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 Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:34 pm
~Ichigo_Pie~ It doesn't matter what they say, self practice of a religion means you are of that religion (other wise you wouldn't be practicing it ne?) I've found plenty of sources that back me up, and found PLENTY of legal documents that state the courts consider you wiccan. Alaois can suck my c**t =P you're wiccan whether he likes it or not. xD that's....awesome..
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:43 pm
haha I'm vulgar XP (granted I don't hate Alaois at all, in fact he's- I'm assuming gender forgive me if I'm wrong -a great asset against temporary, and he has the ability to think logically, I just disagree with him about sub-categories of wicca and wicca itself. The c**t thing was just a vulgar joke XD
=)
I'm done in that thread. I've proven my point. Many wiccans of covens and solitary wiccans and the government consider you a part of the wiccan faith.
We win, they're just being sore losers
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:36 pm
Don't get wrong, Wicca probably has changed slightly in the last 60 years, but Tradition Wicca is still the correct Wicca, others may claim the title but British Tradition Wicca is the true form.
People like Buckland, Cunningham, and Mama Silver -curses that name- have really messed up Wicca for those that follow Traditional Wicca.
Silver Ravenwolf has really tainted Wicca and turned it into a "rebellion" religion for teens of today, because you are told to lie to mommy and daddy and tell them you're an 'angel'
-sighs-
But I cannot change your opinion, regardless what I've said, all I can do is still refer you to the Amber and Jet Mailing list and the Wicca FAQ.
And For the Record, I'm a male, my avatar makes it hard to guess my sex.
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:48 pm
Alaois Don't get wrong, Wicca probably has changed slightly in the last 60 years, but Tradition Wicca is still the correct Wicca, others may claim the title but British Tradition Wicca is the true form. People like Buckland, Cunningham, and Mama Silver -curses that name- have really messed up Wicca for those that follow Traditional Wicca. Silver Ravenwolf has really tainted Wicca and turned it into a "rebellion" religion for teens of today, because you are told to lie to mommy and daddy and tell them you're an 'angel' -sighs- But I cannot change your opinion, regardless what I've said, all I can do is still refer you to the Amber and Jet Mailing list and the Wicca FAQ. And For the Record, I'm a male, my avatar makes it hard to guess my sex. but why should they be separated from the religion just because they don't practice in a coven, even when they still do everything else the same? it is still the same religion if they hold the same beliefs. That's how I see these things. I just know lots of females with male avatars and lots of males with female so I didn't want to say that you were male just because a male avatar is what I see.
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:57 pm
~Ichigo_Pie~ Alaois Don't get wrong, Wicca probably has changed slightly in the last 60 years, but Tradition Wicca is still the correct Wicca, others may claim the title but British Tradition Wicca is the true form. People like Buckland, Cunningham, and Mama Silver -curses that name- have really messed up Wicca for those that follow Traditional Wicca. Silver Ravenwolf has really tainted Wicca and turned it into a "rebellion" religion for teens of today, because you are told to lie to mommy and daddy and tell them you're an 'angel' -sighs- But I cannot change your opinion, regardless what I've said, all I can do is still refer you to the Amber and Jet Mailing list and the Wicca FAQ. And For the Record, I'm a male, my avatar makes it hard to guess my sex. but why should they be separated from the religion just because they don't practice in a coven, even when they still do everything else the same? it is still the same religion if they hold the same beliefs. That's how I see these things. I just know lots of females with male avatars and lots of males with female so I didn't want to say that you were male just because a male avatar is what I see. I understand that confusion and the questioning of it, but you cannot learn everything about Wicca without being initiated. Solitary Witchcraft and Wicca aren't the same thing either, depending on the circumstances anyway. Solitary Witches will never learn the true name of the Lord and Lady and if they were once initiated, they still cannot tell anyone the name because of the Oath they make once they become initiated. Buckland is considered an oathbreaker because of things he has said and done, as well as using Ango-Saxton beliefs within his form of Witchcraft (Saxo-Wicca). Silver Ravenwolf was never a Wiccan and is probably one of the worst people to use as a base for your turning to "Wicca.' Scott Cunningham was a 1st degree initiate before he left and formed his own version of Witchcraft (originally called Neo-Wicca, but now Standing Stone solitary Witchcraft). Don't get me wrong, being a Solitary Witch isn't a bad thing and I never tried to say it was, but unless you've been initiated into a coven who's lineage is traced back to Gardner, you shouldn't really take that name Wicca. It's an insult to many followers of British Traditional Wiccans.
