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Carey was a very shallow Riddler, he was entertaining, but hardly the character that he was supposed to be (A lot of it had to do with the writing of course). However, he is not a perfect choice for it, he's an obvious choice, but there are better.

I doubt that non-diehard fans knew about Ras Al Ghul before the first flick, even Clayface is more mainstream than that.

Two-Face seemed to be more of a one man army in the movie and you actually kinda felt sorry for him.

Wow...that movie scores with me a whopping "Meh"!

I know I'm gonna get hate for this, but the first half was boring and convoluded, and Two-Face seemed to have a "Venom Factor" to him, meaning he was a character who was brought in at the middle to end of the movie who had all the potential to be a major villain and better developed in the next movie, but instead just draws out the movie longer than it needs to be and is killed off, unfortunately. Similar to Venom in Spider Man 3.

Also, what IS it with writers putting in two or three villains in one movie? It just gets complicated.

I did like Joker's character, but the problem with him is that he never really did anything Joker-ish. He did a lot of things that really just makes him a thug wearing face paint. The Joker is SO much smarter and so much more sinister than to just make people choose if they want to blow other people up. Plus there was no real final battle between Joker and Batman, which it seemed like the trailers were playing up to. But since Joker's not dead, perhaps they're saving it for the next movie.

One last thing: why is it that I can never tell what Batman is saying? Christian Bale works as Bruce, but when he speaks as Batman, it's impossible to hear what he's saying because his affected voice is really, really...terrible. I'm sure that conversation at the end between Gordon and Batman was super important, but I had no idea what he was saying and therefore didn't know what the conversation was about.

Yes, I'm nitpicking, and yes, it's probably just sheer disappointment from how built up it was from advertisement and hype, as well as how awesome Batman Begins was, but...definitely not happy with it.

Seeing it again Tuesday though (I didn't arrange it, my mom did), maybe some things I missed I can catch the second time.

Umm dude. Joker was pretty smart.

He let himself get caught switch Harvey and Rachel places seeing as Batman would save Rach instead of Harvey.

And plus in The Animated Series...Joker was never that smart. He's never suppose to be taken serious ever. That's why his name is the Joker, he is never ever been taken seriously ever.

There is a difference between Two-Face and Venom. Venom is prime villain of Spider-Man, Two-Face isn't. Joker is the prime villain of Batman. And also without Harvey going all nuts and actually letting him become Two-Face.

Venom was just there, he is Spider-Man's only villain that actually gave him problems. In the Animated Series, Brock or Venom, knew everything about Parker. In Spider-Man 3...It was...bleh. Besides Harvey (Two-Face) was already a villain against the mob.

You're nit-picking for no reason dude.

Oh he knew about it. That's why he lied when he said Rachel was in the Warehouse and Harvey was near the river.

He actually meant to get Rachel killed, so in order to ruin Harvey's life causing him to go insane.

Joker's pretty smart eh? : P

That's my problem. Why have him anyway? I don't mind him BECOMING Two-Face in the movie. But why did he have to do a whole bunch of stuff and then supposedly die AFTER he became two face? They could have said he escaped and that would have been that, wait for the next movie for him to REALLY do some bad s**t.

I understand why he had the voice, and I agree with it, but...why did it have to be so bad? I can barely tell what he's saying sometimes, and in the beginning when he was yelling back to the impostors as he was getting back in the car, it sounded bad and out of character for Batman.

They don't need a final fist fight. But they need a final moment of judgment, a deciding moment. Keep in mind, Joker is Batman's main enemy, and Joker is his slight superior in intellect. They're the perfect rivals, and everyone knows that. There needs to be a grand conflict of some sort. The way they showed it is that Joker gets caught, gets out, and gets caught again. Despite his smarts, he's not very good at eluding the law, now is he?

Batman Begins was a great movie simply because it did a lot of stuff I didn't expect. Scarecrow and Ra's Al Ghul are two villains that you wouldn't expect to see as main antagonists in a Batman movie, simply because they're not as well-known as Joker or Two-Face. Plus the whole concept with Henri Ducard was, while cliche, surprising to someone who's not too familiar with Ra's Al Ghul (namely me). I was thinking today, if I had remembered what Ra's Al Ghul had looked like, I probably could have placed Ducard as him from the beginning.

It basically did a great job of introducing Batman to a new audience.

Xera: He's extremely smart, he's extremely dangerous, he's extremely cruel. In the comic books he beat Robin to death with a crowbar. In the series he created a device that rewrote Tim Drake's DNA that changed him into a Mini-joker.

I'm not nitpicking for no reason, I'm not worrying about the fact that Two-Face and Venom are villains of different magnitudes, the point is that they're both villains who could have scored themselves places as main antagonists in the sequel to Dark Knight and Spider Man 4, but instead were crammed in there and drew the movie out, and taking away a lot of the characters' defining attributes. For example, Venom's bulging muscles and deep, nasty voice, as well as Two-Face's darkness and mysteriousness. Instead Two-Face seemed kinda like "WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER ANGRY, WE'RE GONNA KILL SOME SUMBITCHES!" In Venom's case especially, he just seemed kind of rushed.

Dude, I NEVER said Joker was dumb. In fact, he was AMAZINGLY smart in this one, but not in the way he was in his other incarnations. Here he was kind of put the puzzle together smart, in the other ones he was kind of schemy, homicidal, sadisctic smart.

Basically he's a very different Joker from what a lot of people are used to.

But he's no Jack Nicholson. razz

I don't understand why I can't base it off comic books, are we all forgetting that's where the Joker was created? That's who it should be based on. The Joker from the comics was very dark as well, he was trying to kill the entire Gotham City through germ warfare, and would sometimes brutally kill people close to Batman (Tim Drake anyone?). They can make him dark while sticking to the books.

I don't see them as misconceptions, they're simply my views and opinions, which everyone's entitled to.