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| Who did cloud like |
| Tifa |
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47% |
[ 118 ] |
| Aries |
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50% |
[ 125 ] |
| Yuffie |
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2% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 249 |
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 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:52 pm
Er...All I know it's not Yuffie...
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:27 pm
sapphirelazuli ......that actually made me cry..... I like the aeris fanart you made. Could i give you gold and be allowed to own a copy of that? would you maybe make me one of her and sephiroth together??? i'd love you forever and always and bless you with any pets you want from my pet shop. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:43 am
it was aeris lol.....the game pretty much pushed it in your face
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:07 am
About that AerisXCloud video... It was really sweet, though I'm not a fan of the pair for many particular reasons. It has nothing to do with my certain... *biterness* towards Aeris or anything like that. *possible KH2 spoilers ahead?*Cloud and Tifa is my belief. Especially the shock in KH2 to AerisXCloud lovers. Where Cloud kept ranting about finding his 'light'. Heh, I remember all the AerisXCloud lovers saying 'Aww, Aeris is definitely his light' and then, in the end, it turned out to be Tifa. I think Cloud and Tifa definitely have a stronger bond, Cloud did so much for Tifa, and she's done so much for him. They've also known eachother longer. I think Tifa and Aeris both understand him, and care very much about him--- and I both think they have a fair chance, I just believe that it's most definitely... TifaXCloud. The scene where Tifa leans up next to Cloud in a 'comforting' situation.. The way they sat under the stars as kids-- this is classic first love. *my opinon* -Yes, I am aware that KH2 messes a lot of the FF plots up, making it not a reliable source ><' Kay? Just saying.. why wasn't Aeris his light, hmm?-
Also, something that I suspect is that Aeris might have been 'attracted' to Cloud only because she saw Zack in him. Yes, I know later on she says this and that about really *knowing the real Cloud*, but Cloud STILL reminded her of Zack in the first place, and taking that in AC she's walking away WITH Zack is definitely hinting at something? The way she jokes about Cloud: "This one is too big to adopt", saying she's more of a figure that watches over him?
I also get the impression that it seems like Cloud loves Aeris when in fact, it is mistaken for his guilty feelings. He is constantly thinking of Aeris because he feels guilty about her. And, many fans of the CloudXAeris realationship mistake that for love. :/ Even if Aeris were living, I'd still say that Tifa would have more of a chance with Cloud.
Kay', I'm done. ^-^
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:39 am
LunarSong About that AerisXCloud video... It was really sweet, though I'm not a fan of the pair for many particular reasons. It has nothing to do with my certain... *biterness* towards Aeris or anything like that. *possible KH2 spoilers ahead?*Cloud and Tifa is my belief. Especially the shock in KH2 to AerisXCloud lovers. Where Cloud kept ranting about finding his 'light'. Heh, I remember all the AerisXCloud lovers saying 'Aww, Aeris is definitely his light' and then, in the end, it turned out to be Tifa. I think Cloud and Tifa definitely have a stronger bond, Cloud did so much for Tifa, and she's done so much for him. They've also known eachother longer. I think Tifa and Aeris both understand him, and care very much about him--- and I both think they have a fair chance, I just believe that it's most definitely... TifaXCloud. The scene where Tifa leans up next to Cloud in a 'comforting' situation.. The way they sat under the stars as kids-- this is classic first love. *my opinon* -Yes, I am aware that KH2 messes a lot of the FF plots up, making it not a reliable source ><' Kay? Just saying.. why wasn't Aeris his light, hmm?-
Also, something that I suspect is that Aeris might have been 'attracted' to Cloud only because she saw Zack in him. Yes, I know later on she says this and that about really *knowing the real Cloud*, but Cloud STILL reminded her of Zack in the first place, and taking that in AC she's walking away WITH Zack is definitely hinting at something? The way she jokes about Cloud: "This one is too big to adopt", saying she's more of a figure that watches over him?
I also get the impression that it seems like Cloud loves Aeris when in fact, it is mistaken for his guilty feelings. He is constantly thinking of Aeris because he feels guilty about her. And, many fans of the CloudXAeris realationship mistake that for love. :/ Even if Aeris were living, I'd still say that Tifa would have more of a chance with Cloud.
