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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:19 am
xXZetsubou-KaesuXx @ Cobra Then it should be in the rules. To my interprettation of the rules, Shinobi types Skills can not stack, which means that bonuses and penalties can not stack. Which I will agree is wierd, but that is how the rules are written, so I try not to question them. In this case, the Mods have overwritten the rule, and I can tell you that I had the same question when I first started, so i had discussed it with Lance and gregar and they said that Positive and negatives DO STACK.
...the no stacking rule was written the way it was to avoid the OP stacking that comes with tactical/elemental control ... or tactical/summoning. It was written to AVOID people stacking modifiers to -8 ... but was not created to detriment people by saying negatives and positives don't stack.
It's confusing I know, but negative and Positive modifiers DO STACK together.
Positives don't stack with positives. (excepting special cases, such as teacher... or training ground rules)
Negatives don't stack with negatives. (Excepting special cases, such as with the Chuunin exams, where Genin were allowed to learn their own Genin jutsu, but we required an extra posts to learn from a scroll)xXZetsubou-KaesuXx But I also, Even though I have no right to question the Vc and c's decision, Still have a problem with the fact that Hinote obtained his rank by doing exactly what I am, and now whenever I post here, he tells me I am wrong, and the proccess just repeats indefinately. It is geting quite old, And even though I enjoy it, bedause it brings back fond memories of a lost friend, I still get angry, and begin attacking other people, Like Orchi~sama. You have EVERY RIGHT to question a decision, but you' don't have the right to do it in public. In this case, when he posted that you were wrong... you were, so he was right to do so.
As to your getting angry, that's something that you alone have to deal with, that's not our issue.
Your welcome to help out, but if you are INCORRECT in your advice, you could potentially be misleading people, which is why you need to listen to Hinote. Again, if you think his ruling is incorrect, take it to a Global Mod / VC.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:20 am
And just as a thought, does it actually say that penalties can't stack? Or are we just using this as a fulcrum from arguments sake. It doesn't say it can or can't, so maybe we should just wait for lance slash blue to help.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:20 am
kayavient_thundergod The Code of Hammurabi can someone please explain this to me now I'm confused! Google it.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:23 am
duckmasta Since shinobi skills Learning bonuses never stack, would someone with the shinobi types: Offensive and Tactical Ninja, have a -4, -3, or +1 posts to learning jutsu? This is the question that started all of this. You answered by saying they would have a -4 learning bonus. Which was not the correct answer to the question asked. He wanted to know, according to his shinobi types, what it would take for him to learn jutsu. I came in and answered the question, by saying he needed to take the penalty from Offensive, and cut it out of his bonus from Tactical. The correct answer. After that you decided to defend your answer, which lead to this entire debate. As for how I got my status as a mod, it is not nearly so simple as you seem to think. #1. I followed all of the rules to the best of my knowledge, and encouraged others to do so as well, pointing out potential problems as they came up. #2. I respected the mods to the best of my ability, only questioning them if there was a clearly set rule that they were breaking. I did not ever go on the offensive against a moderator. #3. I did answer questions here, but I only answered the ones that I was certain I knew the answers to. I would never try to answer something that I wasn't at least 95% sure I was correct on. And lastly, people saw what I did. I helped out members and crew alike in various things, and the member apparently liked it, because they started asking that I get the promotion. I didn't actually know half the people that came out and said I should be crew. And in the end, Lance agreed with them, and gave me the post. If you are trying to copy the process that got me into my current spot. Fighting the mods at every turn is not the proper way to do it.
