|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:20 pm
I don't get it. xd Belive me I've tried but I'm not very much for metaphors. When it comes to gaia comissions wich I know of I still think the same.
I dunno what I would do if the geek changed his mind about the videogames... I collect SNES & NES games so I would have kept them. xd
Okay I probobly would'nt recomend him to a friend whith computer problems. rolleyes I think diffrently when it comes to art, creativity requres will, passion and motivation.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:27 pm
Well, Chemie. I think that there was a misunderstanding early on here, and now we're just riding on that misunderstanding, while both making the same point.
Nobody is saying that an artist can't cancel a commission. They just need to actually say something about it. They need to say "Hey I'm sorry man, but I'm just having a really bad art block-- nothing I do looks right, so I can't finish your picture. I'm sorry about it".
The problem, and the point that's being brought up, is more just people who go "Oh what that thing? No I'm not doing that. I don't feel like it anymore" and that's that. In my opinion, that's a bit of a spoiled thing to do.
I mean, when I commission pictures, I RARELY commission just anyone. I only commission art if I reeeaally want the picture. I am picky as HELL. I don't mind waiting for a picture. I'll wait a year if I have to, but if I HAVE waited that year, I will be real upset if, after waiting a year, the artist says "Yeah I dont feel like it anymore. No picture for you."
That's a year that I've spent angsting and anticipating and being generally excited about this picture.
As I said, waiting a year for a picture that I really want is 100% a-ok with me. But waiting said year, then getting told "I dont feel like it anymore, no picture for you" is.. really frustrating. And I've had it happen multiple times.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:39 pm
and so, it all goes back to, if it's not that important to you to do art for gaia gold that you don't consider a high priority, don't offer them.
i know of people, who do that, over and over again, offer, make people feel bad for them, and then revoke the offer when they don't get the price that they want but dont' say. instead they ask for others to name a price to their art, and then get depressed/down when it's not as high as they think it should be. if that's the case FOR PETE'S SAKE JUST NAME THE PRICE ALREADY. D:
/not related at all: but i have low tolerance for people who try to get close to artists by buttkissing in the hopes of getting art. -___-;;
that really bugs me, when artists do that. I can understand cancelling a commission if rl problems arise, but it's not the same to just say "i don't feel like doing it anymore". and yes, i understand about art blocks, and i understand about inspirations. which is why i rarely do commissions now.
just on a side thing: chemie, you made a remark that when nora said something that pissed you off, and that's why you made a personal attack at her. what's the difference between you saying gold is worthless and that you can do whatever you want because you are an artist and you need your license any different? that, i'm sure, that statement on the value of digital worth probably irked quite a few people, especially those that earn their's different ways aside from art.
/ack sorry if i deviated, but i've been following the discussion for a while, and ...now i'm in an odd mood.
and anetra - i understand that only too well. which is why i too, rarely commission
edit/ and OMG i'm so retarded. my mind was thinking five different things when i was typing this, so sorry if it seems schizo, that's just my personality. /serious/ but it makes sense, most of it @___@;
add/2: omg, my grammar is so bad, i keep forgettting comma's and semi-colons and using run on sentences! D:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:12 pm
I believe that when you commission an artist, you make a binding contract with the artist, as the artist makes a binding contract with you.
If an artist keeps cancelling on people because "they don't feel like it" it will be a bad review amongst other interested buyers that "they never finish the art" & what not. Especially for those who take in more they can handle, & then cancel trades without notifying that they are cancelling trades.
However this is somewhat equal to the means of a commissioner stating no reason for cancelling a commission, by not notifying the artist & cancelling the trade without a word.
As long as an artist lets me know of the current circumstances, even if I haven't heard from them in a while - even a "Hey! I'm still alive but I've been busy IRL - but I'll get to it eventually!" makes me feel a lot better when it comes to commissioning art from someone. Or perhaps even, "Hello! I'm really sorry but I've been so caught up with my studies, I am going to have to cancel your commission, I apologize."
Everyone has a real life & responsibilities outside the Gaian world, so I can wait for art, it's understandable, but I really don't like it when people cancel just because they are uninspired & they don't feel like it. Everyone has an art slump, but a commission is a commission, it is a business proposition.
I honestly doubt the big guns in cancel commissions because they don't feel like it. Cancelling a lot + bad customer service = bad reviews. Regardless whether it's Gaia or not, word WILL get out about the artist & dealing with commissions whether you or the artist likes it or not.
The good news is, that unlike the "real world", commisisoners on Gaia don't really give a deadline {unless perhaps it's for a present maybe...} so I honestly don't see a problem.
It's when the communication breaks down - that's when the problems happen. I too would get pissed off if I don't hear from an artist in a long long time...but then I see them doing other things just as fast - but not my commission. Why? Because they don't feel "inspired"... At least that's the excuse.
If you are an artist, & are prone to often be "uninspired" & have "art blocks" - then you should learn from it & not take art commissions often. It's better that way then being caught in a slump between the deals of an artist & a commissioner, & if you ARE caught in between such a predicament, EXPLAIN to your commissioner your problem & ask if they are willing to wait etc.