Kay', I'm done. ^-^ Thank you so much you have put it vary beautiful and eloquently. Also every CloudxAeris fan seems to forget that Cloud called her mother so yes Cloud dose love Aeris as a mother figure
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:35 am
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:14 pm
RanmaxHikaru LunarSong About that AerisXCloud video... It was really sweet, though I'm not a fan of the pair for many particular reasons. It has nothing to do with my certain... *biterness* towards Aeris or anything like that. *possible KH2 spoilers ahead?*Cloud and Tifa is my belief. Especially the shock in KH2 to AerisXCloud lovers. Where Cloud kept ranting about finding his 'light'. Heh, I remember all the AerisXCloud lovers saying 'Aww, Aeris is definitely his light' and then, in the end, it turned out to be Tifa. I think Cloud and Tifa definitely have a stronger bond, Cloud did so much for Tifa, and she's done so much for him. They've also known eachother longer. I think Tifa and Aeris both understand him, and care very much about him--- and I both think they have a fair chance, I just believe that it's most definitely... TifaXCloud. The scene where Tifa leans up next to Cloud in a 'comforting' situation.. The way they sat under the stars as kids-- this is classic first love. *my opinon* -Yes, I am aware that KH2 messes a lot of the FF plots up, making it not a reliable source ><' Kay? Just saying.. why wasn't Aeris his light, hmm?-
Also, something that I suspect is that Aeris might have been 'attracted' to Cloud only because she saw Zack in him. Yes, I know later on she says this and that about really *knowing the real Cloud*, but Cloud STILL reminded her of Zack in the first place, and taking that in AC she's walking away WITH Zack is definitely hinting at something? The way she jokes about Cloud: "This one is too big to adopt", saying she's more of a figure that watches over him?
I also get the impression that it seems like Cloud loves Aeris when in fact, it is mistaken for his guilty feelings. He is constantly thinking of Aeris because he feels guilty about her. And, many fans of the CloudXAeris realationship mistake that for love. :/ Even if Aeris were living, I'd still say that Tifa would have more of a chance with Cloud.
Kay', I'm done. ^-^ Thank you so much you have put it vary beautiful and eloquently. Also every CloudxAeris fan seems to forget that Cloud called her mother so yes Cloud dose love Aeris as a mother figure
Accepting Kingdom Hearts's events as canon would also mean accepting that Squall and the other Final Fantasy cast members (excluding those from Twilight Town and that tropical island) all come from the same world which was attacked by Heartless.
I do not recall Heartless playing a pivotal role, if any, in Final Fantasy VII or VIII, therefore I do not consider it to be canon to any of the Final Fantasy games.
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:58 pm
xxSoulsxx Er...All I know it's not Yuffie... God am I the only one here that will defend Yuffe? sad Like I said before if Cloud would have given the girl half a chance then maybe he would have goten to like her maybe even more then Aeris or Tifa.
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:10 pm
StrawberrieIceCream RanmaxHikaru LunarSong About that AerisXCloud video... It was really sweet, though I'm not a fan of the pair for many particular reasons. It has nothing to do with my certain... *biterness* towards Aeris or anything like that. *possible KH2 spoilers ahead?*Cloud and Tifa is my belief. Especially the shock in KH2 to AerisXCloud lovers. Where Cloud kept ranting about finding his 'light'. Heh, I remember all the AerisXCloud lovers saying 'Aww, Aeris is definitely his light' and then, in the end, it turned out to be Tifa. I think Cloud and Tifa definitely have a stronger bond, Cloud did so much for Tifa, and she's done so much for him. They've also known eachother longer. I think Tifa and Aeris both understand him, and care very much about him--- and I both think they have a fair chance, I just believe that it's most definitely... TifaXCloud. The scene where Tifa leans up next to Cloud in a 'comforting' situation.. The way they sat under the stars as kids-- this is classic first love. *my opinon* -Yes, I am aware that KH2 messes a lot of the FF plots up, making it not a reliable source ><' Kay? Just saying.. why wasn't Aeris his light, hmm?-
Also, something that I suspect is that Aeris might have been 'attracted' to Cloud only because she saw Zack in him. Yes, I know later on she says this and that about really *knowing the real Cloud*, but Cloud STILL reminded her of Zack in the first place, and taking that in AC she's walking away WITH Zack is definitely hinting at something? The way she jokes about Cloud: "This one is too big to adopt", saying she's more of a figure that watches over him?
