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zukpager305
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:35 pm


rachaella22
Debate is here

xP Blaah. I'm just getting really tired of it. I feel almost like I'm repeating myself, and some of the rude things she says really grates on my nerves. I know she doesn't care about being rude, though. She basically said it's part of her personality. >.<



oh man, that debate is way too long for me to read right now.


i still am a firm believer that the writers are big fans of plot twists. Nothing is as it seems, and right now it seems as if katara hates zuko and katara and aang will get together. MEANWHILE, we still have 10 or so epies left, plenty of time for a plot twist. I believe that there will be a love triangle develop between aang, katara, and zuko.

so from what i did read of her argument, yeah, i may give her that about the mother/son relationship not really being there and katara hiding a crush on aang. however, the love triangle will develop. and katara will choose zuko because it is a plot twist. and in any case, aang needs to let go of katara to master the avatar state, what better way then to see her happy with someone else??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:17 am


anitasakura
I think its funny how she calls GreenifyME bias when GrennifyME was looking through the possiblities and stating what she thinks will happen. Spootay seems like she doesn't even try to look from a different point of view. I know people who may not like a certain shipping but will at least see another point of view even though they don't think it will happen.
Yeah. GreenifyMe took facts of the character's personalities and explained why it would or wouldn't work in the relationships, never mind the amount moments they've had together. I mean, you can spend your entire life with someone, and never fall in love. Then you can meet someone and know them for, like, a week, and start developing feelings for them. It doesn't make sense, but that's how it works.

>.> God. Why didn't say that in my debate? Dx

rachaella22
Crew


rachaella22
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:28 am


User Image

I'm sorry. I just couldn't resist. xD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:34 am


rachaella22
User Image

I'm sorry. I just couldn't resist. xD



hehe thats cute.

zukpager305
Crew


zukpager305
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:09 pm


User Image



zuko is the only flamer i like.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:49 pm


That's a cool banner. Yep, Zuzu's the only flamer we love.

Random-Gal930


zukpager305
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:17 pm


Random-Gal930
That's a cool banner. Yep, Zuzu's the only flamer we love.


thankies.

i don't really like the phrase at the bottom, but couldn't think of anything else. if someone thinks of anything better, let me know and i'll change it.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:35 am


Random-Gal930
Teh_Sheba
rachaella22
^.^ Thanks! I'm always worried that I repeat myself or don't make sense. xP This should give me good practice with that sort of thing, though.

RockyRoad: Don't worry. It was short, sor my suffering wasn't prolonged.

The shipping wars on Gaia will be truely frightening if she does join. Dx *pushes her back to DA*

Still, that kind of thing deserves a hug.
*huggles*
heart

Nuu, DA is where I hang out! *continues to shove her to random place away from Zutarians*

On another note, some other people jumped into my discussion with Spooty...One of them said we disrespect Mike and Bryan themselves by liking Zutara and that we bastardize the show.
*face/palm*

Of all the rude things to say! Where's this discussion taking place? I'm gonna give those people a piece of my mind (w/o bashing, of course). Actually, if we Zutarians are "disrespecting" Mike and Bryan because of what we ship, then whta about the others? Sure, Kataang might happen (please no), but since nothing's happened as of yet, Kataangers are "disrespecting" Mike and Bryan for thinking they know what the outcome of the show is. They should think about what they say first, yes?

Yeah, totally. I wrote back, saying that I wonder who's REALLY showing disrespect to Mike and Bryan, with this "get your heads out of your asses" type flaming going around in the fandom. This person actually did say that about us, word for word, at one point in their post...And I was already fuming about the disrespecting M and B thing.

And I really need to get back into the debate and keep supporting you, Rachaella...I just haven't had much alone time to glare down the computer and rave about what I'm going to say... and I was gone most of the day.

What' really getting me at this point, is her firm belief that Zuko would be a total arse and SOO out of character if he FELL in love at this point, considering Mai. Number one, we aren't saying it'll happen right away, it'll develop over the next episodes. Two, He's not looking for a girlfriend as some seem to think we are theorizing. Third... You CAN'T help with WHO or WHEN or HOW FAST you fall in love, it just happens. Like Rachaella said, it doesn't make sense. It just happens. Love is an illogical emotion. So sorry if we sound illogical for suggesting it.
rolleyes

And her ragging on Green? I found that this morning(or was it last night?) and I found it cheap and truthfully, a bit childish and hypocritical. Spootay calling Green biased? Well, isn't that calling the kettle black. And Green has said, these are theories, her opinion, her predictions, what SHE thinks is going to happen. Spootay, on the other hand, complains about Zutarians and our supposed idiocy and ignorance.
At least Green sticks to the story and plot points and doesn't out right attack other fans! I mean, she brought up what was being said by other shippers, but that was to point out what her opinion of the shows direction was going to be related to it. Spootay just bashes. And calls Green a brain-washer.

And you know what, She says we're illogical, but Green's essay's make nothing but SENSE to me.