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:05 pm
Alaois ~Ichigo_Pie~ Alaois Don't get wrong, Wicca probably has changed slightly in the last 60 years, but Tradition Wicca is still the correct Wicca, others may claim the title but British Tradition Wicca is the true form. People like Buckland, Cunningham, and Mama Silver -curses that name- have really messed up Wicca for those that follow Traditional Wicca. Silver Ravenwolf has really tainted Wicca and turned it into a "rebellion" religion for teens of today, because you are told to lie to mommy and daddy and tell them you're an 'angel' -sighs- But I cannot change your opinion, regardless what I've said, all I can do is still refer you to the Amber and Jet Mailing list and the Wicca FAQ. And For the Record, I'm a male, my avatar makes it hard to guess my sex. but why should they be separated from the religion just because they don't practice in a coven, even when they still do everything else the same? it is still the same religion if they hold the same beliefs. That's how I see these things. I just know lots of females with male avatars and lots of males with female so I didn't want to say that you were male just because a male avatar is what I see. I understand that confusion and the questioning of it, but you cannot learn everything about Wicca without being initiated. Solitary Witchcraft and Wicca aren't the same thing either, depending on the circumstances anyway. Solitary Witches will never learn the true name of the Lord and Lady and if they were once initiated, they still cannot tell anyone the name because of the Oath they make once they become initiated. Buckland is considered an oathbreaker because of things he has said and done, as well as using Ango-Saxton beliefs within his form of Witchcraft (Saxo-Wicca). Silver Ravenwolf was never a Wiccan and is probably one of the worst people to use as a base for your turning to "Wicca.' Scott Cunningham was a 1st degree initiate before he left and formed his own version of Witchcraft (originally called Neo-Wicca, but now Standing Stone solitary Witchcraft). Don't get me wrong, being a Solitary Witch isn't a bad thing and I never tried to say it was, but unless you've been initiated into a coven who's lineage is traced back to Gardner, you shouldn't really take that name Wicca. It's an insult to many followers of British Traditional Wiccans. So if a witch of a coven leaves that coven for whatever reason - logical or not, they should no longer be classified as a wiccan even if that's what they believe? And what about my high priest friend and high priestess friend who have both been in covens, and lead many covens? Are they no longer wiccan just because they are not actively participating in a coven at the moment?? the OP even said she would love to join a coven, she just can't at the moment. She should avoid being a wiccan for that matter? its still her faith and her beliefs. I agree, if you call yourself wiccan just because "its cool" or to rebel or whatever, it's an insult, but I don't think its an insult to take the name if you study it, truly believe it, actively practice it, and honestly want to be an active member in the religion. What about the people who join covens just to be cool? are they more wiccan than our op? I think beliefs speak a lot more in terms of genuine religious affiliation.
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:09 pm
Wow Wicca is soo interesting!
