is done by PM. It's individual, and it doesn't let all the moderators involved in the situation. It's obviously alot easier for Phil's moderator needs to be heard and attended to when he posts on the S.F.Q. about the subforum changes he wants made. That way any moderator, not just one, can take that need and get the job done.
If we're not going to give Phil or miss_fawcett moderating powers, we need to be doing our part to get their needs heard in an efficient manner, or else we as moderators aren't doing what we're supposed to be doing. And that's a really bad sign.
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:45 am
First things first: The Duelling Club is one thread, the Quidditch Pitch is an entire forum. There is a bit of difference in the kind of editing needed to be done. And we aren't even taking into consideration that the Pitch is the type of forum the requires constant up-keep in multiple threads, at various times, and sometimes things can get done a lot more efficiently if a person can get them done themselves. This is not to belittle the efforts of Miss_Fawcett. I'm just saying that this is a bit more than an inconvenience for the person who really does all the up-keep, Philbert. Can you imagine needing to wait for someone else every time you get a burst of efficientness?? Maybe Miss_Fawcett should have mod powers too, I have no idea on that issue. But just about all the other threads, with the exception of maybe the classrooms, are pretty much self-running (needing only a bit of a prod here and there from their prospective keepers). Editing isn't exactly a super common thing in most of the other threads.
Secondly, I think that having multiple mods is always a good thing. I mean, someone who just posts a lot is one story, but for someone who is constantly helpful to the guild and could obviously get a lot more done if given the lee-way, I say all the power to them. There have been times when we've had 5 mods and I was the only one who hadn't fallen off the face of the earth. I realize we have Adonis to ensure that doesn't effect the guild too much. But, I think letting someone have mod powers for constant editing is a lot safer than letting someone have the password to the keeper of a great amount of accumulated gold and items, not to mention the guild itself.
Thirdly, yes I gave you powers for working an event. But this was because I knew I wasn't going to take care of the guild over Christmas (I was going home from an out-of-state school, no way was I going to ignore my family for the computer). The fact of the matter was that I knew you could give the guild the attention that I wouldn't be able to give, the event was merely gravy.
Finally, he's going to need to be able to edit the first post... Lets face it, most people don't really have the patience to read more than the first post of a thread. This isn't school or work, we shouldn't try to force them to work harder for their leisure activities. Nor should we really do that to poor Philbert (and maybe even Fawcett, but if she can make it work, then that's fine too). Plus, Philbert is kind of right, the majority of all moderating is really for is editing. (Philbert- I think it's partly the fact that you would have the ability to edit things that you shouldn't edit, really important things, even if it's just an accident... people accidentally delete threads, posts, or try to be helpful and end up making someone else's job harder. I think if you stick to the Quidditch Pitch than there shouldn't be a problem)
All I'm saying is that giving mod powers out for the sake of giving them out is a no-no, obviously. But if there is a real need for them, even if it's just to help keep the sanity of a member who works hard for our guild, why not give them their sanity? I think we have all have a moment when we're working on something for the guild and suddenly think "why on earth am I putting this much tedious effort into something I'm supposed to be doing for fun?" The answer is "because a little bit of tedious effort actually makes all the difference. It makes the guild more fun and fulfilling. It makes almost everyone enjoy it even more." But we all need to make sure we don't pass that line when we stop and think that we're putting in too much work and that it's not worth it anymore. The easier we make things for everyone, the easier it is for them to stop by and do their part. We don't want to make things so hard for the people who provide important pieces of the guild that they begin to avoid it like the dentist...
So, I say we should give him powers. If he finds that he doesn't really need them in time, then he can give up his powers for the sake simplicity. And I say, if Miss Fawcett needs them too (ex: if she still does anything like a lighting round, then it would be helpful to get them just to over-see the temporary chaos.), then why not let her have them. It's not like we'll never be able to take them away again... From where I'm standing, Philbert isn't really demanding the powers, he's pleading for them. So I don't think he'll be outrageously hurt if we tell him ahead of time that we might take them back at some point in the future and then actually do it in said future. The Heads need to make sure they always think benevolently; if it doesn't put the guild in immediate danger and it seems like the person really could use it, give it to them. If you're worried Philbert is going to crack and go around deleting threads, have him send a PM to all the mods saying that he understands that his moderating abilities are to be used only in the Quidditch Pitch, unless instructed otherwise by a Head-of House and that he can be banned and reported if he breaks those restrictions. And if you want to be really careful tell the thread creators that it would be a good idea to keep a copy of their important posts/threads in a word document. If you do it right, it shouldn't take up too much space. I mean, if you all knew how many HPGoG pictures and documents I have in my computer, you'd all probably back away in worry. And I have a lap-top, so not exactly an abundant amount of memory...
