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 Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:56 pm
Quote: Do you remember worshiping at all, where you got really, spiritually moved, and started to break down and cry in the middle of the service? Yep. Pretty much every Shabbat, during dance...
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:15 pm
Talmar_Star_Blood Quote: Do you remember worshiping at all, where you got really, spiritually moved, and started to break down and cry in the middle of the service? Yep. Pretty much every Shabbat, during dance... I was talking to Lethkar, but that's cool. Crying during dancing? How did you keep dancing?
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:12 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 1. So all of those arguments are to prove to me that there is no free will? Yeah, pretty much. People in this day and age trying to prove free will is like people in the 1700's trying to prove that people existed. What, you mean Descartes? Well, at that time debate over Descartes's writings was very popular. Please, prove to me that we have free will. Quote: Quote: Quote: 2. That's where faith comes in. You don't understand faith untill you actually experience it. I have. I'm a former theist. I used to think He existed. Do you remember worshiping at all, where you got really, spiritually moved, and started to break down and cry in the middle of the service? I have done that on two occasions. Quote: Quote: Quote: 3. How do you know what my sect of Christianity is? How do you know that I even have a sect? It doesn't matter. What I do know is that for whatever sect of Christianity (For even if you are only one person you are still a sect) you are in, I'm sure I can think of people who are more zealous about their religious choice. How can you possibly think that? You know nothing about me besides what I tell you. Hell, I could be lying to you about this. I could be a Buddhist for all you know! You know nothing. . . NOTHING!!!. . . about how i feel about my religion! So? I still know that you have internet access, and that you use it. Because of this, I can deduce that you do, in fact, support the actions of certain people that are not of your religious stance. You're not a crazy zealot, and I respect you for that.
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:13 am
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 1. So all of those arguments are to prove to me that there is no free will? Yeah, pretty much. People in this day and age trying to prove free will is like people in the 1700's trying to prove that people existed. What, you mean Descartes? Well, at that time debate over Descartes's writings was very popular. Please, prove to me that we have free will. Why? First off I dont' think that I can do it using your logic. What purpose would it serve? Are you going to suddenly believe in God because I do so? No. So why waste my time trying to do something pointless and futile. Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: 2. That's where faith comes in. You don't understand faith untill you actually experience it. I have. I'm a former theist. I used to think He existed. Do you remember worshiping at all, where you got really, spiritually moved, and started to break down and cry in the middle of the service? I have done that on two occasions. Ok, then you know what it feels like. Why did you leave the religion just because you can't prove it? (I realize that this might be a very personal question that you don't want to answer. You don't have to if you don't want to.) Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: 3. How do you know what my sect of Christianity is? How do you know that I even have a sect? It doesn't matter. What I do know is that for whatever sect of Christianity (For even if you are only one person you are still a sect) you are in, I'm sure I can think of people who are more zealous about their religious choice. How can you possibly think that? You know nothing about me besides what I tell you. Hell, I could be lying to you about this. I could be a Buddhist for all you know! You know nothing. . . NOTHING!!!. . . about how i feel about my religion! So? I still know that you have internet access, and that you use it. Because of this, I can deduce that you do, in fact, support the actions of certain people that are not of your religious stance. You're not a crazy zealot, and I respect you for that. That's what you meant by "more zealous". I respect you for respecting me.
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:12 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 1. So all of those arguments are to prove to me that there is no free will? Yeah, pretty much. People in this day and age trying to prove free will is like people in the 1700's trying to prove that people existed. What, you mean Descartes? Well, at that time debate over Descartes's writings was very popular. Please, prove to me that we have free will. Why? First off I dont' think that I can do it using your logic. What purpose would it serve? Are you going to suddenly believe in God because I do so? No. So why waste my time trying to do something pointless and futile. The reason for debate is not to convince your opponent of your viewpoint, but to convince onlookers and to either question your own beliefs or reinforce them. It's an intellectual sport. We do it for the same reason we play any other sport. Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: 2. That's where faith comes in. You don't understand faith untill you actually experience it. I have. I'm a former theist. I used to think He existed. Do you remember worshiping at all, where you got really, spiritually moved, and started to break down and cry in the middle of the service? I have done that on two occasions. Ok, then you know what it feels like. Why did you leave the religion just because you can't prove it? (I realize that this might be a very personal question that you don't want to answer. You don't have to if you don't want to.) I'm confused by your question. You seem to have answered it yourself: GuardianAngel44 Why did you leave the religion just because you can't prove it? I mean, what exactly do you want me to tell you that you don't already know? I left religion for other reasons, but that's one of the main ones.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:30 pm