I believe that commissioners need to be given more credit than they have. We pay them, we EXPECT a service, & we expect a result. Regardless whether it is gaian gold or not, it us unprofessional to go about making excuses & what not & then run around doing other arts etc --- but if they stated it nicely, & forwardly "Oh I can get to your work, but I have these to do FIRST..." Then it would be much better.
The whole "gaia gold is nothing" is not fair. If it really was nothing, then why would people BOTHER creating art auctions, art shops --- even play Gaia? It is something, whether people want to admit it or not, & if it really isn't - I'd love to see people giving away their gold right now to prove me wrong - all their items & what not. Sure as hell it's nothing... not.
Also, commissioners have EVERY right to call an artist "shitty" if they want. Why? Because it's from THEIR experience dealing with the artist. Same as an artist has a right to complain about a commissioner if they really want to, it all comes to down to experience & dealing with each other.
Perhaps say...Raesha has been dealing with an artist, the artist was good to her, delivered the art on time, & was nice about it all. But then LittleDream went to the same artist, the artist was rude to her, & they took months to give her her art...
How could you not say LittleDream has no right to call the artist "shitty"? It's from experience, it is an opinion & thus you cannot say that we have no right to our own view point & opinion.
It is also most likely that LittleDream would probably when a commissioner friend {art whore} wants to purchase art from THAT particular artist, LittleDream would tell of her experiences about the artist [about how the artist delt with her] - word would get around about such bad service. That's not bad mouthing either, that's just from experience.
Thus this opinion = reviews & reviews on an artist's customer service DOES get around. Also on Gaia or not Gaia, these artists would most likely act the same to real life commissions.
Because I believe Gaia is a practice way into real business ways on commissions. Many of the artists who have given me good customer services on Gaia, have done EXACTLY the same when I commission in real life - & by any business & by any customer that is what I expect when I pay for something REGARDLESS whether it may be in carrots, in bicycles, or real money.
It's just like when people speak l33t speak online, it ends up being molded into their minds when they do essays & English in class, or in real life. If they don't type properly online, they won't learn to improve their English when it comes to serious studies... it reflects in both worlds. The same goes for customer service in the Gaian art world.
This is my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:22 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:57 pm
:p My opinion at this point = Ehf.
So, anyone read and good literature lately? I've beenr eading Angels in America for class, and it's really awesome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:18 pm
Um, I hope I'm not in the list of bad artists who cancelled on Noraboo... I spent 30 hours (a lot of re-working due to all of the problems I had with it) on the piece I canceled, and gave it for free as a way of apology for not completing it as good as I had hoped. Its in my DA gallery... not in my scraps.
And anyway, to be honest, even if Im not on this list, I think its rather cowardly to make a snipe thread behind artists back. If you have a problem with an artist, please, give them the respect to bring it to their attention so they can discuss it with you, at least give them the chance to defend themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:25 pm
Kimaya Um, I hope I'm not in the list of bad artists who cancelled on Noraboo... I spent 30 hours (a lot of re-working due to all of the problems I had with it) on the piece I canceled, and gave it for free as a way of apology for not completing it as good as I had hoped. Its in my DA gallery... not in my scraps. And anyway, to be honest, even if Im not on this list, I think its rather cowardly to make a snipe thread behind artists back. If you have a problem with an artist, please, give them the respect to bring it to their attention so they can discuss it with you, at least give them the chance to defend themselves. It's NOT a snipe thread! Bad experiences lead to bad reviews - Noraboo is speaking from experience. Is it her fault she went through those bad experiences? No. Did she say that nobody has their right of opinion about artists? No, she didn't say that either. We have no right to say what Noraboo can & cannot feel, & that INCLUDES her experiences & reviews on artists she has commissioned. How do we know that artist was or wasn't bad? We are not Noraboo. The very SAME artist could have been nice to me, & had been say very fast in their art & finished it within a week. I could say, "Yes, the artist was very quick & fast & they were REALLY nice to me!" But that's from MY experience, & my opinion. Sure I can say, "Oh no, but that artist was really nice to me!" But who is to say that Noraboo's opinions are wrong? It's HER facts, because it's her experience. I am not her, I can't tell if the artist was mean, nice or what not. It's just like how I can say, "Oh yeah that artist has nice art BUT when I commissioned them, they disappeared on me & that sucks, & I tried to contact them but they never contacted me back..." Also when you ARE an artist you WILL have people going around saying how nice your art is at a point, as well as to suggest to their friends to commission you OR give around bad reviews that you fail to complete the commissions & what not. That's not back stabbing, that is not sniping that is FACT from EXPERIENCE. It is inevitable & it happens whether we like it or not. When you pay for something, when you purchase something, you EXPECT good quality & good customer service REGARDLESS whether it be Gaian or not. It is still a commission, it is still a contract, it is still a purchase.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:39 pm
and my eyes hurt from the alternating caps. @____@
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:43 pm
Its backstabbing when they don't bring the concerns (facts?) to the artist, or at least out in the open... it only allows one side to things: Noraboo's.
