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Shewalksinbeauty

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:50 am


I belong to a reform synagogue too. From what I know my rabbi is very accepting. But to the people who make biblical references. The problem with that is, today's world is not what it was during the creation of the Torah. Today's world, in some ways just as conservative, in some ways more liberal, needs to accept homosexuality because so many more people are finding it easier to come out openly. Although we do need to listen to the teachings of the Torah, we still need to keep up with the times. WHy do you think the creators of the Consitution of the US left room for amendments? And the United Nations amends their resolutions? Because the times, they are achangin'. And we have to keep up with them.
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 1:05 pm


Shewalksinbeauty
I belong to a reform synagogue too. From what I know my rabbi is very accepting. But to the people who make biblical references. The problem with that is, today's world is not what it was during the creation of the Torah. Today's world, in some ways just as conservative, in some ways more liberal, needs to accept homosexuality because so many more people are finding it easier to come out openly. Although we do need to listen to the teachings of the Torah, we still need to keep up with the times. WHy do you think the creators of the Consitution of the US left room for amendments? And the United Nations amends their resolutions? Because the times, they are achangin'. And we have to keep up with them.
not to be offensive in any way what yout saying is god didn't realise the world would turn out as it did?

ScionoftheBlade


Kiashana
Crew

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 2:18 pm


ScionoftheBlade
Shewalksinbeauty
I belong to a reform synagogue too. From what I know my rabbi is very accepting. But to the people who make biblical references. The problem with that is, today's world is not what it was during the creation of the Torah. Today's world, in some ways just as conservative, in some ways more liberal, needs to accept homosexuality because so many more people are finding it easier to come out openly. Although we do need to listen to the teachings of the Torah, we still need to keep up with the times. WHy do you think the creators of the Consitution of the US left room for amendments? And the United Nations amends their resolutions? Because the times, they are achangin'. And we have to keep up with them.
not to be offensive in any way what yout saying is god didn't realise the world would turn out as it did?

Well, why not? After all, we have free will, and we have the mitzvah of Tikkun Olam, right? Which means that we're supposed to shape the world until it's complete. So why would God be totally aware of how things would turn out? If he did, that would mean we don't have free will, and we're just following his path.
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 3:47 pm


Kiashana
ScionoftheBlade
Shewalksinbeauty
I belong to a reform synagogue too. From what I know my rabbi is very accepting. But to the people who make biblical references. The problem with that is, today's world is not what it was during the creation of the Torah. Today's world, in some ways just as conservative, in some ways more liberal, needs to accept homosexuality because so many more people are finding it easier to come out openly. Although we do need to listen to the teachings of the Torah, we still need to keep up with the times. WHy do you think the creators of the Consitution of the US left room for amendments? And the United Nations amends their resolutions? Because the times, they are achangin'. And we have to keep up with them.
not to be offensive in any way what yout saying is god didn't realise the world would turn out as it did?

Well, why not? After all, we have free will, and we have the mitzvah of Tikkun Olam, right? Which means that we're supposed to shape the world until it's complete. So why would God be totally aware of how things would turn out? If he did, that would mean we don't have free will, and we're just following his path.
Congratulations on finding one of the most philosophically argued points in jewdiasm. how can someone know the future if we have free will? The short version of the answer is "He's god we can't really understand it" although if you like I prefer the "God chooses to seee all possible outcomes without "seeing" which path we shall choose and consequently wrote the Torah to satisffy all possible outcomes.

If I were to agree to what you said though that would mean the Entire Torah is outdated and shouldn't be lisened too. Just because "Torah ein Bashamayin" doesn't meen we can argeu against Pesukim.

Personally I have no problem with you doing whatever it is you want. Just don't pretend its ok.

ScionoftheBlade


blarglegargle

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:22 pm


Ultimately, no religion states, hands down, that you can't be homosexual.

The only place I have seen people us religion as an excuse to hate homosexuals stems from Leviticus. I am afraid I can't remember the exact verse or whatnot, but I remember the gist of it. Its talking about forbidden sexual acts, such as sleeping with your brother's wife. It then goes onto forbidden religious acts, and specificly mentions somthing along the line of 'offering up your childrein to -insert idolic god's name here-.'

IMMEDIATELY after that, it stats that a man shall not like with another man; 'it is an obimination'. Ok, so the Old Testiment says for one dude to not have sex with another dude.

Somewhere in the Old Testiment, however, it states that you DO NOT have to follow certain rules if it interferes with your health. This means that a Type I Diabetic such as myseld doesn't have to fast.

