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| Who did cloud like |
| Tifa |
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47% |
[ 118 ] |
| Aries |
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50% |
[ 125 ] |
| Yuffie |
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2% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 249 |
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 Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:10 pm
I didn't come here to debate; merely to express an opinion. Debating is absolutely pointless; because people are utterly biased and won't consider a thing you say, either way, on both sides. 8D A complete and utter waste of time. Thank you for listening to my opinion, though.
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:23 am
Lutearina I didn't come here to debate; merely to express an opinion. Debating is absolutely pointless; because people are utterly biased and won't consider a thing you say, either way, on both sides. 8D A complete and utter waste of time. Thank you for listening to my opinion, though. biased? Sure I hate Aeris but I don't use any biased remarks to prove my point (Like someone else I know) I use nothing but Character/creator quotes and logic to prove my point. A lawyer operates in the same manner. It doesn't mater how you feel about you're client, you're job is to present the evidence. It just so happens that the way I feel about Clotif actually coincide with the evidence presented, there for, makes it easier to argue. Also people who are biased usually use their personal opinion as fact or proof. I have not done that once in this whole argument but I know someone who has. There is just way more proof from the characters/creators supporting Clotif then Cleris. That's just the way it is.
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:14 am
Nice One Strawberrie that was a funny date lol but i think its because she always plotted to take his materia but ironically he saves her even after she steals it. But i think he loves both Tifa and Aeris equally but he just never shows it much.
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:49 pm
RanmaxHikaru Sure I hate Aeris but I don't use any biased remarks to prove my point (Like someone else I know) I use nothing but Character/creator quotes and logic to prove my point. A lawyer operates in the same manner. It doesn't mater how you feel about you're client, you're job is to present the evidence. It just so happens that the way I feel about Clotif actually coincide with the evidence presented, there for, makes it easier to argue. Also people who are biased usually use their personal opinion as fact or proof. I have not done that once in this whole argument but I know someone who has. There is just way more proof from the characters/creators supporting Clotif then Cleris. That's just the way it is. Paragraph One: That's not the definition of bias. People are biased without even knowing it, I meant to say that everyone's biased. My Social Studies teacher and I had this discussion; bias isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it still exists, and everyone has one, depending on their circumstances and experiences in life. :3 That's why it's pointless to debate, the opposition will never relent anyways. biggrin And who is this mysterious person who uses biased remarks to prove their point? Every single post I've seen here is most certainly biased in some way. There's no way around that.
Paragraph Two: Again, who is this person alluded to? I've already addressed the "everyone is biased" thing, so I'll leave it at that. :3
Paragraph Three: Again, that's an opinion. You see more CloTi evidence than Clerith. I find that utter bull. 8D Of course, that is both our biases speaking, and the way we examine things. Personalities and biases affect everything we do, and that's just the way it is.
(Ugh. I sound like a psychiatrist or something. Maybe I should be one when I grow up?! 8D They make good money, indeed. ninja )
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:01 pm
I don't think that debating is a waste of time. neutral Even though people hold firm onto their beliefs and fight pointless battles, we learn from these battles, such as how valid these "points' we bring up are. When someone brings up a false point, then we correct them and, ya know, we actually get to debate intellectually, using different sources and analyzing it.
So, Lutearina, going back to your opinion about Cloud "not" letting Aeris go. Keeping memories and letting go are two different things. neutral At the end of AC, we see Aeris and Zack walking into the light, concluding the movie, concluding the conflicts that Cloud went through- guilt. That guilt was let go and therefore he can live in peace with the people around him. The flowers on the desk are memoirs of Aeris. Plus, like RxH said, DoC didn't show the team wearing the ribbons, which means they have moved on. Aeris still lives on in their memories of course, but there's already proof that they moved on.
"Cloud and Tifa had no romantic progression. At all. For what now...Eight years?" - Lutearina
Okay........this statement is just ridiculous (no offense). Do you know WHY the two had no romantic progression? 1) He went off to become a SOLDIER. 2) He was stuck in a tube for quite a while. 3) Aeris was the one who pressed for a relationship leaving Tifa in the background. 4) Cloud was in an emotional wreck to begin with.
The only time where the two ACTUALLY got a chance to really spend time with each other was after the lifestream event where Cloud finally starts to develop his mind. (Gosh, I repeated myself for like a thousand times already....)
See, debating is fun. heart
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:46 pm
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:35 pm
Interesting! 8D I rather like the way you approach things, Twindream. 3nodding (By the way; you don't have to call me Lutearina, just Lute or Arina or Rina or something else is fine. sweatdrop Lutearina just sounds very formal. xD)
Now, let's see...What I meant when I said that Cloud didn't let go of Aerith, I didn't mean the guilt; I meant her memory. I think it's quite obvious Cloud received relievance from his guilt by the end of AC, for sure! whee
Yes, there are reasons for Cloud and Tifa not having romantic progression, but they haven't had romantic progression nonetheless.