I understand the need to be able to tell other people you had a bad experience with a certain artist, but I think its bad that the other artist can't defend themselves. If you are going to call down an artist, please have the courage to do it in public at least so there can be both sides heard, or hold your peace.
Anyway, want some cold water? I think you are getting a little worked up over there.
*hands Lilithia a nice glass of water* there smile
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:50 pm
Kimaya Its backstabbing when they don't bring the concerns (facts?) to the artist, or at least out in the open... it only allows one side to things: Noraboo's. I understand the need to be able to tell other people you had a bad experience with a certain artist, but I think its bad that the other artist can't defend themselves. If you are going to call down an artist, please have the courage to do it in public at least so there can be both sides heard, or hold your peace. Anyway, want some cold water? I think you are getting a little worked up over there. *hands Lilithia a nice glass of water* there smile That's up to the commissioner not us - we can't tell if she's already spoken to the artist or not, that's out of our hands. The least we can do is hope that she's tried to contact the artist & speak of her opinion. However my views on commissioning is just like eating at a restaurant...persay... let's say you went to a restaurant & ordered...hmmm what do you want Kimaya? Steak? Okay! So your order steak, they take AGES to cook it & when they bring it out, it's not cooked properly, there are still some raw parts. Then after that you leave the restaurant & you tell your friends when they want to go there, "Oh that restaurant isn't good. They took so long to serve me, & they even didn't cook my steak properly!!" That's not backstabbing the restaurant, that's from fact, & it's not like every single restaurant in the franchise has time to run around defending itself. No. The best a restaurant, manager, can do is train their staff to improve & to try harder & be more responsible the next time & communicate better when serving a customer. Just like an artist. {except artists don't have restaurants & staff!}
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:58 pm
Personally, I'm like my OC, I like my steak a little raw... But I mean, when you get down to it, in any situation for any currency, it's this: Quote: "The bottom line is communication between the artist and the commissioner during the process. Most commissioners are understanding when artists have a lot of work. If they are not, an artist can very well refuse the commission and then tell other artists not to work for the commissioner. However, an artist can cancel a commission on a whim if he or she considers that they may or may not recieve bad reviews which the commissioner can give depending on his or her own opinion." Personally, I'm okay with this process. I've done my own share of commission drops and have my own share of commissions dropped on me. What I've started above is pretty much the natural cycle, I figure. You drop a commission, you face a risk. You commission someone, you face a risk. It's about both parties just thinking aforehand and knowing what they might get into. You just have to realize that this is the situation and you've got to be smart. Artists, choose your commissions wisely, and commissioners, choose your artists wisely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:02 pm
communication.
all we've really been saying is that, you can't judge other people's reactions/opinions on what you call your own.
it's all subjective. subjectivity because we are all biased in our own way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:27 pm
Anetra_Pendragon What is an Anthro?A lot of gaian artists say that they won't draw mechs, or anthros, or whatever else non-avatar type of thing. Now, I'd never worried about this in the past. None of my characters are mechs, they all have flesh, and to my knowledge none of my characters are anthros. BUT I just put an order in at a shop here on Gaia, for a picture of my tiefling character Gwyndalyn. The response I got from the aritst was something like "Didn't you read the rules I said I don't do anthros". This leaves me with the question of what the fhagre is an anthro? I thought they needed to be, you know, furry or something. If any of my characters were going to be accused of being an anthro, I'd thought for sure it would be Lilith-- I mean, she's got two forms, she's got scales, she has four horns and wings and a tail. But no, I've never had problems with her. It's little Gwyndalyn, who has... horns. So uh.. yeah. What defines an anthro on gaia?
Anyway, from what I've seen around Gaia this seems to be the norm:
Light anthro- things like kitty girls and the such.. They have the extras like ears and tails, but are pretty much human. Pretty little human Duchess shall be my example :3
Regular Anthro- Basically an animal in human form. It varies with styles from looking like a fur covered human (which is I think what she might have thought your character was?) Borrowing this one, not my char or an animal that just has the proportion of humans (aka still has the snout, can have paws or digigrade legs, etc etc) My fursona-heavy anthro
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:33 pm
Well, I think a commission is a much more personal transaction than buying dinner, but maybe thats the problem here. Maybe you don't think so?
Anyway, I am not saying Noraboo (or anyone) is in the wrong because I dont know the details... I dont know if Im on the thread or whatever it was, and I dont know if she talked to the people she felt were bad artists. Im only saying I hope that if that ever does happen that the person would bring their problem to me before going and talking to other people.
I feel anytime where someone cant communicate to the artist that there is a problem and go on and tell everyone else they had a bad experience, kind of deserve what they get because they couldnt become involved in solving the problem... we aren't mind readers we need to hear what the problem is so we can choose to defend ourselves or to right the "percieved" wrong. How can we know if there is a problem if we don't think there is one?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
