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 Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:18 am
nosh276 "If Jesus was Jewish, why would he kill himself for Christians, which at that time obviously hated each other at that time? With Christianity plagurizing the from the Jews and all, I'm sure they weren't to happy for each other. " Are you ******** serious? Christians didn't exist, you stupid t**t! I'm not trying to be mean, but Paul, John, etc were all Jews until after Jesus' supposed resurrection. Also, it states, in the bible, that he died for all the world, not just a select few. Why does anyone follow anything? Nothing is perfect. Math is only theoretical. Theoretically it's perfect. Physics, theoretically, is perfect. In reality, however, it cannot be proven. If one follows your logic, one cannot use math at all, nor walk or even breathe. You can't prove anything for absolute truth. Everything is based off of assumptions. It's like symbolic logic. There are the big assumptions that we have, which everything is based off of, and provision assumptions, which are used for specific situations. Truth value is irrelevant. Which country are you a citizen of, by the way? Why do you follow the leader? If you're not an active revolutionary, then you're following by omission. If no human is perfect, then you should be leading, according to your professed philosophy, your own revolution against the world, which you fight alone, since you're not perfect either, no one should follow you. Your arguments have too many holes. Go study. I know that Christians didn't exist. Cussing does not help me take you seriously. If your going to debate like that, you mine as well stop, I'm losing respect for you. Still why would Jesus die for everyone? Instead of just those who follow him.
You completely missed the whole point. The point was how is an infalible god falible? It has nothing to do with leadership of humans. But since you bring it up. We know humans are imperfect, we can feel that humans exist. Maybe it would have been better to ask "Why follow an imperfect god that there is no proof of existing that is talked up to make seem like he is better?" You may not be able to prove anything for absolute truth, but you can prove it to the point that it is close to absolute truth. That it makes sense, that it doesn't seem to contridict itself. I have never seen math contridict itself.
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:05 pm
marshjazz I know that Christians didn't exist. Cussing does not help me take you seriously. If your going to debate like that, you mine as well stop, I'm losing respect for you. Still why would Jesus die for everyone? Instead of just those who follow him.
You completely missed the whole point. The point was how is an infalible god falible? It has nothing to do with leadership of humans. But since you bring it up. We know humans are imperfect, we can feel that humans exist. Maybe it would have been better to ask "Why follow an imperfect god that there is no proof of existing that is talked up to make seem like he is better?" You may not be able to prove anything for absolute truth, but you can prove it to the point that it is close to absolute truth. That it makes sense, that it doesn't seem to contridict itself. I have never seen math contridict itself. If you seriously think that "cussing" makes an argument less valid, you're much less mature than I had even imagined. Why would Jesus die for everyone? Why the hell should I know? I was just stating that that is what it says. If I really wanted to get into it though, I would inform you of the non-existence of good and evil. That, however, is a metaethics topic and not a theological one. What gives you the idea that god is not perfect? An absolute god, which is what we're discussing--since we're talking about Christianity--, is, by nature, perfect in every respect. You only assume math works. There's no way to prove that 1 + 1 = 2 in every scenario. (heh Especially not if you ask the absitnence only sex education people and their billboards that say 1 + 1 =3.) You need to go read Gödel's Incompleteness Theorum. You really don't have any clue what you're talking about.
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:56 pm
Go back and read the post you first replied too. Then you'll figure out why god isn't perfect, or atleast to me.
I never said math was absolute truth. (I'll have to give you serious props if you can actually pull a direct quote from where you got that idea) I said that it doesn't seem to contridict itself. Unlike christianity. To me christianity seems to contridict itself.
You really need to stop attacking me. You know what about me? Not my age, full name, my family or anything about me. So stop making an a** out of you and me by assuming things, when you know zip about me. And yes I cussed, to use that famous a** + U + ME = Assume. I'm getting sick of it, it's tiring. If you can't actually debate something with me, without saying some form of "your stupid" you need more experience debating, because you don't prove someone wrong by saying they don't know what they are talking about.
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:02 pm
No, I won the debate because I presented an arguement.
