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ScionoftheBlade

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:41 pm


Lavyne
ScionoftheBlade
oh em jyu
ScionoftheBlade
oh em jyu
ScionoftheBlade
@Jyu- you can accept what I say or pretend I didn't say them. Know that pretending the illusions are real doesn't make them so
How about I don't accept what you say, or accept it as wrong or misguided? :3333
what reasons could you bring yo say I'm misguided or wrong?
See: all above posts by me, Kiashana, Lavyne.
I read them, even agreed to most of them. Besides my sanity and knowledge are 2 different things

Nobody questioned you're sanity. As I recall, it was you who questioned mine. What's being called into question is your reasoning.
Fine then point to something and ask on it directly. I was raised FFB so I apologise for the lack of general knowledge. But I was taught enough reasoning through Gemarah that I can admit being wrong if it is so.
I know this sounds stupid but I prefer to be wrong.
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 4:22 pm


Here are some variation contradictions in the Tanakh through the New Testament, Compliments of a person (SN: sgallen) from another forum who left about a year before I did. (beliefnet)

To those of you who are strictly old school, please feel free to skip any "new testament" references. There will be contradictions which are purely old testament. 3nodding

Quote:
Should we kill?

Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.

Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every
man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)

Is Jealousy a sin?

Ex 20:5 "...for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..." (see also Ex 34:14, Deut 4:24, Josh
24:19, and Nah 1:2)

Gal 5:19-20 "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are...jealousy..." (See also 2 Cor
12:20)

Should we tell lies?

Ex. 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.(Prov. 12:22; Rev. 21: cool

1 Kings 22:23 The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord
hath spoken evil concerning thee. (II Thess. 2:11; Josh. 2:4-6 with James 2:25)

Should we steal?

Ex. 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. (Lev. 19:13)

Ex. 3:22. And ye shall spoil the Egyptians. (Ex. 12:35-36; Luke 19:29-33)

Shall we keep the Sabbath?

Ex. 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (Ex. 31:15; Num. 15:32,36)

Is. 1:13 The new moons and the Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is
iniquity. (John 5:16; Matt. 12:1-5)

Shall we make Graven images?

Ex. 20:4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in
heaven...earth...water. (Lev. 26:1)

EX. 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.

Are we "saved" through works?

Eph. 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith...not of works. (Rom. 3:20, 28; Gal. 2:16)


James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.(Matt. 19:16-
21)

Should good works be seen?

Matt. 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works. (I Peter 2:12)

Matt. 6:1-4 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them...that thine alms
may be in secret. (Matt. 23:5)

Should we own slaves?

Lev. 25:45-46 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall
ye buy...and they shall be your posession...they shall be your bondmen forever. (Gen. 9:25; Ex.
21:2,7; Joel 3:8; Luke 12:47; Col. 3:22)

Is. 58:6 Undo the heavy burdens...break every yoke. (Matt. 23:10)

Does God change his mind?

Mal. 3:6. For I am the Lord; I change not. Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither

the son of man, that he should repent. (Ezek. 24:14; James 1:17)

Ex. 32:14. And the Lord repented of the evil which he had thought to do unto his people. (Gen.
6:6; Jonah 3:10; Sam. 2:30-31; II Kings 20:1-6; Num. 16:20-35)

Are we punished for our parent's sins?

Ex. 20:5 For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generations. (Ex. 34:7)
Ezek. 18:20 The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.

Is God good or evil?

Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)

Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek.
20:25)

Is God Peaceable?

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)

Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a
sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)

Was Jesus trustworthy?

John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Shall we call people names?

Matt. 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.

Matt. 23:17 (Jesus said) Ye fools and blind.

Has anyone seen God?

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at anytime. (Ex 33:20; Tim. 6:16; John 6:46; I John 4:12)

Gen. 32:30 For I have seen god face to face. (Ex. 33:11, 23; Is. 6:1; Job 42:5)

How many gods are there?

Deut. 6:4 The Lord or God is one Lord.

Gen. 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image.(Gen. 3:22; I John 5:7)

Are we all sinners?

Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned. (Rom. 3:10; Psa.14;3)

Job 1:1 There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright. (Gen.
7:1; Luke 1:5-6)

When was Jesus crucified?

Mark 15:22 and it was the third hour, and they crucified him.

John 19:14-15 And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they
cried out...crucify him!"

Shall we obey the law?

I Peter 2:13 Submit yourself to every ordinance of man.

Acts 5:29 We ought to obey God rather than men.