1. Yes, but I've already tried, and obviously failed. You just won't believe. Fine, I'll try again. See? Free will.
2. So even after you completely broke down twice and felt the spirit of God flowing through you. . . and you felt sooo alive. . . you left just because you couldn't prove it? Then why don't you leave atheism? YOu can't prove that either.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:43 pm
GuardianAngel44 Talmar_Star_Blood Quote: Do you remember worshiping at all, where you got really, spiritually moved, and started to break down and cry in the middle of the service? Yep. Pretty much every Shabbat, during dance... I was talking to Lethkar, but that's cool. Crying during dancing? How did you keep dancing? I always cry silently. It's a byproduct of being teased too much... I learned to hide it, and now it's a little hard not to.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:25 pm
GuardianAngel44 1. Yes, but I've already tried, and obviously failed. You just won't believe. Fine, I'll try again. See? Free will. "Debate" usually entails giving some form of evidence or logic behind your statement. neutral Quote: 2. So even after you completely broke down twice and felt the spirit of God flowing through you. . . and you felt sooo alive. . . you left just because you couldn't prove it? Then why don't you leave atheism? YOu can't prove that either. I've broken down and felt alive doing other things. I don't think it was the "spirit" that moved me, in both instances. I just happened to cry in a church. The first time was because I felt bad for Judas (I was 7 or so). The second time was recently, when I realized that I did, in fact, believe in a greater force of some sort (Though certainly in a very rational way, without any bearded guy in the sky, or Heaven, or even a holy book...Or maybe all of those things...). I don't need to prove atheism. My atheism makes no claim that needs to be proven. I do not believe in a deity. Because the burden of proof is on the existence of a deity, atheism's pretty rock solid until a deity is proven.
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:53 pm
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 1. Yes, but I've already tried, and obviously failed. You just won't believe. Fine, I'll try again. See? Free will. "Debate" usually entails giving some form of evidence or logic behind your statement. neutral I did use logic. I decided to debate with you again. I chose that. I'm choosing what to write right now. Free will. Quote: Quote: 2. So even after you completely broke down twice and felt the spirit of God flowing through you. . . and you felt sooo alive. . . you left just because you couldn't prove it? Then why don't you leave atheism? YOu can't prove that either. I've broken down and felt alive doing other things. I don't think it was the "spirit" that moved me, in both instances. I just happened to cry in a church. The first time was because I felt bad for Judas (I was 7 or so). The second time was recently, when I realized that I did, in fact, believe in a greater force of some sort (Though certainly in a very rational way, without any bearded guy in the sky, or Heaven, or even a holy book...Or maybe all of those things...). I don't need to prove atheism. My atheism makes no claim that needs to be proven. I do not believe in a deity. Because the burden of proof is on the existence of a deity, atheism's pretty rock solid until a deity is proven. Atheism claims that there is no deity. You have to prove atheism by disproving a deity. And you can't do that untill you prove the deity. And when you prove it, you can't disprove it. Sound pretty illogical to me. . .
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:01 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 1. Yes, but I've already tried, and obviously failed. You just won't believe. Fine, I'll try again. See? Free will. "Debate" usually entails giving some form of evidence or logic behind your statement. neutral I did use logic. I decided to debate with you again. I chose that. I'm choosing what to write right now. Free will. I'm taking psychology right now. There are two things that determine human behavior: 1. Our genes 2. Our environment Because both of these are beyond our control, free will is actually an illusion. Quote: Quote: Quote: 2. So even after you completely broke down twice and felt the spirit of God flowing through you. . . and you felt sooo alive. . . you left just because you couldn't prove it? Then why don't you leave atheism? YOu can't prove that either. I've broken down and felt alive doing other things. I don't think it was the "spirit" that moved me, in both instances. I just happened to cry in a church. The first time was because I felt bad for Judas (I was 7 or so). The second time was recently, when I realized that I did, in fact, believe in a greater force of some sort (Though certainly in a very rational way, without any bearded guy in the sky, or Heaven, or even a holy book...Or maybe all of those things...). I don't need to prove atheism. My atheism makes no claim that needs to be proven. I do not believe in a deity. Because the burden of proof is on the existence of a deity, atheism's pretty rock solid until a deity is proven. Atheism claims that there is no deity. You have to prove atheism by disproving a deity. And you can't do that untill you prove the deity. And when you prove it, you can't disprove it. Sound pretty illogical to me. . . Unfortunately, it's not.Atheism makes no claim. It merely denies a claim that has already been made.
