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Querl Dox
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:35 am


Newsarama
The fall of Geneon could be one of the biggest and nastiest bits of news this year.

At the moment, the distributor who provided America with such incredible anime and evergreen properties as Akira, Lupin III, Serial Experiment Lain, Last Exiles, Gankotsouo, Samurai Champloo, Black Lagoon, Ergo Proxy and many, many, many more is auctioning off its rights to these shows for whatever little they can get. Very informed sources tell me they wouldn’t be surprised if two more very long-running and equally important anime providers will be out of business by the end of 2008.

The reason? Video piracy. It’s gotten so bad that even though there are statistics that say the actual number of anime fans have increased by 30% over the last two years, the sales of anime DVDs has dropped as much as 50% in the same period of time.

What many of the pirates don’t understand is Geneon is the first domino in what could be an incredibly long chain. According to one source, it could go back to the studios, with at least one major anime studio also going down due to lack of American and international revenues. This can ricochet, too. American studios could savagely cut budgets at the minimum, or cease production altogether, if they don’t have studios like Japan’s Madhouse to pass on inbetweening and other such chores to.

The simple fact is while animation is getting cheaper, it’s still an expensive artform. While I discussed the coming of the one-person studio earlier, it isn’t here yet. Further, the animation is far more, well, cartoon-y, than shows like Avatar, The Simpsons or Legion. Shows like these involve small armies of production people.


stressed With Pioneer/Geneon going out of business, the chances of me ever seeing the rest of the Lupin the 3rd Series just went right down the toilet.

While I doubt pirating is the ONLY reason the anime business is in trouble (oversaturation and price-gouging also come to mind), I'm ticked.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:09 pm


Piracy is actually one of the smallest reasons, but it's the best party line they have to try and guilt people into not downloading. The fact is that decades of price gouging, inefficient production coupled with poor packaging and the persistent lack of merchandising and visability is what's killing the market (along with oversaturation).
Japanese animation companies are NOT going to go out of business because they're still getting paid in Japan through advertisements and marketing in the shows themselves when aired. Those shows are wildly popular there, where they know how the market, produce and package for cheap. They license out for bags, plushies, toys, clothing, video games. Animation has never, I repeat, NEVER made anyone millions. Batman The Animated Series made it's killing in clothing and toys, NOT the show itself, but these production companies are STUPID.
One of the reasons that the United States (and many countries) import Japanese animation is because the work is all done, all they have to do is add voices. And they're still trying to charge the rediculous prices they were able to get away with 30 years ago. But the fans aren't stupid, they can get the same product, faster, for free.
You can get peope to buy anything. How did the movie industry combat piracy? DVD extras, commentaries, easter eggs, ingenuitive layouts, artistic packaging. Entire seasons of tv shows for $50 in packaging an inch thick. Who here last saw a single DVD containing only 3 episodes of House MD?
How does the music industry fight it? It cries and whines that it's loosing money, attacks their target audience, and in the end the money never goes to the artists but to the bloated companies that produce the CDs (which almost never have inserts, booklettes or stickers anymore). Which one is still claiming foul?
Which one does the American import anime industry most resemble?

Ask the question: why do people pirate?

Is the answer because they want it all for free? Maybe. Or is it that they can't afford the product you're selling, which isn't worth the price they're paying? Isn't the target anime market mostly UNDER 25?

Lucifer Morningstar
Crew


Querl Dox
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:37 pm


I definitely concur with the last point. I bought my brother "Cowboy Bebop: the complete series" for Christmas. I didn't realize until after I bought it that, because of the price, it was probably a pirated copy.

I paid $30 for the set on Amazon and thought nothing of it until it was pointed out to me that the set I bought was supposed to be limited edition and retail for $150.

For, what is it, 24 episodes and the movie? Ridiculous. The era of DVD companies charging what they want because fans WILL pay it is coming to an end. It's not just anime that has this problem, but any strongly fan-based genre. I love 'Deep Space 9,' it's my favorite of all of the Star Trek series', but there is no way I can justify paying upwards of $90 per season for the show. The same for 'Dr. Who,' which has something like 10 episodes in a DVD set. That's paying $10 per EPISODE to watch something that was broadcast for free on TV.

On the other side of things, "Bender's Big Score" released direct on DVD had not only the movie, but several great extras, including fully voiced and animated deleted scenes, a voice-acted comic book, a presentation by Al Gore and a full episode of "Everyone Loves Hypno-Toad." All for about $15.