Michael Noire


ScionoftheBlade

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:45 pm


Michael Noire
Here are some variation contradictions in the Tanakh through the New Testament, Compliments of a person (SN: sgallen) from another forum who left about a year before I did. (beliefnet)

To those of you who are strictly old school, please feel free to skip any "new testament" references. There will be contradictions which are purely old testament. 3nodding
thank you being as jews believe the new testament was not handed down from god
Quote:
Should we kill?

Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.

Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every
man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36) context, context, context. sadly I am nopt aware of the context of your quotes but know enough to come up with a few myself. Though shall not kill clearly can't be all encompassing otherwise how can we punish those who have comitted sins worthy of death? its a general commandment and the exceptions are listed. We are even required (yes Required not optional) to kill an Amelak on sight (in modern times we can't be certain who is amalek and therefor not charged with this task)

Is Jealousy a sin?

Ex 20:5 "...for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..." (see also Ex 34:14, Deut 4:24, Josh
24:19, and Nah 1:2)
I'm not even gonna go there, the comandment isn't reffering to simple desires we can't control. Most taanaim in the gemarah agree the sin is only if there is action because of it
Should we tell lies?

Ex. 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.(Prov. 12:22; Rev. 21: cool

1 Kings 22:23 The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord
hath spoken evil concerning thee. (II Thess. 2:11; Josh. 2:4-6 with James 2:25)
context please
Should we steal?

Ex. 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. (Lev. 19:13)

Ex. 3:22. And ye shall spoil the Egyptians. (Ex. 12:35-36; Luke 19:29-33)
This may sound stupid but there are 2 answers. 1 it was payment for our years of work. 2 there is no issur in stealing from a non jew

Shall we keep the Sabbath?

Ex. 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (Ex. 31:15; Num. 15:32,36)

Is. 1:13 The new moons and the Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is
iniquity. (John 5:16; Matt. 12:1-5)
neither of the old testament, disregard
Shall we make Graven images?

Ex. 20:4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in
heaven...earth...water. (Lev. 26:1)

EX. 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.
Sorry I once heard an answer but it was about 3 hours long so I forgot it, not a simple matter

Should we own slaves?

Lev. 25:45-46 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall
ye buy...and they shall be your posession...they shall be your bondmen forever. (Gen. 9:25; Ex.
21:2,7; Joel 3:8; Luke 12:47; Col. 3:22)

Is. 58:6 Undo the heavy burdens...break every yoke. (Matt. 23:10)
Halachically there is nothing wrong with slaves. I believe Mishpotim deals with the pesukim regerding male and female slaves as well as non jewish slaves
Does God change his mind?

Mal. 3:6. For I am the Lord; I change not. Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither

the son of man, that he should repent. (Ezek. 24:14; James 1:17)

Ex. 32:14. And the Lord repented of the evil which he had thought to do unto his people. (Gen.
6:6; Jonah 3:10; Sam. 2:30-31; II Kings 20:1-6; Num. 16:20-35)
I would need serious context on the old testament stuff.
Are we punished for our parent's sins?

Ex. 20:5 For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generations. (Ex. 34:7)
Ezek. 18:20 The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
Not directly punished unless you do the same sin (exception of golden calf)
Is God good or evil?

Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)

Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek.
20:25)
Evil? evil is a human concept. God is Emes.
Is God Peaceable?

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)

Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a
sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)
Human concept again. But god created the world for us to eventually live in a time of joy and peace so I'll say yes
Was Jesus trustworthy?

John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Jesus was an Apikores
Shall we call people names?

Matt. 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.

Matt. 23:17 (Jesus said) Ye fools and blind.
Old testament only please
Has anyone seen God?

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at anytime. (Ex 33:20; Tim. 6:16; John 6:46; I John 4:12)

Gen. 32:30 For I have seen god face to face. (Ex. 33:11, 23; Is. 6:1; Job 42:5)
Mosess saw "Gods back" but no one can see god and live
How many gods are there?

Deut. 6:4 The Lord or God is one Lord.

Gen. 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image.(Gen. 3:22; I John 5:7)
God was talking to the angels. When the bible was first translated this was one of the things the 70 Rabbos all knew to change independantly
Are we all sinners?

Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned. (Rom. 3:10; Psa.14;3)

Job 1:1 There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright. (Gen.
7:1; Luke 1:5-6)
there have been few people who neer sinned. Heck Moses even sinned
When was Jesus crucified?

Mark 15:22 and it was the third hour, and they crucified him.

