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 Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:28 pm
I wouldn't say that America is more violent. However, it is likely just as violent. Founding the original idea of a "democracy" (I say that in quotes because America is actually a republic with democracy only at mostly municipal levels) does not mean you are always going to be the forerunner in freedom.
I'm not attacking America. I'm choosing to stay here right now, instead of going to Turkey for college. It's just that America is allowed to improve itself, and we're all fairly liberal, so we should think that there are a bunch of things that need change. I just have a more refined idea of foreign policy that looks at the past and sees trends.
Also, I totally get that I came right outta nowhere and started yelling at you people. MAH BAD.
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:16 pm
In all honesty, I blame religion. It clouds judgment and stops the progression of society. Look at the US as liberal as we are, we are still being held back by religion. Gays can't get married in most states and in some states like Florida, they can't even adopt, all in the name of religion. In the Middle East (and even in many Eastern European countries) women and gays don't have right in the name of religion.
I agree that no country is perfect and there's a lot that needs to be fixed. The first thing that needs to go is religion. >.< I ******** hate religion. It wouldn't be so bad if people weren't so damn passionate about it.
As far as foreign policy I'm a supporter of isolationism, until there's an immediate threat like N. Korea.
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:47 pm
Well I guess we'll have to disagree on religion, because people are by nature sick and corrupt. People do not care about one another, and most only care if there is either something personal or some sort of benefit. If Korea was an American ally, only wanting to bomb SK, I don't think anyone would care in America.
Anyways, I don't feel like discussing religion right now. You've probably thought about it enough to make your own decision, so whatever. Still, the difference between your way of life and religion is the belief in god. Believing in god isn't all that bad, is it? Aside from that, there are many different schools of thought that are varied, and not so many are objectionable. Essentially, don't confuse the faith with the follower. Saying that Muslims deny rights to women is discriminatory, because it's not Islam oppressing the women, it's a person's interpretation and how they react to that. Islam states that men must be respectful to women, that a mother is to be the most respected person, and that there are severe punishments specific to oppressing women.
But, just like you or I also do, many people pick and choose what they want to hear. Sometimes it is subconscious, other times it is not.
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:34 pm
As a german philosopher who's name I can't spell once said "He who fights with monsters, should look to it that he himself does not become a monster".
The trick is, you cannot fight with monsters and not become a monster. To fight is to become the monster you are fighting. There is no defense against this.
This applies even in internet debates. If we take a step back and look at what we're posting, we're posting the same thing, just from different sides. We're both the monster.
Now, away from abstract philosophical nonsense:
AHMET... I'll not deny that Bush was not a tyrant or a warlord. He should never have been allowed to stay in office, and his war should have provoked the same reaction from the UN that N. Korea's actions are doing now. The war in Iraq was unnecessary, and uncalled for, I'll not deny this.
Vaja... You're wrong about religion. Religion does not stagnate society nor does it cloud judgment. It's a tool or a medium. You can no more blame religion for clouding judgment than you can blame a sword for killing a man.
You can use the Bible to condemn homosexuals, or you can use it to allow them the same rights as other people. (and there are passages that mention this). Just because people use the Bible to justify it, doesn't mean that it's what makes them think it's wrong.
Also, your comment about America being liberal made me laugh out loud. America is as conservative as Western Nations come.
AHMET again... Yes, the heated debate here stays here.
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