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:19 pm
~Ichigo_Pie~ Alaois ~Ichigo_Pie~ Alaois Don't get wrong, Wicca probably has changed slightly in the last 60 years, but Tradition Wicca is still the correct Wicca, others may claim the title but British Tradition Wicca is the true form. People like Buckland, Cunningham, and Mama Silver -curses that name- have really messed up Wicca for those that follow Traditional Wicca. Silver Ravenwolf has really tainted Wicca and turned it into a "rebellion" religion for teens of today, because you are told to lie to mommy and daddy and tell them you're an 'angel' -sighs- But I cannot change your opinion, regardless what I've said, all I can do is still refer you to the Amber and Jet Mailing list and the Wicca FAQ. And For the Record, I'm a male, my avatar makes it hard to guess my sex. but why should they be separated from the religion just because they don't practice in a coven, even when they still do everything else the same? it is still the same religion if they hold the same beliefs. That's how I see these things. I just know lots of females with male avatars and lots of males with female so I didn't want to say that you were male just because a male avatar is what I see. I understand that confusion and the questioning of it, but you cannot learn everything about Wicca without being initiated. Solitary Witchcraft and Wicca aren't the same thing either, depending on the circumstances anyway. Solitary Witches will never learn the true name of the Lord and Lady and if they were once initiated, they still cannot tell anyone the name because of the Oath they make once they become initiated. Buckland is considered an oathbreaker because of things he has said and done, as well as using Ango-Saxton beliefs within his form of Witchcraft (Saxo-Wicca). Silver Ravenwolf was never a Wiccan and is probably one of the worst people to use as a base for your turning to "Wicca.' Scott Cunningham was a 1st degree initiate before he left and formed his own version of Witchcraft (originally called Neo-Wicca, but now Standing Stone solitary Witchcraft). Don't get me wrong, being a Solitary Witch isn't a bad thing and I never tried to say it was, but unless you've been initiated into a coven who's lineage is traced back to Gardner, you shouldn't really take that name Wicca. It's an insult to many followers of British Traditional Wiccans. So if a witch of a coven leaves that coven for whatever reason - logical or not, they should no longer be classified as a wiccan even if that's what they believe? And what about my high priest friend and high priestess friend who have both been in covens, and lead many covens? Are they no longer wiccan just because they are not actively participating in a coven at the moment?? the OP even said she would love to join a coven, she just can't at the moment. She should avoid being a wiccan for that matter? its still her faith and her beliefs. I agree, if you call yourself wiccan just because "its cool" or to rebel or whatever, it's an insult, but I don't think its an insult to take the name if you study it, truly believe it, actively practice it, and honestly want to be an active member in the religion. What about the people who join covens just to be cool? are they more wiccan than our op? I think beliefs speak a lot more in terms of genuine religious affiliation. Yeah pretty much, exactly. Cunningham doesn't even consider himself a Wiccan anymore, I'm not sure about Buckland though. Unless their coven is able to trace lineage back to Gardner, no they cannot honestly consider themselves Wiccans. She is a Solitary/Neo-Pagan/Seeker, which there is nothing wrong with. I'm a Neo-Pagan leaning towards Asatru. Once she finds a coven, she still really isn't a Wiccan because she has a train for a bit before she can be fully initiated to the 1st degree. Trust me, no one will join a Coven to be cool, most, if not the majority, will know what to look for to avoid those 'fluffy bunnies' as they are called. I know her faith and her beliefs are in the right place, but being Wiccan isn't a right, its a path that can take years if not your whole life to complete. BTW Seeket took 20+ years before he found the correct Coven for him and even admitted that he was in a Coven that wasn't even a real Wiccan Coven. Even if you're 18/21, you may not be a true Wiccan until you are in your 30s or 40s. But if the path is for you and you can handle the idea of sexual rituals and possible intercourse with the High Priest/Priestess then you will take the time it takes to do it. But do not call yourself something you're not until you earn the right. That would be like calling myself an Catholic Cardinal without going through all the training that it takes to be one.