John 19:14-15 And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they
cried out...crucify him!"

Shall we obey the law?

I Peter 2:13 Submit yourself to every ordinance of man.

Acts 5:29 We ought to obey God rather than men.
Jews and nonjews must obey local law assuming it doesn't counter gods commands
I responded in red
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:02 pm


I dunnno if we're talking Leviticus here...

LOL
Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.


Don't respond seriously if ya don't wanna. I just found it amusing xp

And I know some of the beliefs pertain to Christians not thinking somethings a sin but we do, but like I said... just found it funny sweatdrop

phobia2001


Zaierah

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 6:57 am


[ Message temporarily off-line ]
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 8:16 am


Zaierah

Uber long post...
Various New Testament references...
That's just a dispensational difference between the old and new covenants. Though Christians infer applications from the Law, the commands given to the Jews under the Mosaic Law were specific to them. Paul's writings in Romans and Galatians clarify some of these distinctions. The Old Testament is like a shadow of the New. And there are differences between shadows and reality. But such differences are not considered contradictions.
More uber long posting with New Testament references...

Zaierah, welcome to the Jewish Gaians Guild. In case you didn't realize, we're Jewish. We couldn't care less about your New Testament. We don't follow the New Testament at all. Don't make arguements in here refering to the New Testament. Don't insult our holy books- I mean really, a shadow of the New Testament?? What are you thinking?
A quote from Jyu's Guild TOS on the front page:
Quote:

We have a very open acceptance policy, but please, try not to turn this into a religious battleground. Don't be all "OMGOMG JESUS IS SOOO WONDERFUL" or "OMG HEY GUYS THE MESSIAH HAS ALREADY COME AND YOU SHOULD ACCEPT JESUS AS UR LORD AND SAVIOR." This is a place for Jewishness and Jewishdom, unapologetically. We don't plan on prosthelytizing to you, so please respect us (and our faith) by returning such in kind.

Please stop breaking the TOS. Just because Jyu's not on this week (she's in my city! DC!) doesn't mean we can't find a way to kick you out; I do have her cell phone number, I can get ahold of her.

Kiashana
Crew


SodapopZ

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 6:26 pm


Attempting to get back on topic...

How do most Reform people feel about transgendered people and Judaism? Because of obvious conflicts I avoid the orthodoxy at all cost ninja
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 6:50 pm


Hmm The reconstuctionist movement is really open to different things, i dont' know about transgender people, but me I'm all there for transgender people.

YvetteEmilieDupont


Zaierah

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:18 pm


Quote:
Please stop breaking the TOS. Just because Jyu's not on this week (she's in my city! DC!) doesn't mean we can't find a way to kick you out; I do have her cell phone number, I can get ahold of her.


oh dont worry about that..no need to fear the truth i wont be back.. heart

but i honestly apoligise for breaking the rules i wasnt aware
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:48 pm


SodapopZ
Attempting to get back on topic...

How do most Reform people feel about transgendered people and Judaism? Because of obvious conflicts I avoid the orthodoxy at all cost ninja

Well, I'm reform and I'm all for it, but as I mentioned earlier, being bi, I'm somewhat biased when it comes to accepting different sexualities.

Lavyne


SodapopZ

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:54 pm


I have heard Reform synagogues being more accepting (there's one that I want to go to, bwehehe) though I have no idea about reconstructionist either.
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:28 pm


SodapopZ
I have heard Reform synagogues being more accepting (there's one that I want to go to, bwehehe) though I have no idea about reconstructionist either.
My Reform synagogue has quite a few Gay and Lesbian couples. 3nodding

Our Rabbi doesn't seem to care what sexuality someone is, as long as they want to join the congregation in prayer. He's big on the accepting thing, probably why he's also part of the community's Interfaith Council.

Amitzah

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SodapopZ

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 9:34 pm


but being trans is sort of irregardless of who I sleep with... I was thinking that maybe it conflicts with that no-crossdressing rule.
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 5:17 pm


SodapopZ
but being trans is sort of irregardless of who I sleep with... I was thinking that maybe it conflicts with that no-crossdressing rule.

Except are transgendered people really cross-dressing? After all, they identify as the gender that they dress as most of the time.

Kiashana
Crew


runaway ballista

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 5:27 pm


Gay all the way!

I personally belong to a Reform congregation, and as far as I know, Rabbi Rosenberg is pretty accepting of homosexuals. I don't know if he ever officiates gay ceremonies, but both my mother and I would be thrilled to hear it if he did.
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