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No, no, no...You're missing my point.

If religion didn't exist in the first place, your father's atheist friend wouldn't have a problem with your father and they would still be friends.

It doesn't matter who's being close-minded, what matters is why.


So why were his possessions holding him back and ours don't?

That still seems awfully unfair to me.


Wow...Could you just reread what you wrote there?

"It's a law of nature (created by God) and incentive to follow Him. It might not seem right, but we aren't God, and we can't compare our sense of justice and morality to His."

Now, just look at that quote. You wrote that. Now, I want you to slowly slip from your mind any sense of religious prejudice. Forget whatever argumentative nature you have, forget your loyalty to God for just a second, just forget it.

Now, read that quote and answer this simple question: Does burning people for eternity for a simple mistake, probably unintentional, seem moral to you?

Now, I know what you're thinking. Your religious mind is kicking in again and giving me the response you just gave me,"It might not seem right, but we aren't God, and we can't compare our sense of justice and morality to His."

I want you to look at this situation clearly, from an objective perspective, and tell me honestly whether this seems moral or not. Do not assume that because it comes from a higher power that it must be automatically moral, even if we don't understand how. Just think about your personal beliefs and values, and give me a straight answer. Does God (From your mere mortal perspective) seem moral?

If your answer is still "yes", then you as a Christian are a hypocrite. You shouldn't hate your enemies.

Hell is a scare tactic. A truly benevolent God would never do that.

No. A punishment from a benevolent source would imply that it eventually ended, and that you learned something from it. Something like a time out.

Hell is not a punishment from a benevolent source. It's eternal, and doesn't offer a second chance to correct your little mistake.

It's an obvious scare tactic made up by humans, not God. It's an idea that was pretty much copied from the Greeks. (Almost word for word)

See that "from a benevolent source" there? Yeah, might want to read the whole post before you get all defensive.

Well, as the definition implies benevolence would mean that you have a disposition towards doing good. Now, punishing one who has unintentionally committed a crime could be considered justice and, in turn, good, as long as the criminal learned from their mistake and was given the chance to redeem themself. This is where the line between discipline and abuse is drawn. Discipline can inflict temporary, non-scarring pain to help the one being penalized understand that what they did was wrong. You can discipline someone and still be benevolent. However, inflicting permanent and constant pain for one simple error is abuse, and is in no way benevolent. I'm sure you can agree with that.

If not, I fear for your children. (If you have any or if you are going to have any, that is)

You're right, you could reverse it so everyone has the same religion.

But issue is still that of religion.


How do you know what's hindeirng you and what isn't?

That guy needed Jesus to tell him what was hindering him. Otherwise, he had followed every single commandment. He said so himself. Jesus imposed an extra commandment on that guy specifically?


I have come to the conclusion that you are beyond help.

You yourself have admitted that your beliefs are illogical and immoral, yet you still believe them.

Your beliefs should be based on your own personal conclusions. It should be based on what you believe. If you believe it is immoral, then you should trust yourself that it is immoral. Other people may disagree with you, but they're your beliefs and it's up to you to determine them.

I know you won't listen to me. I know that no matter what I say, your religious mind will kick in and defy reason and your own sense of morality. You've been enslaved by it. Your mind is probably too fragile at this point to survive without it.

Even if I somehow do plant some sort of seed in your mind, you'll go and pray for guidance or something and end up "persevering" and completely ignoring whatever it is I have to say.

It's a shame. You seem like an intelligent person. I'm just trying to liberate you. It feels so good...

Well, have fun worshipping and kissing your admittedly evil deity's a** to keep from burning. That's not the life for me, or any free-thinking human for that matter.

It's implied by His benevolence.


So being an atheist, I'm not burning?

That depends; Are you an objectivist?

You don't think killing is moral, so it's beside the point.


I know you're not. That's my point. Talking to you about religion is like talking to a brainwashed zombie, which is basically what I'm doing.


No. Your beliefs (currently) are based on a single book. They are not your own beliefs. Even you think your own beliefs are immoral. You should leave it.

And trust me, atheism feels at least ten times better.


You've said yourself that His actions are immoral. He is quite evil.

Logic. If you have good intentions for something, you don't burn it for eternity. rolleyes


Well, in all honesty I don't know if He exists...