You did not. You merely stated specualtion with no back-up.
About math: You never directly stated that it was an absolute truth. However, you did state that it is without [supposedly] contradiction. If there aren't any contradictions, then, logically, it is perpetually valid. Truth value is negligible. It doesn't matter if it's true or false. If it works out, it's valid. If something is valid, then, according to the system, it's true--regardless of any real truth value. If it is always valid and, therefore, always true, it is an absolute truth.
I don't have to know your name, family, or age to discern that you really have had no background in Theology or Philosophy. That much can be derived from your lack of evidence.
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:24 pm
How are you not reading a single thing I say? SEEMS to not have contridictions. All math I have experienced hasn't had a contridiction. So far, none of the math discovered doesn't have a contridiction. Stop twisting around what I say.
You don't know my background. You don't know how many Theology or Philosophy classes that I've taken, so don't pretend you do. You know nothing about me.
"That much can be derived from your lack of evidence."
And you have what evidence to prove that Jesus ever died for anyone? While were on the subject, I need evidence of what? confused
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:29 pm
Their is a God, and to believe the world was created by a ´big bang´is just plain insane. and to believe that man was by évalution´is insane as well. i mean come on! if u believe in that then please tell me why we stopped, what is the missiong link you´ll talk about. well if u believe u come from a money then go ahead, i for one come from God!!!
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:49 pm
darky90 There is a God, and to believe the world was created by a ´big bang´is just plain insane. And to believe that man was by evolution is insane as well. I mean come on! If you believe in that then please tell me why we stopped, what is the missing link you all talk about. Well if you believe you come from a monkey then go ahead, I for one come from God!!!
Now where should I begin.
First, if you don't know basic non-n00bish speak, please reserve from commenting on an actual debate.
Next of all, we haven't stoped evolving. You just can't see it because it takes millions of billions of years. What missing link are you even talking about? And if you want something you can see on the small scale, look at racoons or any other animal that now scroungas through dumpsters to find food. You think they always did that? No they are adapting to their environment. This is a behavioral adaption, not a physical one though. Usually adaptations come as a result of environmental changes, in this case houses were build where there once was a forest, so they resort to a different way of surviving. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that evolution happened, just nothing concrete, where as God doesn't even have circumstancial evidence.
Next of all, even christianity only says that man was created in the image of god. (Mysteriously close to the old greek/roman myth about prometheus) Not from god. Learn you own religion (some science while you're at it) before you come in here again.
Now which do you think a non-objective rational person would say is more insane? To believe in an invisible man indirectly controling everything, creating a world in seven days, and ending the world? Or that slowely over millions of billions of years, we adapted to soot our environment and grew into what we now call Homo Sapiens? But that is all a matter of opinion.
Also, thank you for not reading my first post and actually contributing to a conversation. This would have been more appropiate to put in the "Do you believe in god?" topic.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:39 pm
marshjazz
Now which do you think a non-objective rational person would say is more insane? To believe in an invisible man indirectly controlling everything, creating a world in seven days, and ending the world? Or that slowly over millions of billions of years, we adapted to soot our environment and grew into what we now call Homo Sapiens? But that is all a matter of opinion.
Also, thank you for not reading my first post and actually contributing to a conversation. This would have been more appropriate to put in the "Do you believe in god?" topic. I laugh, I love, I hope, I try, I hurt, I need, I fear, I cry. Adding onto that, what seems more believable: an omnipotent father-figure creating mankind out of dust (and women out of a man's ribcage) or people evolving from a species that shares an abundant amount of similarities to us?
If there is a God, and He is indeed omnipotent, and He's always watching us, why wasn't He watching Adam and Eve when they ate the Apple of Eden? And when he found out about them eating the apple, how come he was surprised and angry if all history was already planned out by Him?
Don't get me started on Bible plot holes, I could go on a field day. And I know you do the same things, too. So we're really not that different, me and you.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:25 pm
Ha, I just noticed I spelled "suit" as "soot" rofl
Nice points to bring up. Some of those I hadn't even though of. She just had to come in here and post something completely wrong and stupid didn't she. That just ruined the reputation of my thread. stare I mean how can you shot down evolution when you don't even have any clue about it?