Ah, also, I was wondering, how would you explain away Calling? What do you think the point of it is? I'm actually just interested in people's opinions of it, because I adored it. xD
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:28 am
Lutearina RanmaxHikaru Sure I hate Aeris but I don't use any biased remarks to prove my point (Like someone else I know) I use nothing but Character/creator quotes and logic to prove my point. A lawyer operates in the same manner. It doesn't mater how you feel about you're client, you're job is to present the evidence. It just so happens that the way I feel about Clotif actually coincide with the evidence presented, there for, makes it easier to argue. Also people who are biased usually use their personal opinion as fact or proof. I have not done that once in this whole argument but I know someone who has. There is just way more proof from the characters/creators supporting Clotif then Cleris. That's just the way it is. Paragraph One: That's not the definition of bias. People are biased without even knowing it, I meant to say that everyone's biased. My Social Studies teacher and I had this discussion; bias isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it still exists, and everyone has one, depending on their circumstances and experiences in life. :3 That's why it's pointless to debate, the opposition will never relent anyways. biggrin And who is this mysterious person who uses biased remarks to prove their point? Every single post I've seen here is most certainly biased in some way. There's no way around that.
Paragraph Two: Again, who is this person alluded to? I've already addressed the "everyone is biased" thing, so I'll leave it at that. :3
Paragraph Three: Again, that's an opinion. You see more CloTi evidence than Clerith. I find that utter bull. 8D Of course, that is both our biases speaking, and the way we examine things. Personalities and biases affect everything we do, and that's just the way it is. You just don't get it do you. It doesn't matter weather I like Cloud and Tifa or Cloud and Aeris... whatever.. The only thing that matters is what the characters and creators say. Cloud: "...I think it will be all right this time."
Cloud became very quiet for a moment. Then he said,
Cloud: "Because you're always with me."
Tifa: "I haven't always been with you."
Cloud: "That's how it will be starting from tomorrow," Cloud replied smiling again.
"There are many dimensions to Tifa's character. She's like a mother, a sweetheart, and a close ally in battle."
- Tetsuya Nomura
Nomura spoke in reference to a defining moment near the end of FF7. During an intimate moment, Tifa tells Cloud that "feelings aren't conveyed by words alone." Players are lead to their own conclusions, as they watch Cloud and Tifa wake up together the next morning.
The book goes on to retell everything that happened before and during the release of Advent Children. It all began with a script by Nojima that was "just a story about Cloud and Tifa and the kids". After several standstills due to other games, Square-Enix merged and the Advent Children project truly began.
"Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be living back home where they belonged."
- Kazushige NojimaNone of this is EVER said about Cloud and Aeris. EVER!!!! So there IS more evidence toward Cloud and Tifa weather you like it or not. Twindream I don't think that debating is a waste of time. neutral Even though people hold firm onto their beliefs and fight pointless battles, we learn from these battles, such as how valid these "points' we bring up are. When someone brings up a false point, then we correct them and, ya know, we actually get to debate intellectually, using different sources and analyzing it. So, Lutearina, going back to your opinion about Cloud "not" letting Aeris go. Keeping memories and letting go are two different things. neutral At the end of AC, we see Aeris and Zack walking into the light, concluding the movie, concluding the conflicts that Cloud went through- guilt. That guilt was let go and therefore he can live in peace with the people around him. The flowers on the desk are memoirs of Aeris. Plus, like RxH said, DoC didn't show the team wearing the ribbons, which means they have moved on. Aeris still lives on in their memories of course, but there's already proof that they moved on. "Cloud and Tifa had no romantic progression. At all. For what now...Eight years?" - Lutearina Okay........this statement is just ridiculous (no offense). Do you know WHY the two had no romantic progression? 1) He went off to become a SOLDIER. 2) He was stuck in a tube for quite a while. 3) Aeris was the one who pressed for a relationship leaving Tifa in the background. 4) Cloud was in an emotional wreck to begin with. The only time where the two ACTUALLY got a chance to really spend time with each other was after the lifestream event where Cloud finally starts to develop his mind. (Gosh, I repeated myself for like a thousand times already....) See, debating is fun. heart Yeah doesn't it get irritating when people don't listen the first time. I think I repeated myself about 100 time by now just because they refuse to see the facts.
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:40 pm
Lutearina
Yes, there are reasons for Cloud and Tifa not having romantic progression, but they haven't had romantic progression nonetheless.