I don't expect to have a great deal of authority on this matter, but once again, I say all the power to him.... well... not all the power, just the moderating power... sweatdrop Fin.
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:31 am
Uhm maybe my suggestion isn't worth it here. But to inform you all about quidditch situation, i think i have to post here. Quidditch pitch have difficult rules. After someone roll a dice the next people ask what should they do next. They ask it at a thread where it suppose to be a playground, not a place to asking question, so it's disturb the game. Before someone roll captain have to order them first, but some player just roll without captain order them first, so phil has to warned her. But this person usually don't delete their previous post, and it's make other people confused. I ever receive penalty point for 24 hours waiting rules. But that happen because someone don't delete their previous post and make me waiting for her. If phil can delete and edit post the game will be much easier. About temporary or permanent mod power, i think it's not my job to put some suggestion.
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:08 am
Goodness, I didn't think this would be such a big issue. But for what my opinion is worth...I agree and value KT's take on the mod issue. Philbert isn't going to go power-hungry all of sudden when he gets mod powers. I can vouch that's he's a sensible chap. I've been in the Quidditch Pitch Forum a lot and yes, its a big thing to keep up & sometimes I don't fancy trying to edit it in fear of ruining something. So yes, give ol' Philbert ze mod powers. We need to be a little bit more lenient in allowing others to help run the guild when we all sometimes get caught up in RL.
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:08 pm
I would never have accused Phil of going power-hungry. No my main concern was making mods for every little thing. It seemed to me that if Phil can get modpowers (never said he wouldn't use them correctly) for running his club, then everyone else who runs a club should get it too (if they asked). It's not a question of trust because there's no reason for me not to trust Phil. It's a question of at what point is there too many moderation positions? It's not the powers that really unnerve me, it's the position. It'll be really hard describing that part but I see things in a way of purpose. The people who are mods now are Heads, and that to me fits perfectly. Maybe I just like things to be extremely ordered and whatnot, in which case I'm overdoing it a bit. I don't want there to be any serious misgivings between me and Phil so I'll PM him more about that peeve.
I brought up the question of miss_fawcett to explain things: to explain that even though the threads weren't as updated as they should, miss_fawcett devised a way of working around that for her thread.
The thing that is understandable to me is this: As of now Phil has a need for them so he should get them. I still don't think that it's anything that's necessary but I won't deny that it can't be helpful too.
I can't really speak for Alutian, but I think that her logic would be more in line with everyone else's. So Phil needs mod powers, Phil can get mod powers.
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:44 am
IceeWitch
I would never have accused Phil of going power-hungry. No my main concern was making mods for every little thing. It seemed to me that if Phil can get modpowers (never said he wouldn't use them correctly) for running his club, then everyone else who runs a club should get it too (if they asked). It's not a question of trust because there's no reason for me not to trust Phil. It's a question of at what point is there too many moderation positions? It's not the powers that really unnerve me, it's the position. It'll be really hard describing that part but I see things in a way of purpose. The people who are mods now are Heads, and that to me fits perfectly. Maybe I just like things to be extremely ordered and whatnot, in which case I'm overdoing it a bit. I don't want there to be any serious misgivings between me and Phil so I'll PM him more about that peeve.
I brought up the question of miss_fawcett to explain things: to explain that even though the threads weren't as updated as they should, miss_fawcett devised a way of working around that for her thread.
The thing that is understandable to me is this: As of now Phil has a need for them so he should get them. I still don't think that it's anything that's necessary but I won't deny that it can't be helpful too.
I can't really speak for Alutian, but I think that her logic would be more in line with everyone else's. So Phil needs mod powers, Phil can get mod powers.
Yay for Phil!
Just a note or two:
I wasn't trying to accuse you, Icee, and I'm sorry if you felt like I was attacking you or anything.... I was just trying to cover every possible reason that you or anyone else might be hesitant to give him powers. And, once again, I stress that the duelling club is one thread, where as the Quidditch teams are an entire subforum that acts as a fairly basic (and some would say essential) role in a Harry Potter Guild. I understand your desire for tidiness, but would it be so bad to add a "and staff* (*PhilbertTenderbean: Quiddich Referee...so and so: Caretaker or whatever)" to the end of the main page welcome splur?