For one thing, as I said to another Zutarian yesterday, Aang EXPLICITLY saying in DoBS that his seventh Chakra was locked, can ONLY mean that it will come in of great importance later on. Actually, not great; HUGE. Which is where Green's theory comes in, that Zutara will be essential to finally showing Aang that he has to let go of her, and that she won't be completely shattered if he does. If she doesn't love him like he loves her, then it'll be easier to let her go. That he, above all, wants her happiness, even if it's with another guy, Zuko. He needs the Avatar State, and it's been blatantly obvious since The Guru, that he needs to let her go.
I figured it out as I was talking to this other Zutarian, that the fact that Aang came out, and said it STRAIGHT UP, with NO sugar coating or subtlty, that's a RED FREAKIN' FLAG to me that he is going to have to face it sooner or later. Probably later, in the last episodes, so it'll be all spiffy and dramatic.

And her disclaimers? YEAH. Right. I get the feeling that those were only added after the initial posting of her work, and out of the desire to cover herself from TOO many 'needless' complaints. She probably got tired of the (justified) Zutarians giving negative response or something like that. What she considers 'Wank'. Her disclaimers are, pardon my french, crap, because her artwork and what she says and does when she turns around from what she posts, say otherwise.

You know what, this whole experience with Spootay has shown me that once you talk, or rather debate and argue with her, Spootay really isn't the most threatening thing out there when it comes to our ship. She's still as childish, prejudiced, stubborn as any other basher on Kataang's side. She's just more up-front, blatant, and hurtful about it. And she refuses to see our side of the story, or that there are Zutarians out there who are intelegent. If anything, she's the most hateful. But beyond that, she really hasn't given me any information from the show that would convince me that Kataang was meant to happen from the beginning. It's the same old thing that we've heard from Kataangers from the start...Just in a more hateful and explicit way. That, and she doesn't back down.
The worst thing that she does is, intentionally or not, show OTHER Kataangers, even ones you wouldn't normally see as bashers, that it's ok to submit hate-art and start rioting in the DA ranks. But as far as from actual arguments of one side trying to convince the other go? She's all talk, but same old story.

Teh_Sheba


Random-Gal930

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:31 am


rachaella22
Debate is here

xP Blaah. I'm just getting really tired of it. I feel almost like I'm repeating myself, and some of the rude things she says really grates on my nerves. I know she doesn't care about being rude, though. She basically said it's part of her personality. >.<

I finally found time to back you up on this. This is a response to a post by spootyatm, though it's mainly directed to this paragraph:

spootyatm
I did go into this with a biased mind, and I tore apart Kataang arguments also. I put down everything Zutara because all the evidence FOR Zutara was not there, and therefore I disputed it, and every Kataang evidence could be confirmed. There were some I disputed also, but for the most part, Kataang remained in tact, if not MORE prominent that I originally thought in the first season. The first season isn't particularly shippy at all at least so I thought. I watched the show with an open mind, took in all the evidence, all the foreshadowing, and took everything into consideration. EVERYTHING.


My response can be found over here. It's not as long as the other paragraphs you and Teh_Sheba made, but I think I did pretty good for my first real arguement.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:51 am


Teh_Sheba
Yeah, totally. I wrote back, saying that I wonder who's REALLY showing disrespect to Mike and Bryan, with this "get your heads out of your asses" type flaming going around in the fandom. This person actually did say that about us, word for word, at one point in their post...And I was already fuming about the disrespecting M and B thing.

And I really need to get back into the debate and keep supporting you, Rachaella...I just haven't had much alone time to glare down the computer and rave about what I'm going to say... and I was gone most of the day.

What' really getting me at this point, is her firm belief that Zuko would be a total arse and SOO out of character if he FELL in love at this point, considering Mai. Number one, we aren't saying it'll happen right away, it'll develop over the next episodes. Two, He's not looking for a girlfriend as some seem to think we are theorizing. Third... You CAN'T help with WHO or WHEN or HOW FAST you fall in love, it just happens. Like Rachaella said, it doesn't make sense. It just happens. Love is an illogical emotion. So sorry if we sound illogical for suggesting it.
rolleyes

And her ragging on Green? I found that this morning(or was it last night?) and I found it cheap and truthfully, a bit childish and hypocritical. Spootay calling Green biased? Well, isn't that calling the kettle black. And Green has said, these are theories, her opinion, her predictions, what SHE thinks is going to happen. Spootay, on the other hand, complains about Zutarians and our supposed idiocy and ignorance.
At least Green sticks to the story and plot points and doesn't out right attack other fans! I mean, she brought up what was being said by other shippers, but that was to point out what her opinion of the shows direction was going to be related to it. Spootay just bashes. And calls Green a brain-washer.

And you know what, She says we're illogical, but Green's essay's make nothing but SENSE to me.