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:31 pm
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 1. Yes, but I've already tried, and obviously failed. You just won't believe. Fine, I'll try again. See? Free will. "Debate" usually entails giving some form of evidence or logic behind your statement. neutral I did use logic. I decided to debate with you again. I chose that. I'm choosing what to write right now. Free will. I'm taking psychology right now. There are two things that determine human behavior: 1. Our genes 2. Our environment Because both of these are beyond our control, free will is actually an illusion. So you believe that you have no choice in what happens; that your environment controls your every move? That is the most illogical concept in the world. That's more illogical than the KKK. Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: 2. So even after you completely broke down twice and felt the spirit of God flowing through you. . . and you felt sooo alive. . . you left just because you couldn't prove it? Then why don't you leave atheism? YOu can't prove that either. I've broken down and felt alive doing other things. I don't think it was the "spirit" that moved me, in both instances. I just happened to cry in a church. The first time was because I felt bad for Judas (I was 7 or so). The second time was recently, when I realized that I did, in fact, believe in a greater force of some sort (Though certainly in a very rational way, without any bearded guy in the sky, or Heaven, or even a holy book...Or maybe all of those things...). I don't need to prove atheism. My atheism makes no claim that needs to be proven. I do not believe in a deity. Because the burden of proof is on the existence of a deity, atheism's pretty rock solid until a deity is proven. Atheism claims that there is no deity. You have to prove atheism by disproving a deity. And you can't do that untill you prove the deity. And when you prove it, you can't disprove it. Sound pretty illogical to me. . . Unfortunately, it's not.Atheism makes no claim. It merely denies a claim that has already been made. Ok, I concede that point.
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:35 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 1. Yes, but I've already tried, and obviously failed. You just won't believe. Fine, I'll try again. See? Free will. "Debate" usually entails giving some form of evidence or logic behind your statement. neutral I did use logic. I decided to debate with you again. I chose that. I'm choosing what to write right now. Free will. I'm taking psychology right now. There are two things that determine human behavior: 1. Our genes 2. Our environment Because both of these are beyond our control, free will is actually an illusion. So you believe that you have no choice in what happens; that your environment controls your every move? No, I believe that I have a choice. However, I do not believe that I have a choice in what my choice is. My environment and my genes control what my will is. Hence, I have a will, but it's not completely free. Does that make sense? Quote: That is the most illogical concept in the world. That's more illogical than the KKK. Please, explain why it's illogical.
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:15 am
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 1. Yes, but I've already tried, and obviously failed. You just won't believe. Fine, I'll try again. See? Free will. "Debate" usually entails giving some form of evidence or logic behind your statement. neutral I did use logic. I decided to debate with you again. I chose that. I'm choosing what to write right now. Free will. I'm taking psychology right now. There are two things that determine human behavior: 1. Our genes 2. Our environment Because both of these are beyond our control, free will is actually an illusion. So you believe that you have no choice in what happens; that your environment controls your every move? No, I believe that I have a choice. However, I do not believe that I have a choice in what my choice is. My environment and my genes control what my will is. Hence, I have a will, but it's not completely free. Does that make sense? Oh. . . that explains alot. That's exactly what I was thinking!!!!! Grrrrrrrr. . . scream Quote: That is the most illogical concept in the world. That's more illogical than the KKK. Please, explain why it's illogical. Well, I thought that you were saying that we had almost no will at all and didn't make our own choices. . . do you see how that's illogical???
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:52 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 I did use logic. I decided to debate with you again. I chose that. I'm choosing what to write right now. Free will. I'm taking psychology right now. There are two things that determine human behavior: 1. Our genes 2. Our environment Because both of these are beyond our control, free will is actually an illusion. So you believe that you have no choice in what happens; that your environment controls your every move? No, I believe that I have a choice. However, I do not believe that I have a choice in what my choice is. My environment and my genes control what my will is. Hence, I have a will, but it's not completely free. Does that make sense? Oh. . . that explains alot. That's exactly what I was thinking!!!!! Grrrrrrrr. . . scream Quote: Quote: That is the most illogical concept in the world. That's more illogical than the KKK. Please, explain why it's illogical. Well, I thought that you were saying that we had almost no will at all and didn't make our own choices. . . do you see how that's illogical??? I don't know...Do you concede that free will is an illusion, then?
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:14 pm
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar I'm taking psychology right now. There are two things that determine human behavior: 1. Our genes 2. Our environment Because both of these are beyond our control, free will is actually an illusion. So you believe that you have no choice in what happens; that your environment controls your every move? No, I believe that I have a choice. However, I do not believe that I have a choice in what my choice is. My environment and my genes control what my will is. Hence, I have a will, but it's not completely free. Does that make sense? Oh. . . that explains alot. That's exactly what I was thinking!!!!! Grrrrrrrr. . . scream Quote: Quote: That is the most illogical concept in the world. That's more illogical than the KKK. Please, explain why it's illogical. Well, I thought that you were saying that we had almost no will at all and didn't make our own choices. . . do you see how that's illogical??? I don't know...Do you concede that free will is an illusion, then? Well, if you mean by "free" that only we determine our choices without any other influence, then yes. Do you agree that we do determine our choices, although with outside influence?
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