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:27 pm
Alaois ~Ichigo_Pie~ Alaois ~Ichigo_Pie~ Alaois Don't get wrong, Wicca probably has changed slightly in the last 60 years, but Tradition Wicca is still the correct Wicca, others may claim the title but British Tradition Wicca is the true form. People like Buckland, Cunningham, and Mama Silver -curses that name- have really messed up Wicca for those that follow Traditional Wicca. Silver Ravenwolf has really tainted Wicca and turned it into a "rebellion" religion for teens of today, because you are told to lie to mommy and daddy and tell them you're an 'angel' -sighs- But I cannot change your opinion, regardless what I've said, all I can do is still refer you to the Amber and Jet Mailing list and the Wicca FAQ. And For the Record, I'm a male, my avatar makes it hard to guess my sex. but why should they be separated from the religion just because they don't practice in a coven, even when they still do everything else the same? it is still the same religion if they hold the same beliefs. That's how I see these things. I just know lots of females with male avatars and lots of males with female so I didn't want to say that you were male just because a male avatar is what I see. I understand that confusion and the questioning of it, but you cannot learn everything about Wicca without being initiated. Solitary Witchcraft and Wicca aren't the same thing either, depending on the circumstances anyway. Solitary Witches will never learn the true name of the Lord and Lady and if they were once initiated, they still cannot tell anyone the name because of the Oath they make once they become initiated. Buckland is considered an oathbreaker because of things he has said and done, as well as using Ango-Saxton beliefs within his form of Witchcraft (Saxo-Wicca). Silver Ravenwolf was never a Wiccan and is probably one of the worst people to use as a base for your turning to "Wicca.' Scott Cunningham was a 1st degree initiate before he left and formed his own version of Witchcraft (originally called Neo-Wicca, but now Standing Stone solitary Witchcraft). Don't get me wrong, being a Solitary Witch isn't a bad thing and I never tried to say it was, but unless you've been initiated into a coven who's lineage is traced back to Gardner, you shouldn't really take that name Wicca. It's an insult to many followers of British Traditional Wiccans. So if a witch of a coven leaves that coven for whatever reason - logical or not, they should no longer be classified as a wiccan even if that's what they believe? And what about my high priest friend and high priestess friend who have both been in covens, and lead many covens? Are they no longer wiccan just because they are not actively participating in a coven at the moment?? the OP even said she would love to join a coven, she just can't at the moment. She should avoid being a wiccan for that matter? its still her faith and her beliefs. I agree, if you call yourself wiccan just because "its cool" or to rebel or whatever, it's an insult, but I don't think its an insult to take the name if you study it, truly believe it, actively practice it, and honestly want to be an active member in the religion. What about the people who join covens just to be cool? are they more wiccan than our op? I think beliefs speak a lot more in terms of genuine religious affiliation. Yeah pretty much, exactly. Cunningham doesn't even consider himself a Wiccan anymore, I'm not sure about Buckland though. Unless their coven is able to trace lineage back to Gardner, no they cannot honestly consider themselves Wiccans. She is a Solitary/Neo-Pagan/Seeker, which there is nothing wrong with. I'm a Neo-Pagan leaning towards Asatru. Once she finds a coven, she still really isn't a Wiccan because she has a train for a bit before she can be fully initiated to the 1st degree. Trust me, no one will join a Coven to be cool, most, if not the majority, will know what to look for to avoid those 'fluffy bunnies' as they are called. I know her faith and her beliefs are in the right place, but being Wiccan isn't a right, its a path that can take years if not your whole life to complete. BTW Seeket took 20+ years before he found the correct Coven for him and even admitted that he was in a Coven that wasn't even a real Wiccan Coven. Even if you're 18/21, you may not be a true Wiccan until you are in your 30s or 40s. But if the path is for you and you can handle the idea of sexual rituals and possible intercourse with the High Priest/Priestess then you will take the time it takes to do it. But do not call yourself something you're not until you earn the right. That would be like calling myself an Catholic Cardinal without going through all the training that it takes to be one. I think that that is utterly awful of "true" wicca. To turn away people with a proper faith just because of one little detail. Especially if the individual's mentor is a member of a coven and can teach them everything (aside from group magick and what have you - I honestly don't know what a coven does together besides joining power) I don't even believe in magick. so it may be wrong of me to even pose my arguments on this. Maybe my disbelief in magick is the reason I dismiss the need of a coven. But she is legally considered wiccan regardless of what true wiccans think. and I think she deserves more claims than those of a coven that I went to school with. They were moronic and shouting bullcrap about "I have magick and can make this happen, you'll regret bullying me DX" they were a "coven" though I don't know if they were a "true" coven because I don't know if their high priest was actually of a real coven before theirs. but regardless, the op deserves to consider herself wiccan if she follows the religion