You obviously didn't read what Twindream wrote about "after Lifestream". But since Cloud and Tifa had no romantic progression, I guess everything that happened after the life stream is nothing but bullshit. Having an intimate conversation under the highwind, sleeping with each other till morning, having a man living happily with a women for two years (With and without Barret), Oh and all the official evidence from SE, means nothing but crap. Yeah, you were right, Cloud and Tifa have no romantic progression. stare Lutearina Ah, also, I was wondering, how would you explain away Calling? What do you think the point of it is? I'm actually just interested in people's opinions of it, because I adored it. xD The calling was an excuse to merge real film with CG. Cloud is seen on his bike, then Aeris is seen for a total of 5 seconds, watches him go by, and then the seen changes to the flowers and the picture on his desk. That's about it. No secret meetings or romps through the flowerfields. It's simply exactly what it shows and nothing more.
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:22 pm
Lutearina Interesting! 8D I rather like the way you approach things, Twindream. 3nodding (By the way; you don't have to call me Lutearina, just Lute or Arina or Rina or something else is fine. sweatdrop Lutearina just sounds very formal. xD)
Now, let's see...What I meant when I said that Cloud didn't let go of Aerith, I didn't mean the guilt; I meant her memory. I think it's quite obvious Cloud received relievance from his guilt by the end of AC, for sure! whee
Yes, there are reasons for Cloud and Tifa not having romantic progression, but they haven't had romantic progression nonetheless.
Ah, also, I was wondering, how would you explain away Calling? What do you think the point of it is? I'm actually just interested in people's opinions of it, because I adored it. xD Oh....sorry. sweatdrop Well, that does save me the trouble of double checking if I spelled your name wrong or not. xd For me....when I first watched Calling, I thought it might of been symbolic or something...but that something is speculative....people can interpret it many ways. For me, when I first watched Calling, it sort of struck me as Aeris continuing to watch Cloud....but how the way Aeris looked at Cloud and Cloud not regarding her shows distance....as if Aeris is watching from far away. Not to say that I'm opposing your views or anything. I just got that as a first impression. smile I suppose the vid has some relevance to it.....symbolically, but it's not exactly strong evidence to use for Cleris in my opinion.
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:17 pm
Interesting! (I use that word too often. D: )
To me, I think Calling was symbolic in some ways, too...Although I'm horrible at describing things and debating things, so I normally stay out of things like that. sweatdrop
I'll have to wait for a good debater to come along and clear up things, because I, in all honesty, can't debate for my life. <33
Sorry! sweatdrop I would if I could, but I'm too lazy to give evidence and stuff. xD I'm also too soft for debates; I get queasy, embarrassed, flustered, and feel like I'm offending people and making no sense. xDD
(Random observation: Your avatar is cute, RxH! D: So is yours, Twindream....It looks really exotic. D: And RxH, yours is too adorable! The pink hair and duckies...<33)
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:32 pm
I think I agree with you, Rina, on what you said about everyone being biased. There is no way around it, truly. And like you said, being biased isn't always a bad thing. My Honors English teacher had us do this speech, and told us to be as biased as we wanted, because that was a good thing for very debateable subjects and allowed other opinions from different views and experiences to be inserted. Mine was about how therapists and councillors are full of crap, and usually don't help anything but merely make things worse. VERY biased indeed, since it's based on my personal experience. I think different people see things in very different ways, and I think that Cloti AND Cleris have different kinds of love, different kinds of proof, and the girls have two very different types of realationships with Cloud. I am a Cloti fan, so of course I think there is more proof for their side. But a Cleris fan would DEFINITELY think differently. It's always going to be that way, too. I'm sure that Cleris fans can nitpick things that the creator has said as well, and I'm sure the Cloti can counter it. On the flip side, the Cleris could counter Cloti nitpicked things as well, because each side will always debate simply--- because we are all biased and see things different.
-end-
biggrin
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:37 pm
Yup...that's why we'll never reach a conclusion, haha, sounds pointless, but I don't think it is.
(Oh, thanks for the compliment Lute! blaugh It took me a long time to get that stuff....I'm always poor.)
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:56 pm
The simplest conclusion is the actual one from all the stories. Cloud doesnt end up with anyone.
Im a CloTi supporter, but it really wouldnt be the same at all if Cloud actually ended up with someone. This kind of debate is a part of what keeps people interested in the game and its Universe 10 years after its initial release.
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:04 pm
EXACTLY. Single Cloud FTW. My friend CG supports single Cloud, and I think she's got the most evidence and canonity of us all! 8D
Lunar: Wow, that was a great paragraph! I'm glad that you agree, and the examples and way you wrote it was great. xD
Twindream: (You're welcome! >w< It really does look lovely. xD Haha, it's good to talk about things other than the LTD, you know? If we didn't, we wouldn't make friends with the "opposition", and that would be sad, because just because someone prefers one pairing over another doesn't mean they're not a wonderful person, which I think you, Lunar, all the CloTis here are. 8D)
Hooray for single Cloud, the only supremely reigning canon Cloud pairing there will be, because there's no way Nomura is going to settle the LTD....I mean, he'd lose half a fanbase. xD And Squeenix certainly doesn't want to lose fans, because then they'd lose money. xDD
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