Close minded Christians: A threat to modern civilization. I swear, if everyone was like her, we'd never make scientific break throughs. We'd still believe that Earth was the center or the universe. Back to the middle ages we go. lol
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:31 am
I am an atheist. the reason why I'm atheist can be summed up with one famous point by Dawkins: Imagine there was a teacup orbiting the sun. It's far to small to detect, but a whole society grew up beleiving that teacup was there. Any one who didn't beleive in that teacup would probubly be shuned and and may even be called crazy. wouldn't that person be atheist to that teacup? yes, there is no way to prove that that teacup isn't there, but what reason is there to think it is? just plain faith? then why don't we have faith that there is a flying spagetti monster in your shed that turns invisible as soon as you open the door? Can you prove that it isn't ther? then why not have faith in it?
Every one is an atheist to gods such as Zues or Thor, but I just take it one god further. I believe that religion was origanaly created to explain things humanity did not yet understand, and it just evolved as new religions were created. thats the differance between atheists and theists: theists think they know all the answers; atheists don't. when a theist cannot find a real answer they say "god did it", but when an atheist cannot find an answer they say "I don't know. there are answers we still have left to find, but if we keep our minds open and use every possible resource, we might be able to find it!" I believe that it is that insucurity of not having all the answers that keeps people faithful to the myths that their ancestors used to explain the world.
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:58 pm
I love the Dawkins quote. I have heard AS reference it before. The difference between atheists and theists that you gave is very insightful. I hadn't though of it like that before.
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:47 am
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:13 pm
marshjazz darky90 There is a God, and to believe the world was created by a ´big bang´is just plain insane. And to believe that man was by evolution is insane as well. I mean come on! If you believe in that then please tell me why we stopped, what is the missing link you all talk about. Well if you believe you come from a monkey then go ahead, I for one come from God!!! Thank-you. I sincerely got confused and stuck at "money". But I guess she meant monkey. Who'd of thought. marshjazz Next of all, we haven't stoped evolving. We actually have begun to de-evolve since the Neandertal. Despite them seemingly not being able to legibly verbalize as we use words, they had a greater brain capacity that has since gone down in size. Which may take as much faith to believe (that we're de-evolving) as religion; humans are challenged to have faith in things every day. Sometimes not to the extent of devoting your entire life to it, but everyone gets to pick and choose what to believe and have faith in. Wether the choices are moral at all can also be disassociated; everyone interprets religion to their own liking to make it as convenient as possible.
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:41 pm
Well, to be honest, religion was created to give hope of an afterlife... I was raised in a certain religion and I'm slowly becoming to realize that that certain faith is very hypocritical. There are some very wise people out there but I don't see a certain god/goddess condeming a person just because they don't fit into a certain group of that particular religion.
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:02 pm
non lo so marshjazz darky90 There is a God, and to believe the world was created by a ´big bang´is just plain insane. And to believe that man was by evolution is insane as well. I mean come on! If you believe in that then please tell me why we stopped, what is the missing link you all talk about. Well if you believe you come from a monkey then go ahead, I for one come from God!!! Thank-you. I sincerely got confused and stuck at "money". But I guess she meant monkey. Who'd of thought. marshjazz Next of all, we haven't stoped evolving. We actually have begun to de-evolve since the Neandertal. Despite them seemingly not being able to legibly verbalize as we use words, they had a greater brain capacity that has since gone down in size. Which may take as much faith to believe (that we're de-evolving) as religion; humans are challenged to have faith in things every day. Sometimes not to the extent of devoting your entire life to it, but everyone gets to pick and choose what to believe and have faith in. Wether the choices are moral at all can also be disassociated; everyone interprets religion to their own liking to make it as convenient as possible. Not a problem. Some of the parts I was pretty confused about as well. Evolving/de-evolving...either way we're mutating, but thanks for correcting me. Also, the reason why they had a bigger brain capasity but couldn't speak is because it isn't so much the size but how you use what you have. Our brain worked in a way more superior to theirs.
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