For one thing, as I said to another Zutarian yesterday, Aang EXPLICITLY saying in DoBS that his seventh Chakra was locked, can ONLY mean that it will come in of great importance later on. Actually, not great; HUGE. Which is where Green's theory comes in, that Zutara will be essential to finally showing Aang that he has to let go of her, and that she won't be completely shattered if he does. If she doesn't love him like he loves her, then it'll be easier to let her go. That he, above all, wants her happiness, even if it's with another guy, Zuko. He needs the Avatar State, and it's been blatantly obvious since The Guru, that he needs to let her go.
I figured it out as I was talking to this other Zutarian, that the fact that Aang came out, and said it STRAIGHT UP, with NO sugar coating or subtlty, that's a RED FREAKIN' FLAG to me that he is going to have to face it sooner or later. Probably later, in the last episodes, so it'll be all spiffy and dramatic.

And her disclaimers? YEAH. Right. I get the feeling that those were only added after the initial posting of her work, and out of the desire to cover herself from TOO many 'needless' complaints. She probably got tired of the (justified) Zutarians giving negative response or something like that. What she considers 'Wank'. Her disclaimers are, pardon my french, crap, because her artwork and what she says and does when she turns around from what she posts, say otherwise.

You know what, this whole experience with Spootay has shown me that once you talk, or rather debate and argue with her, Spootay really isn't the most threatening thing out there when it comes to our ship. She's still as childish, prejudiced, stubborn as any other basher on Kataang's side. She's just more up-front, blatant, and hurtful about it. And she refuses to see our side of the story, or that there are Zutarians out there who are intelegent. If anything, she's the most hateful. But beyond that, she really hasn't given me any information from the show that would convince me that Kataang was meant to happen from the beginning. It's the same old thing that we've heard from Kataangers from the start...Just in a more hateful and explicit way. That, and she doesn't back down.
The worst thing that she does is, intentionally or not, show OTHER Kataangers, even ones you wouldn't normally see as bashers, that it's ok to submit hate-art and start rioting in the DA ranks. But as far as from actual arguments of one side trying to convince the other go? She's all talk, but same old story.
Amen to that. 3nodding

And, even if Green is a bit biased, at least she says that everything is just her opinion. Spootay says things in her essay, claiming that they're 'facts'. Dx Seriously. No one knows what's intended as shipping evidence except Mike and Bryan. We can all guess, we can all make predictions, but in the end, Mike and Bryan are the only ones who really know the truth.

Uggh. I just hope the new episode will prove at least one of my points so that she'll start considering them. >.<

rachaella22
Crew


rachaella22
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:56 am


Random-Gal930
rachaella22
Debate is here

xP Blaah. I'm just getting really tired of it. I feel almost like I'm repeating myself, and some of the rude things she says really grates on my nerves. I know she doesn't care about being rude, though. She basically said it's part of her personality. >.<

I finally found time to back you up on this. This is a response to a post by spootyatm, though it's mainly directed to this paragraph:

spootyatm
I did go into this with a biased mind, and I tore apart Kataang arguments also. I put down everything Zutara because all the evidence FOR Zutara was not there, and therefore I disputed it, and every Kataang evidence could be confirmed. There were some I disputed also, but for the most part, Kataang remained in tact, if not MORE prominent that I originally thought in the first season. The first season isn't particularly shippy at all at least so I thought. I watched the show with an open mind, took in all the evidence, all the foreshadowing, and took everything into consideration. EVERYTHING.


My response can be found over here. It's not as long as the other paragraphs you and Teh_Sheba made, but I think I did pretty good for my first real arguement.
You did very good. ^.^ You explained things rationably and reasonably, and pointed out some major flaws in her arguement.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:00 am


I think this is a good start to the year, because I wasn't nearly as annoyed while countering Spootay's arguements as I was before. Maybe it's because they seem to be getting weaker, or I have more support. I dunno. I just feel really good about the debate today. =D

And I think I pretty much summarized my feelings completely with this:


Quote:
As I've been saying through this entire thing, nothing is set in stone. The past does not determine the future. Yes, there needs to be a base of events to build new events and relationships on, but it the base doesn't have to point to what the result will be. Kataang has a lot of moments and interaction, and it's very obvious how Aang feels. Zutara doesn't have a lot of moments and interations, and it's very obvious how Katara feels (Zuko's hatred doesn't to be intact anymore). But there's still a foundation for both, and both can grow and change and end completely differently from how we expect.


Waah~! I love it when I get things worded the way I want. ^.^ You guys are doing awesome with your debates, too.

rachaella22
Crew


rachaella22
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:02 am


zukpager305
User Image



zuko is the only flamer i like.
xD Hehe. So true.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:48 pm


Nice job Random-Gal930 I like how you pointed out that there are rational zutarans and we don't support the ship because we only have a thing for Zuko. My friend and I support zutara but Zuko isn't even our favorite character.

anitasakura
Vice Captain


Random-Gal930

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:29 pm


Aww, thanks, you guys! I think I did pretty well. I might try doing this again next weekend, but meybe for the Season 2 essay, since I've watched more of that season that the first.
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Opposites Attract: A Zutara Fan Guild

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