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 Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:28 pm
If I take drugs and I get addicted, I have the right to enter rehab and become unaddicted (as unaddicted as an addict can ever be, anyway).
If I have sex and get pregnant, I have the right to enter a clinic and become unpregnant.
Sorry, the "zomg! Then drugs would have to be legalized!" s**t doesn't work. Being pregnant is not the same as taking a drug. You are not choosing to become pregnant, you are choosing to have sex. Just like you are not choosing to become addicted, you just chose to take drugs. Should be pass legislation that says that once addicted, the government has the right to FORCE you to remain addicted by keeping the drug inside your body? No, because that would be silly.
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:47 pm
I am incredibly tired of people going "there are millions of people desperately wanting children! Why are you so cruel that you won't give them the chance to adopt a precious child and fulfill their wish? etc.etc."
Well, if there are so many fricken people looking to adopt children, then why the hell are there still hundreds of thousands of children up in the adoption system today? What's keeping all those people from adopting- and why would they somehow make that exception for my child?
Honestly.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:38 am
I saw a girl one time in an abortion thread, spouting off things like 'OHMIGAWDZ, I CANNOT HAEV CHILDRENS!!111 I WOULD GIVE ANYTHING TO HAVE A BABIE, BUT YOU KEEL TEM AND GET RID OF DEM, I H8 YU PRO CHOYCERZ!!!!!!!1!!!!'
And yes, the spelling is exaggerated, but in all honesty, she was typing in simlarity.
But back to what this girl said.
Yes, I felt bad for her. Who wouldn't? There is nothing worse than wanting something you can't have. But I really can't see how this has anything to do with what she was arguing about.
neutral
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:35 am
Kukushka "If the woman just has the baby, she can have her family and friends help her take care of it. Her school/job will provide day care for her and the government will make sure that she can make rent and put food on the table. And who knows, maybe once he sees his baby, the father will want to marry her and they can be a perfectly happy white Christian family like God wanted them to be!" Sorry... what? But free day care encourages laziness!
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:04 am
*Stabs Silent Scream and Malachi to HELL*
I also hate the arguments that come from Myspace Bulletins. To be specific, the "Dear Mommy" letter and the long line of "abortion" pictures. It's all either fake, misrepresented, or both. Hell, one of the pictures features a limb from a fetal PIG.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:24 am
Toga! Toga! *Stabs Silent Scream and Malachi to HELL* I also hate the arguments that come from Myspace Bulletins. To be specific, the "Dear Mommy" letter and the long line of "abortion" pictures. It's all either fake, misrepresented, or both. Hell, one of the pictures features a limb from a fetal PIG. Just because all the pictures are either cut up miscarriages, fetal pig limbs, made of plastic, or really really really old, doesn't mean they are propaganda and lies. ... Oh wait. Yes it does.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:16 am
WatersMoon110 Toga! Toga! *Stabs Silent Scream and Malachi to HELL* I also hate the arguments that come from Myspace Bulletins. To be specific, the "Dear Mommy" letter and the long line of "abortion" pictures. It's all either fake, misrepresented, or both. Hell, one of the pictures features a limb from a fetal PIG. Just because all the pictures are either cut up miscarriages, fetal pig limbs, made of plastic, or really really really old, doesn't mean they are propaganda and lies. ... Oh wait. Yes it does. I saw a youtube video someone made about abstaining from sex, because otherwise you'll get pregnant, have an abortion and feel bad for the rest of your life!!?!! *sigh* Anyway, someone replied with something along the lines of "all those who support abortion, doesn't this video pull at your heartstrings just a little? If it doesn't then you have no emotions, and don't care about life, so you can suck my a**!" I hate that s**t. Suddenly because I support choice, I don't care about life at all, and I have no emotions. Sorry if I know how to think in a rational way and consider the benefits of women and society, and don't cry into my hanky.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:28 am
And it's only the woman who should feel bad, because she's the one who denied the rights to her body to a fetus, whereas the man merely put it there and of course has no moral responsibility for what happens to that which pro-lifers like to call his child.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:43 am
GreenSouthpaw And it's only the woman who should feel bad, because she's the one who denied the rights to her body to a fetus, whereas the man merely put it there and of course has no moral responsibility for what happens to that which pro-lifers like to call his child. They can tar and feather him, lable him irrisponsible and take a portion of his paycheque. However, if he were to find another woman, get her pregnant and stay with her, they'd think he turned over a new leaf and pat him on the back. If it was a woman and she walked out on her kids, they'd call her heartless, devoid of emotions and probably wouldn't trust her with another child. Or, if she had an abortion: "But you had an ABORSHUN! Why do you want kids now? You'll probably just drown your baby in the bathtub!"