I just think that it would be a good idea to keep an open mind when thinking about giving people the ability to do more for the guild. The members should be able to feel like they can actually do something for the guild if they want to. That they wont be stopped in their desire to do more because all the positions are already full... I agree, moderator powers can't go out to any Tom, d**k, or Sally but there will be times when we should make exceptions. May I remind you, Icee, that your own position was once thought to be fairly frivolous and not in need of moderator powers. Let's face it, every now and then a member will come along who does their best to go above and beyond and go out of their way just to do it. They just deserve these powers that will make their lives so much easier. If you like, you could create some sort of rule that any crew member aside from the Heads and Adonis who becomes inactive for over a month will have their crew status revoked until further notice. It's not really that big of a deal, in my opinion. We all have lives that we have to come back to every now and then, why not make it so there are more people able to pick up the slack? Or maybe even think about naming temporary subs for situations like exams or holidays. I realize that that's what the deputy heads are there for, but maybe we should decide to actually give those deputies moderating powers whenever a head either knows they're going to be missing or else disappears like I and so many others have... my goodness I ramble a lot...
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:34 pm
And that's what I meant when I said it needed discussion...I'm not against him having mod powers....and Icee, it's not just a club, it's an entire subforum!
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:56 am
I think we should talk about this in that Moderator's Subforum. I don't want any of the members to feel like there's tension w/ all the mods. I think issues like these should really be kept private.
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:07 pm
If this discussion were kept private, Phil wouldn't have gotten to have his say.
There's a reason we keep discussions like this in the Caretaker's office.
Besides, a bit of tension is necessary (not to mention inevitable) now and then to keep this guild thoughtful and in development. The fact that all the mods came together to talk about this subject is pretty cool I think, and is as it should be.
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:23 pm
Junimaia If this discussion were kept private, Phil wouldn't have gotten to have his say.
There's a reason we keep discussions like this in the Caretaker's office.
Besides, a bit of tension is necessary (not to mention inevitable) now and then to keep this guild thoughtful and in development. The fact that all the mods came together to talk about this subject is pretty cool I think, and is as it should be. Concurs...
3nodding
It has always been a general goal/standard that this guild be as open as possible with it's members. It's their guild too, after all, and they should always have a say in anything that could affect them now or in the future.
The way I see it; the mods are, in general, a group of fairly intelligent and level-minded people, thus they are mature enough to know the difference between civil debate and unnecessary, innconstructive argument. And I think that all the current mods conduct themselves in such a way. In order to keep any sort of peace, I think that it's very important that everyone make their full opinion known and to explain their opinion. Then a compromise that pleases everyone can be found. That's how you avoid tension. Note: I apologize if I've seemed a bit harsh. I just type as the thought comes to my head and I mean no one to feel singled out or blamed or whatever negative feeling... I have no patience for drama, so I sometimes forget when what I'm saying might cause any...
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:54 am
The mod forum is for making threads that arent ready to be open yet, or planning surprises...good stuff, not discussion like this.
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:34 am
Well it was just an opinion...maybe because I'm mostly a private type of person and don't like to face some issues publicly. I don't know, although I do agree on keeping the guild members informed. That comment I made was just for the sake of commenting I didn't mean to offend anyone if I did (I hope not). redface
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:51 pm
When I made the decision to post in a thread instead of this one I thought it would be fine. It seems I've missed a lot. I'll address the first posts (after my last one first)
Don't worry KT I never looked at it as you "accusing me"... I interpreted it as you disagreeing with my views (which is fine because no one can be in agreement all the time). It wouldn't be bad, and since it's something that needs to be done for the guild, I'll have to get over my personal preferences and such. One thing I want to point out: Yes mod powers should be given out...when absolutely necessary. There were times over the summer (particularly that banning process) where mods were made temporarily . One of the best things about this guild is that we never restrict people on helping out or having their say. To say you need modpowers just to be helpful is overdoing it. Mods generally oversee guild issues and updates. There are methods where a.... (if I had more time I'd keep on rambling, but I will stop for a number of reasons...I might get carried away and this take up an entire page)
There are other opinions that I have on this issue but at this point they seem unnecessary to point out.
I agree to an extent (with Juni/KT).. However I understand what Love is saying. We don't want the members thinking that something is going on (when it isn't)
It's good to have
hese type of discussions (that affect the guild's movement so to speak) in an open environment for others to see, but when it gets really heated (when people stop respecting other people's opinions and such) then it should be taken to another place because it becomes more personal.There have been times where a mod has been harsh or something and that is something that is dealt with in PMs. This particular discussion hasn't turned nasty, but through certain posts one could sense the tension building. I think the biggest thing here is that it needs to be understood that you can't/won't have your way all the time, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're being a shrew (nice word instead of the one I was thinking) or something. If these discussions come into play with everyone having an open mind (and keeping it) then it's fair and less noticeable tension would be present.
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:53 pm
I agree. It's important that we all have opinions. If any one person constantly got their way then it would be very hostile and such.
And now my question....we've agreed to give Phil mod powers? If so, why doesn't he have them yet? I don't want to go do it untill I'm sure everyone is in agreement.
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