If Geneon/Pioneer wants to heap the blame on piracy, I suppose that's in their right, but it does nothing but drive them out of business if they don't see fit to solve the climate that caused it in the first place. It's their own doing that turned the anime market into a Feast/Famine climate.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:52 pm


The era of "The'll pay it because they HAVE to" has been over for about five years, but certain industries refuse to admitt it. Music and Japanese import animation are the two big ones.
Movies, television, even comic books have realized that you have to make the fan WANT your product, especially if the option of getting it for free exists. Packing items with extras, selling them in complete sets, elegant packaging...it helps. A LOT. Movies load with extras (a few come with soundtracks!), tv series pack an entire thing in one volume, comic book trade scheduals are fast and the trades are well made (often with the option of getting it in hardcover).
I would pay $50 for a well packaged, complete Cowboy Bebop set. MAYBE $60 if it's really fan-dabby-dabulous. Over $100? Never.
For the same reason I will probably never own Full Metal Alchemist legally. I will not pay $30 a DVD to get 4 episodes just because they come in a tin. There's not enough space for all those tins, the DVDs are bland, there's no extras. ******** it.
But I do have various Satoshi Kon movies on DVD. They're too gorgeous not to, especially Perfect Blue.
The American companies have to pay no one, NO ONE, but the voice actors, the translators/subtitlers, and some design people. Not artists, designers to assemble an American version of the packaging (should they wish to deviate from the existing). Add to that a few production assistants, maybe a dozen random employees, a marketing department (which doesn't need to be big as long as they're good) you don't need that many people.
I want to see a list of expendatures on this stuff.

Lucifer Morningstar
Crew


Querl Dox
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:02 pm


Technically, they pay for licensing the property too.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:08 pm


I'm trying to think of all the extra costs dragging them down. Licensing is the first and absolutely necessary cost. I'm trying to think of the stuff on top of that. Shipping master copies of film too would probably be expensive.
But once they have it in their hands and they're allowed to work with it, where does the money go?

I know some companies are s**t with licensing too though. Some will require them to purchuse X and Y (that don't sell well) if they want Z (which sells like tasers at a Paris Hilton convention). Tokyopop has this problem, which is why in their glut of titles there's only about 25% worth reading.

Lucifer Morningstar
Crew


Chris Powell

Hilarious Lunatic

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:40 pm


Woot! I just got Heroes Season 1 at Target for 19 bucks! biggrin
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:04 am


Super Mario Galaxy is amazing. It's so very trippy.

Zachary Overkill


Zachary T Paleozogt

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:41 am


going back to what Dox and Morningstar are talking about. i think it a matter of supply and demand. like anime is in high demand, but people are cheap and would rather get it free on youtube or some pirate. so it seem like there is hight demand, but low supply at the same time, witch lead to really high prices, and from that people are not going to speand that much on it. so that lead to lower demands. pluse the anime itself set the price.
ex: you can buy a box set of naruto witch has 13 episodes for like 40.00, yet you can only buy last exil in a box set with 26 ep for 90.00 wtf?
and then there is that bull of the dvd with just 4 ep that are like 20.00 a pop, witch is kind of stupid in the long run. i say all anime dvd should be in season/box set for a reasonable price. like 30-40 for a set of 15-20 ep seem fair.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:50 pm


Why does every zombie have to have one schmuck who gets bit and never tells anyone?

Chris Powell

Hilarious Lunatic


Jaeger_Ayers

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:55 pm


Chris Powell
Why does every zombie have to have one schmuck who gets bit and never tells anyone?
Actually the first 2 resident evil movies didn't. Haven't seen the third one.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:12 pm


Jaeger_Ayers
Chris Powell
Why does every zombie have to have one schmuck who gets bit and never tells anyone?
Actually the first 2 resident evil movies didn't. Haven't seen the third one.


Well, I'm watching it atm and it does.

Chris Powell

Hilarious Lunatic


Zachary T Paleozogt

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:51 pm


Chris Powell
Why does every zombie have to have one schmuck who gets bit and never tells anyone?

i think it because the person who is bit, is selfish and fears death. so they rather not bet left for dead or to have a gun to the head. pluse they hope there is a chance they come across a cure.

if i was bit by a zombie, i'd rather someone end my life before i turned into a zombie or i would go on a suicide mission to help the other.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:46 pm


Shoot'em Up is possibly one of the most unrealistic and silliest movies I have ever seen. I loved it.

Chris Powell

Hilarious Lunatic


Tad Ryerstad
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:53 pm


Jaeger_Ayers
Chris Powell
Why does every zombie have to have one schmuck who gets bit and never tells anyone?
Actually the first 2 resident evil movies didn't. Haven't seen the third one.
Didn't the first one have that one dude who got bit, so they gave him a revolver with a single shot in it? Who then comes back later and helps even though he's zombifiying?
Reply
Kapow! The Gaian Superhero Guild

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