Now, I personally believe homosexuality to be a mental disorder, stemming from a chemical imballance. As such, they would be compelled to commit homosexual acts. The Torah would ALLOW them to do this, because its a medical condition. Lets look at every side of the argument, however. Lets say homosexuality isn't a medical condition. In order for a person, homosexual or not, to remain mentally healthy, they have to have sex. Its an established fact. To deny someone of that is literally a threat to their health, somthing with the Torah is absolutely against.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:12 pm


I'm a little worried with religon and stuff like that because I'm bi. xp

nicegirl13


aniri

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:36 pm


So if homosexuality is a mental disorder and a medical condition, why is it considered okay by some?

If it's a normal state of mind then, what is normal and what should or shouldn't be accepted?

XD, I'm comfused...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:27 pm


aniri
So if homosexuality is a mental disorder and a medical condition, why is it considered okay by some?


For the sake of argument, please keep in mind that is my personal belief, and not a world-wide accepted fact. The people who think its OK are probably the people who don't believe in taking medicine, or treating a mental dissorder. Thats just the way you were suposed to be, right? Wrong. Its a problem, and we have come to an understanding of medicine where we can get rid of these problems. Why don't we?

blarglegargle


Lavyne

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:48 am


Tsuto
aniri
So if homosexuality is a mental disorder and a medical condition, why is it considered okay by some?


For the sake of argument, please keep in mind that is my personal belief, and not a world-wide accepted fact. The people who think its OK are probably the people who don't believe in taking medicine, or treating a mental dissorder. Thats just the way you were suposed to be, right? Wrong. Its a problem, and we have come to an understanding of medicine where we can get rid of these problems. Why don't we?

In fact, it was removed from the American Psychiatric Association's list of mental disorders in 1973.
Quote:
Is Homosexuality a Mental Illness or Emotional Problem?

No. Psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness, mental disorder or an emotional problem. Over 35 years of objective, well-designed scientific research has shown that homosexuality, in and itself,is not associated with mental disorders or emotional or social problems. Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information. In the past the studies of gay, lesbian and bisexual people involved only those in therapy, thus biasing the resulting conclusions. When researchers examined data about these people who were not in therapy, the idea that homosexuality was a mental illness was quickly found to be untrue.

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association confirmed the importance of the new, better designed research and removed homosexuality from the official manual that lists mental and emotional disorders. Two years later, the American Psychological Association passed a resolution supporting the removal. For more than 25 years, both associations have urged all mental health professionals to help dispel the stigma of mental illness that some people still associate with homosexual orientation.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:48 am


lavyne- finally someone else who does research. I've sited that passage several times in various ED threads, and am thus ignored. xp

As for transgender in judaism- I think it's cool. Then again I'm pretty laid back so, yeah...

phobia2001


tokyo2040

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:00 am


YvetteEmilieDupont

the cathlics are very openly against homosexuality, that is the big turn off my bestest bestest best friend is lesbain.. and she goes out with my other friend .... o.0 i think i hooked them up now that i think about it.. anywho.

this isn't the main and only reason i am wanting to join judaism just one of the bigger reasons lol


It's a bigger reason you want to convert to Judasim? Actually the Old Testament is against homosexuality. So technically we should be just as hesitant as Catholics. But of course we are open to change.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:25 am


ooo looks like we're heading towards another S'dom and Gomorrah.. xd

tokyo2040


SodapopZ

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:27 am


Kiashana
SodapopZ
but being trans is sort of irregardless of who I sleep with... I was thinking that maybe it conflicts with that no-crossdressing rule.

Except are transgendered people really cross-dressing? After all, they identify as the gender that they dress as most of the time.


yeah, but apparently I heard there's some part in the torah or somewhere in the writings that says eunuchs are not allowed in the temple. I don't know if this was a time period thing (because eunuchs were pagans) or if this was something really important and imparative. I know that I'm supposed to have kids but even when I was younger I had decided to adopt because I would rather give a kid a chance than to have my own.

I'm just concerned that it's going against G-d but ... I don't think I have a choice anymore. I think I just have to follow my heart. I just think that it's stupid to transition without having G-d there to assist you and be there. There's no point in it then.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:25 am


well shuls r for everybody, they cant keep people out can they? i mean, my jewish community is falling apart. all of the familys are moving, and i live in the college area, so basically our community is just jewish college kids now.

mellella


ZonkotheSane

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:53 pm


just a fact that might have been overlooked:

the verse from leviticus, "you shall not lie with another man as you would with a woman, for it is an abomination", is inclusive of all homsexual acts, not only malexmale. the reason being in the grammar (this happens ALOT, and is impossible to translate). the reason being that the verse is stated in the plural, referring to more than is mentioned (as opposed to being stated in the singular, which is the usuall case). from this we learn that the prohibition is inclusive of lesbianism.
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