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:30 am
Cobra_X It DID NOT however work the other way around, saying that if a Slave did something wrong, the master would also have to suffer the same punishment as the slave. ALSO, it was easily assumed that within the law, only certain people were allowed to administer the punishments and those who administered it as PART OF ENFORCING THE LAW, would not have to suffer a punishment in giving them out. Actually I have read the code, thuroughly, and it does state that any punishment the Slave is meant to endure the same shall be dealt to the master. this is in place so the master will kep a tighter leash on their slave, this gives way for acceptable punishment that is outside of the code's specification. Like if the slave mis behaves, the Master can starve it for a time, and then allow it to eat, after it is obidient. But! This is neither here nor there, as it has nothing to do with my questions at hand. Cobra_X In this case, the Mods have overwritten the rule, and I can tell you that I had the same question when I first started, so i had discussed it with Lance and gregar and they said that Positive and negatives DO STACK. Then they should write it in the rules so things like this do not happen. this is exactly what lead to the clog earlier. And if it had been written in, then I would have had a much different statement and this arguement would have never ensued. Cobra_X You have EVERY RIGHT to question a decision, but you' don't have the right to do it in public. Here is where I disagree with you, I know it might not be the same everywhere in the world, but where I am from, I have the fredom of speech. and I'm not trying to say I am better than anyone, But I have the right to say things in public.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:37 am
xXZetsubou-KaesuXx Cobra_X You have EVERY RIGHT to question a decision, but you' don't have the right to do it in public. Here is where I disagree with you, I know it might not be the same everywhere in the world, but where I am from, I have the fredom of speech. and I'm not trying to say I am better than anyone, But I have the right to say things in public. This is where you are 100% wrong. You may have freedom of speech out there in the real world, and that is all well and good. But this is the internet. On the internet, you have the freedom of speech only so long as you follow the rules put forth. And starting an argument with the mods is against those rules, thus stripping you of your freedom of speech. Do you think you could stand up in the middle of a court case and start arguing with the judge without being thrown out of the room? Freedom of speech only goes just so far, and it ends the second you break a set rule.
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:37 am
xXZetsubou-KaesuXx Cobra_X It DID NOT however work the other way around, saying that if a Slave did something wrong, the master would also have to suffer the same punishment as the slave. ALSO, it was easily assumed that within the law, only certain people were allowed to administer the punishments and those who administered it as PART OF ENFORCING THE LAW, would not have to suffer a punishment in giving them out. Yeah I just read halfway through the code, and what you are saying isn't actually the truth... it is met with equal punishment in the case of UNFAIR punishment.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:41 am
kayavient_thundergod You better leave Gre- I mean Hinote alone. But anyway, so if I were outside the village in the wilderness training, I'd only have a -2 bonus, correct? Or another example, If my BL says + four to learn jutsu, and I took tactical, I would learn it with regular restrictions right> One more thing since your online now... If you take elemental control, Wind Sage BL, and your element is wind, would the bonuses to the rank of your jutsu stack? The wind sage clan does not increase the power of wind jutsus it just allows them to be used without hand-seals up to your own rank
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:42 am
Okay fine... enough with Hammurabi's Code. Apparently I'm wrong there.
...however, we do not operate under Hamurrabi's code, so any arguments pertaining to it have no bearing on the discussion at hand.
Eye for an Eye justice doesn't work anyway.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:46 am
Hinote Tosatsu If you are trying to copy the process that got me into my current spot. Fighting the mods at every turn is not the proper way to do it. That right there pisses me off to no end.... You think that I want to be a mod here? Ha! I never want to be a mod in any guild I'm in. The only reason I would ever accept a job, is if the other mods are friendly, and do not balantly say that someone is wrong, Especially if there is not a Rule set into stone about the matter. Also you are accusing me of trying to mimic you? Have you yet to notice how different we truely are? We are from completely different places, completely different worlds, The process might be similar, and to some people might look identical, but the outcome will always be different. I do not try to fight the mods, I answer a question, one of you says something that I either do not understand, and Either this happens, or you clarify what it is you said, or other mods come into the picture, and create even more chaos, adding their interpretations to the fire, further confusing me, because some of their words might contradict what the original mod previously said. I merely try to sort out what exactly the original mod, or even one of the other mods is trying to say so that I can try to use it as a basis to interpret what the original mod is saying. sorry if you haven't noticed, but after each of this, have you not noticed I normally focus on one person, this case being Cobra, because his was the best answer I had obtained, and the easiest to Pull information from? honestly, after these frequent happenings, I thought that someone would have noticed the pattern by now. how there are atleast two mods always trying to explain it to me after the first three posts into an arguement... Honestly, I Enjoy this to no end, but I also hate that I can not obtain the information I need to be a beter asset to this guild. I read the rules, I interpret them one way, and then Mods come along, try to straighten it out, and this happens, rendering all I know about the rules useless, so I re read them, and I try again, using the previous logic of the person that answered my questions, and I unraveled how they thought. I am sorry that for the last week, that I spent on keeping Red out of trouble, He has an extreme Anarchist point of view, and I had to live in that mentality for the last week. Luckilly, in this arguement, I have been able to unravel Cobra's logic, and I will try to keep that Logic in place, however I can not guarentee that I will be able to do so, with my friends of multiple different logics, I doubt that cobra's logic will last for more than a day or two.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:50 am