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:37 pm
~Ichigo_Pie~ Alaois ~Ichigo_Pie~ Alaois ~Ichigo_Pie~ Alaois Don't get wrong, Wicca probably has changed slightly in the last 60 years, but Tradition Wicca is still the correct Wicca, others may claim the title but British Tradition Wicca is the true form. People like Buckland, Cunningham, and Mama Silver -curses that name- have really messed up Wicca for those that follow Traditional Wicca. Silver Ravenwolf has really tainted Wicca and turned it into a "rebellion" religion for teens of today, because you are told to lie to mommy and daddy and tell them you're an 'angel' -sighs- But I cannot change your opinion, regardless what I've said, all I can do is still refer you to the Amber and Jet Mailing list and the Wicca FAQ. And For the Record, I'm a male, my avatar makes it hard to guess my sex. but why should they be separated from the religion just because they don't practice in a coven, even when they still do everything else the same? it is still the same religion if they hold the same beliefs. That's how I see these things. I just know lots of females with male avatars and lots of males with female so I didn't want to say that you were male just because a male avatar is what I see. I understand that confusion and the questioning of it, but you cannot learn everything about Wicca without being initiated. Solitary Witchcraft and Wicca aren't the same thing either, depending on the circumstances anyway. Solitary Witches will never learn the true name of the Lord and Lady and if they were once initiated, they still cannot tell anyone the name because of the Oath they make once they become initiated. Buckland is considered an oathbreaker because of things he has said and done, as well as using Ango-Saxton beliefs within his form of Witchcraft (Saxo-Wicca). Silver Ravenwolf was never a Wiccan and is probably one of the worst people to use as a base for your turning to "Wicca.' Scott Cunningham was a 1st degree initiate before he left and formed his own version of Witchcraft (originally called Neo-Wicca, but now Standing Stone solitary Witchcraft). Don't get me wrong, being a Solitary Witch isn't a bad thing and I never tried to say it was, but unless you've been initiated into a coven who's lineage is traced back to Gardner, you shouldn't really take that name Wicca. It's an insult to many followers of British Traditional Wiccans. So if a witch of a coven leaves that coven for whatever reason - logical or not, they should no longer be classified as a wiccan even if that's what they believe? And what about my high priest friend and high priestess friend who have both been in covens, and lead many covens? Are they no longer wiccan just because they are not actively participating in a coven at the moment?? the OP even said she would love to join a coven, she just can't at the moment. She should avoid being a wiccan for that matter? its still her faith and her beliefs. I agree, if you call yourself wiccan just because "its cool" or to rebel or whatever, it's an insult, but I don't think its an insult to take the name if you study it, truly believe it, actively practice it, and honestly want to be an active member in the religion. What about the people who join covens just to be cool? are they more wiccan than our op? I think beliefs speak a lot more in terms of genuine religious affiliation. Yeah pretty much, exactly. Cunningham doesn't even consider himself a Wiccan anymore, I'm not sure about Buckland though. Unless their coven is able to trace lineage back to Gardner, no they cannot honestly consider themselves Wiccans. She is a Solitary/Neo-Pagan/Seeker, which there is nothing wrong with. I'm a Neo-Pagan leaning towards Asatru. Once she finds a coven, she still really isn't a Wiccan because she has a train for a bit before she can be fully initiated to the 1st degree. Trust me, no one will join a Coven to be cool, most, if not the majority, will know what to look for to avoid those 'fluffy bunnies' as they are called. I know her faith and her beliefs are in the right place, but being Wiccan isn't a right, its a path that can take years if not your whole life to complete. BTW Seeket took 20+ years before he found the correct Coven for him and even admitted that he was in a Coven that wasn't even a real Wiccan Coven. Even if you're 18/21, you may not be a true Wiccan until you are in your 30s or 40s. But if the path is for you and you can handle the idea of sexual rituals and possible intercourse with the High Priest/Priestess then you will take the time it takes to do it. But do not call yourself something you're not until you earn the right. That would be like calling myself an Catholic Cardinal without going through all the training that it takes to be one. I think that that is utterly awful of "true" wicca. To turn away people with a proper faith just because of one little detail. Especially