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:05 pm
Chachamaru-kun I saw a girl one time in an abortion thread, spouting off things like 'OHMIGAWDZ, I CANNOT HAEV CHILDRENS!!111 I WOULD GIVE ANYTHING TO HAVE A BABIE, BUT YOU KEEL TEM AND GET RID OF DEM, I H8 YU PRO CHOYCERZ!!!!!!!1!!!!' Not to mention that my function in society is not to be a breeder for people who, like her, cannot have children of their own. I am an individual and under no obligation to give ANY part of my body or my life just so that a complete stranger can have the "pweshuss wittle bebe" she always wanted. I feel bad for her. Sure. But to force other people to go through something just because you cannot is selfish to an unbelieveable extreme.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:10 pm
Kukushka Chachamaru-kun I saw a girl one time in an abortion thread, spouting off things like 'OHMIGAWDZ, I CANNOT HAEV CHILDRENS!!111 I WOULD GIVE ANYTHING TO HAVE A BABIE, BUT YOU KEEL TEM AND GET RID OF DEM, I H8 YU PRO CHOYCERZ!!!!!!!1!!!!' Not to mention that my function in society is not to be a breeder for people who, like her, cannot have children of their own. I am an individual and under no obligation to give ANY part of my body or my life just so that a complete stranger can have the "pweshuss wittle bebe" she always wanted. I feel bad for her. Sure. But to force other people to go through something just because you cannot is selfish to an unbelieveable extreme. I actually did tell her she was selfish, and she probably used the 'OMG, PRO CHOICERS R SOOOO SELFISH! THEY ONLI CARE ABOUT THEMSELVEZ, LAWL1LL1L!!!! HOW CAN NE1 H8 A LEETLE BABIE, YOU HEATRLES FEYND!!!!1!!!!'
So.
So much for THAT.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:18 pm
Okay, okay.
Another one I hate.
the 'life begins at conception' idea.
No. Just no.
Okay, think about it.
What do all life forms- meaning you and me- have in common?
Yes, that is right, breathing.
If something isn't breathing, its dead, or is not alive, right.
Do fetuses breathe?
......No, they don't.
Life =/= conception.
Life = breath.
Think about it this way too.
Okay. The nine months a fetus is actually in the mother is when its being put together, right. Yes. Being put together.
Imagine a doll you're making. It has an arm missing, maybe no eyes, because you aren't done with making it yet.
.........Is it a doll?
No, because its not finished.
Is a fetus a human?
......No, because its not finished becoming a human.
neutral
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:49 pm
Chachamaru-kun Okay, okay.
Another one I hate.
the 'life begins at conception' idea.
No. Just no.
Okay, think about it.
What do all life forms- meaning you and me- have in common?
Yes, that is right, breathing.
If something isn't breathing, its dead, or is not alive, right.
Do fetuses breathe?
......No, they don't.
Life =/= conception.
Life = breath.
Think about it this way too.
Okay. The nine months a fetus is actually in the mother is when its being put together, right. Yes. Being put together.
Imagine a doll you're making. It has an arm missing, maybe no eyes, because you aren't done with making it yet.
.........Is it a doll?
No, because its not finished.
Is a fetus a human?
......No, because its not finished becoming a human.
neutral Fetuses receive oxygen through the umbilical cord I believe, as their lungs haven't fully formed and thus don't function. So fetuses ARE alive, and they ARE human (they've got human DNA), they just aren't individuals. A fetus is not a person, or a human, but it is human. What else would you get from a human egg cell and a human sperm cell, which are both alive? I also dislike the "life at conception" argument, because while it's true, arguing that just because something is alive it should stay alive is stupid. Bacteria are alive, but we kill them everyday. Trees are alive, but we cut them down. That wasp you smushed? That was alive too. Simply being alive isn't enough of a reason to stay alive.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:15 pm
This is an argument that I like. Not just because I came up with it (of course, I'm sure others have thought of it before me, I just got it from myself), but because I think it makes tons of sense.
A fetus is unique, yes? It isn't, per se, part of the woman's body because if it were it would have all of her DNA.
The fetus is foreign matter in her body. If it weren't for magical thingies that suppress her immune system enough to keep it from killing the fetus, she would miscarry or something.
Foreign matter, when not wanted or welcome, should be expelled from the body by any means necessary. You don't want a piercing anymore? Take out the jewelery. Don't want the fetus? Take it out. It doesn't matter if it is living, dead, or inanimate. Don't want it? It's not yours. It's not a part of you. Get rid of it.
This, I feel, nicely disposes of the "it's not her body, the fetus is unique so it's the fetus' body!" type argument.
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:33 pm
Chachamaru-kun Okay, okay. Another one I hate. the 'life begins at conception' idea. No. Just no. Okay, think about it. What do all life forms- meaning you and me- have in common? Yes, that is right, breathing. If something isn't breathing, its dead, or is not alive, right. Do fetuses breathe? ......No, they don't. Life =/= conception. Life = breath. Scientifically wrong. There are criteria for a living being and a fetus (or rather, the cells that make up a fetus) fit every single one. It needs to be able to metabolize (which it does, that's why the mother is needed to provide nutrients), it needs to reproduce (the cells divide and thus reproduce), and I think there are some others, but it's been a very long time since I took an interest in biology. Breathing is not one of the criteria, though. A plant does not breathe in the same sense that you or I do, but I am sure we can all agree that a plant is, in fact, alive. As for the doll idea, that depends. Does a child care if the doll isn't finished and misses a few limbs or eyes? Not usually. As a child, I played with things far simpler as though they were dolls. All it takes is an imagination. While your argument is valid to an extent, it requires a certain mode of thinking to follow and therefore wouldn't hold up much in a debate.
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