Welcome to Gaia! ::

Hmmm.... I've heard of that before, but I thought it was an onion article! eek Uh-oh, no wonder the movement's losing momentum..

As for me, I believe in coexisting between human and enviroment, animals and enviroment. Humans are part of the kingdom animalia.... Thus I will not oust wild animals from their home.

Honostly, i wouldn't mind living out in th emiddle of no where in a nice log cabbin. I would like some small bits of technology. I have to have my internet, running water, heatign and cooling. but thats it. no tv.

I don't like meat! Unless if it's soy. Oh, don't worry, I'm not offended at all, just in case you were worried about that. I'm pro-choice in the matter that I don't give a damn whether I can control what you do or not... But that would be downright cool, I mean.

AMAZING le CHAT! Super mind power! THE PUPPETEER!

I'd use you to steal chocolate.

Hmm... apparantly I can answer this unregistered.

I wouldn't normally post in a pro-life guild (that's for sure) but I feel like I've got to defend myself.

Firstly, I don't consider a fetus, human or otherwise, to be equal to an already living, breathing, independent animal. (human or otherwise.) An animal feels pain when killed, a fetus does not.[1] I don't eat meat because an animal has thoughts and feelings, and I think it's wrong to cause that animal harm for no good reason.[2] And that's still only one reason I'm vegetarian!

I'm also a vegetarian for environmental reasons. When we eat meat, we create a demand for more animals to be bred and killed.[3] All those animals are a HUGE drain on our resources and create tons of waste. We're talking massive environmental damage. And, just as an overpopulation of farm animals is bad news... so is an overpopulation of people. No, I don't see people or animals just as faceless numbers. Far from it. They are living, feeling, creatures. And I beleive that each of them deserves a life where they have the basic resources they need to live happily. By not controlling the population, We're basically screwing the next generation. Honestly, I would rather see every child born a child that will be loved, cared for, and given a decent life. I'm for quality over quantity. I don't think we can keep living the way we do much longer and not expect to seriously screw things up for our grandchildren. MY way of caring about the unborn is by caring about and for the environment.

Another reason I have is, well, a bit frank. Frankly, an animal is not attached to my body, feeding off of my nutrients without my consent. Therefore, in my opinion, killing a fetus is self defense, and killing a cow for meat that you don't need is murder.[4] A woman is allowed to kill a rapist that uses her body against her will for a few minutes, so I think she should be entitled to abort a fetus that uses her body for nine months. Nobody forces me to give blood to save lives, nobody forces me to donate organs to save lives, so I don't think anyone is entitled to live inside my body without permission. The animal in a slaughterhouse is not threatening to take away my career, my education, or my personal freedom. In many cases, a fetus is. Even though it doesn't mean to and has no will. You can't say that allowing a fetus to feed off a woman without her consent is giving it "equal rights."

I'm pro-choice and vegetarian because I believe in compassion. I don't equate abortion with murder. I don't think that an embryo is more important than an independant organism JUST because that embryo happens to be human. I beleive that there is a difference between things that are alive, living, thinking and feeling, and things that are just alive or soon will be alive.

And being feminist[5] pro-choice[6], I support your right to choose NOT to have an abortion, if you want. I support your right to beleive that a fetus is alive and has value. I support your right to express that beleif.

HOWEVER, When somebody tries to take away that choice, I won't stand for it. That's the only reason I dislike pro-lifers and call them anti-choice. Because many of you would make it illegal for me to have an abortion, or would put restrictions on my right. I also have problems with a lot of the reasoning behind your opinion[7], with some of the ways you spread your message, and I don't tolerate those. [8] I'm pretty pacifistic for the most part, but I will stand up and fight for MY right to life when somebody wants to compromise it.

So... I hope you understand my reasons for being vegetarian and pro-choice, and why the two are not at odds.

(And about vegans... I think they just think it's wrong for humans to use and enslave animals for their will. But I HAVE met pro-life vegans who wouldn't even kill a parasitic insect, so...)

[1]Source: (Yeah, it's in pro-choice guild. But come on, at least they made an entire library of logic to back up their claims. Give us some credit.) http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=3716053
[2]Eating it isn't a good reason. I do just fine without eating meat. I'm not saying everyone else needs to stop, I'm just saying that in this society, we [3]Think you're helping to keep those numbers down by eating meat? Don't kid yourself. They just breed more to keep up with the demand for meat you cause by eating them.
[4]See sig.
[5]Feminist: A person (male or female) who beleive in equality for men and women.
[6]Not "pro-abortion", because I think forcing an abortion on someone is just as wrong as not allowing them an abortion, and not "anti-life" for obvious reasons.
[7] Thinking women need to be "protected" and can't make choices, thinking sex is immoral unless in a certain context, wanting to punish the woman, and, in SOME, but not ALL cases, just beleiving what you were told without researching or questioning.
[8] Taking advantage of vulnerable young women, purposely misinforming people, calling us names, various forms of misogyny, legally imposing your morality on others, and using guilt and graphic pictures to sway people. (Although MANY vegetarians are guilty of those last two. And I don't approve of those tactics, even if they DO make people stop eating meat or at least question it.)

God, I hope you're joking!

See my post about the FETUS not being capable of feeling pain.

And you bet your a** those animals feel pain. They have nerves. They have brains. They think and feel. They kick and scream and cry and s**t themselves and die in agony.

I REAALY tried to avoid personal attacks, but you are either deeply misinformed in biology or just a disgusting hypocrite.

When I see people like this, it reaffirms my deep suspicions that a lot of pro-lifers really are all about forcing their sexual standards on everyone else, and ruining the lives of any woman who dares disobey.

But you know, now that you've POSTED here, you're being infected. My views on sexuality are slowly going to confine you, because my task is to make sure the only reason people have sex is to make babies! Not only that, I'd like to implant mind control devices in women so they can't make their own choices anymore. They will become my robots and I will choose everything for them, because I'm evil like that. If you support abortion being legal, then yes, you are pro-abortion, sorry. If you support abortion being legal, than in the case of abortion, you are anti-life just as I am anti-choice. Again, I'm sorry if this is an inconvenience to you, but when it comes down to it, you support choice over life. You're hardly one to talk about calling people names, considering you come into our guild and accuse us of misogyny and using guilt and graphic pictures to sway people (go on, look at how many of us post pictures of aborted fetuses and go, ZOMG POOR BABEH!). I'm glad to know that you, like myself and many of my friends in here, are a feminist. I'm happy for you that your morals are legally enforced at the moment, but trying to keep them that way is just as bad as us trying to get ours legally enforced.

Also...

It depends on where you get your meat. Some slaughterhouses are cruel, some places are quite humane about killing. Just like abortionists, eh? When I see people like you, it reaffirms my deep suspicions that not everyone can actually listen to another point of view and instead shut their minds off and spout accusations without putting much thought into it.

Depend son the slaughter house. Some don't care, others actualy use quick painless methods. Most are hard blows to the head using an air-pressureised hammer that liquifie the brain when they hit, the animal feel no pain. If they do, its minimal at most.