Hinote Tosatsu xXZetsubou-KaesuXx Cobra_X You have EVERY RIGHT to question a decision, but you' don't have the right to do it in public. Here is where I disagree with you, I know it might not be the same everywhere in the world, but where I am from, I have the fredom of speech. and I'm not trying to say I am better than anyone, But I have the right to say things in public. This is where you are 100% wrong. You may have freedom of speech out there in the real world, and that is all well and good. But this is the internet. On the internet, you have the freedom of speech only so long as you follow the rules put forth. And starting an argument with the mods is against those rules, thus stripping you of your freedom of speech. Do you think you could stand up in the middle of a court case and start arguing with the judge without being thrown out of the room? Freedom of speech only goes just so far, and it ends the second you break a set rule. That is why other rules are in place, as long as you are level headed, in a court room, as long as you do not take any offencive action beyond verbal, if the Balif were to touch you, you could call police brutality, and then the Balif would have to release you, and if he did not do so, he would be punished acording to the ordinances of the state, city, county, district, and of the country. Also, The inrenet has it's own set of laws, agreed upon by the Governments of the world. And as such, Rules within the Rules of Rules have no effect upon the Ordinances of the internet.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:57 am
xXZetsubou-KaesuXx Hinote Tosatsu xXZetsubou-KaesuXx Cobra_X You have EVERY RIGHT to question a decision, but you' don't have the right to do it in public. Here is where I disagree with you, I know it might not be the same everywhere in the world, but where I am from, I have the fredom of speech. and I'm not trying to say I am better than anyone, But I have the right to say things in public. This is where you are 100% wrong. You may have freedom of speech out there in the real world, and that is all well and good. But this is the internet. On the internet, you have the freedom of speech only so long as you follow the rules put forth. And starting an argument with the mods is against those rules, thus stripping you of your freedom of speech. Do you think you could stand up in the middle of a court case and start arguing with the judge without being thrown out of the room? Freedom of speech only goes just so far, and it ends the second you break a set rule. That is why other rules are in place, as long as you are level headed, in a court room, as long as you do not take any offencive action beyond verbal, if the Balif were to touch you, you could call police brutality, and then the Balif would have to release you, and if he did not do so, he would be punished acording to the ordinances of the state, city, county, district, and of the country. Also, The inrenet has it's own set of laws, agreed upon by the Governments of the world. And as such, Rules within the Rules of Rules have no effect upon the Ordinances of the internet. If you started an argument in a courtroom, the judge would call you out on contempt of court, and have you removed. No call of police brutality would stop the guards from tossing you out. And I honestly have no clue what you are trying to say about the "Rules of the Internet". We have our own rules in this guild. Those rules override whatever rules you are talking about. Every website or forum has their own rules, and if people do not obey them actions are taken against them. If you try to cite a rule or law that has no bearing in this guild, the mods will just laugh while they execute whatever punishment you have earned. Now, as I stated a couple pages ago. Stop fighting. There is no argument to be had here, and it is growing rather old.
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:07 am
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! WHAT'S GOING ON!!! scream scream scream why are we already having another issue that needs every single mod involved!? I've read through the posts that got this argument started, and Zetsu, you need to listen to the mods. They were picked for a reason.
Yes it does say that learning bonuses do not stack. No it doesn't say that learning penalties stack with learning bonuses. But the fact of the matter is that they do. Otherwise rulings such as "when using a scroll the user will receive a +1 learning post penalty" wouldn't work, because almost everyone has some kind of learning bonus. Bonuses and penalties do stack.
If you are a tactical ninja with the offensive type, you are using a scroll, and you are in the wilderness, you would only have a -1 post learning bonus because they are all penalties from different sources.
I'm sorry that this was not written specifically in the rules, I thought it would come down to common sense, but I guess I was wrong. I will try and make time to put it in the rules when time allows and the crew and I aren't working on other things, but my ruling stands. Penalties are never ignored by a bonus.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:36 am
The Almighty One has spoken.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:37 am
I was talking about the Shinobi special skills, like how offencive gives you a +1, mixed with tactical, I didn't think that counted.
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