if the individual's mentor is a member of a coven and can teach them everything (aside from group magick and what have you - I honestly don't know what a coven does together besides joining power) I don't even believe in magick. so it may be wrong of me to even pose my arguments on this. Maybe my disbelief in magick is the reason I dismiss the need of a coven. But she is legally considered wiccan regardless of what true wiccans think. and I think she deserves more claims than those of a coven that I went to school with. They were moronic and shouting bullcrap about "I have magick and can make this happen, you'll regret bullying me DX" they were a "coven" though I don't know if they were a "true" coven because I don't know if their high priest was actually of a real coven before theirs. but regardless, the op deserves to consider herself wiccan if she follows the religion I will at least give the OP credit, she isn't one of those 13 or 14 year old people claiming to be "Wiccan" because it will piss off mommy or daddy or because they can do "magick" like harry potter stare You would not believe how often I hear that one. Do not get me wrong, The OP has the making of being a good Wiccan, but try to work on learning more and more. Wicca is all about seeking knowledge and they always continue to seek that knowledge. And yes, maybe your disbelief in 'magick' makes it hard to believe in the need of a coven. Wicca isn't for everyone and no one knows what Wicca does during their get together because of the Oathbound portion of their belief. I am not gonna bash the OP anymore, she realizes she isn't fully Wiccan and knows that she isn't...but I will stay to educate the others, specially 'fluffy bunnies." The primary definition of a Fluffy Bunny is one who refuses to learn, refuses to think, and refuses to consider the possibility that they could possibly ever be wrong. Generally, they find one book, author or website and follow it as if it were the holy word, frequently denouncing anything that disagrees with it as obviously false. Fluffy Bunnies rarely get past the defense of "Because [insert favorite author here] says so." Sometimes they don't even get that far, responding to any and all criticism with something like, "You're just trying to persecute me!" ...that last part sounds like Illusion actually confused But please, do not think I want to bash anyone, I don't, I just want to educate, hell I learned something new today myself. That some of the sexual rituals can involve intercourse and not just the kissing of the genitals or skyclad (ritualistic nudity)
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:36 pm
I won't say that there isn't a possibility I'm wrong.
Hell, for all denotative meaning, I'll concede and let you have the argument;
however, for connotative meaning, I'll have to stand firm. In belief she is a wiccan. Maybe not full practice, but I will still consider her wiccan due to the fact her beliefs are firmly rooted in wicca.
one day she'll join a coven - or she is planning to (i think. I assume because she says she wants to but can't right now.)
I do not believe a coven determines ones religious affiliation... then again, as we have both agreed on, my belief in magick is a little skeptic. and that may be influencing my opinion.
and I think I'm using "magick" properly ne? I didn't know if your " ' " marks were meant as sarcasm? I was told that "magick" is coined to religious affiliation to keep it from being construed with magic like harry potter or magic shows.
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:08 pm
Magick in the sense of using the k is more closely related with Crowley's belief not what Wiccans or witches do.
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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:36 pm
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:41 am
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:18 am
============================
♪ ♫ӃiȶȶӮ iș Ⱦɐʅʞiɳɠ!♪ ♫ Okey listen up please cause Im tired of all this false information on wicca WE ARE NOT FLUFFY BUNNIES! We respect every religion and stay to our own. Their is so much damn information out their battering us and here you believe it being a WITCH I that who dont follow the 2 fold law or the wiccan reed! Second yes their are alot of rituals and covens that do believe that sex is a great source of energy buuuuuut! Being in a coven is by choice! You can still practice solitary and be considered a wiccan. Ugh alll this crap on you have to be a certian age is also false my grandmothers are shaman and voodoo priests. O.o Boom Im studding wicca Legion and tradition is if you in a COVEN! Go on and say im wronge blah blah blah but reading just on link that is XD dun dun daaaaa more powerful of all the damn information is out that is not a true wiccan we are mostly scolars if you look at it taking up all information teaching ourselves and then passing it on. Then buddy O.o have you studied for a year and a day to even consider yourself a wiccan and call that you true calling. Oh yeah your a neopegan -.- i put the infesses on PEGAN! THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THE OLD WAYS! So go back and go to another site than that one or rather yet read a BOOK! ♪ ♫ϛhє's ʠoηє....ɟoɹ иow!♪ ♫
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