I also get the impression that it seems like Cloud loves Aeris when in fact, it is mistaken for his guilty feelings. He is constantly thinking of Aeris because he feels guilty about her. And, many fans of the CloudXAeris realationship mistake that for love. :/ Even if Aeris were living, I'd still say that Tifa would have more of a chance with Cloud.
Kay', I'm done. ^-^ Thank you so much you have put it vary beautiful and eloquently. Also every CloudxAeris fan seems to forget that Cloud called her mother so yes Cloud dose love Aeris as a mother figure
Accepting Kingdom Hearts's events as canon would also mean accepting that Squall and the other Final Fantasy cast members (excluding those from Twilight Town and that tropical island) all come from the same world which was attacked by Heartless.
I do not recall Heartless playing a pivotal role, if any, in Final Fantasy VII or VIII, therefore I do not consider it to be canon to any of the Final Fantasy games.
Even if Kingdom Hearts was never made, I think that Cloud and Tifa STILL have much more evidence to back my belief of their realationship up with.
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:26 am
LunarSong StrawberrieIceCream RanmaxHikaru LunarSong About that AerisXCloud video... It was really sweet, though I'm not a fan of the pair for many particular reasons. It has nothing to do with my certain... *biterness* towards Aeris or anything like that. *possible KH2 spoilers ahead?*Cloud and Tifa is my belief. Especially the shock in KH2 to AerisXCloud lovers. Where Cloud kept ranting about finding his 'light'. Heh, I remember all the AerisXCloud lovers saying 'Aww, Aeris is definitely his light' and then, in the end, it turned out to be Tifa. I think Cloud and Tifa definitely have a stronger bond, Cloud did so much for Tifa, and she's done so much for him. They've also known eachother longer. I think Tifa and Aeris both understand him, and care very much about him--- and I both think they have a fair chance, I just believe that it's most definitely... TifaXCloud. The scene where Tifa leans up next to Cloud in a 'comforting' situation.. The way they sat under the stars as kids-- this is classic first love. *my opinon* -Yes, I am aware that KH2 messes a lot of the FF plots up, making it not a reliable source ><' Kay? Just saying.. why wasn't Aeris his light, hmm?-
Also, something that I suspect is that Aeris might have been 'attracted' to Cloud only because she saw Zack in him. Yes, I know later on she says this and that about really *knowing the real Cloud*, but Cloud STILL reminded her of Zack in the first place, and taking that in AC she's walking away WITH Zack is definitely hinting at something? The way she jokes about Cloud: "This one is too big to adopt", saying she's more of a figure that watches over him?
I also get the impression that it seems like Cloud loves Aeris when in fact, it is mistaken for his guilty feelings. He is constantly thinking of Aeris because he feels guilty about her. And, many fans of the CloudXAeris realationship mistake that for love. :/ Even if Aeris were living, I'd still say that Tifa would have more of a chance with Cloud.
Kay', I'm done. ^-^ Thank you so much you have put it vary beautiful and eloquently. Also every CloudxAeris fan seems to forget that Cloud called her mother so yes Cloud dose love Aeris as a mother figure
Accepting Kingdom Hearts's events as canon would also mean accepting that Squall and the other Final Fantasy cast members (excluding those from Twilight Town and that tropical island) all come from the same world which was attacked by Heartless.
I do not recall Heartless playing a pivotal role, if any, in Final Fantasy VII or VIII, therefore I do not consider it to be canon to any of the Final Fantasy games.
Even if Kingdom Hearts was never made, I think that Cloud and Tifa STILL have much more evidence to back my belief of their realationship up with.
Second of all, Tifa is not Cloud's light. In case you didn't play KH1, Aerith was shown to be Cloud's light. If Tifa was Cloud's light, she would have appeared in KH1 while he was actually searching for his light. Instead Cloud is shown to find Aerith in the end. And, in KH2, he no longer has his artifacts of darkness (the wing and mechanical arm). I attribute this to Cloud finding his light in KH1. If Tifa was Cloud's light, wouldn't he be happy to see her? Instead, Cloud ignores her to chase after Sephiroth, leaving her to fight alone. Not only that, but Cloud is shown to be, not only running from Tifa, but hiding from her as well. Why would Cloud, who was so desperate to find his light in the first game that he sold his soul, now be running from Tifa if she were his light? Simple- she isn't his light. If Tifa was Cloud's light, he would have accepted the light from her. Instead Cloud finds the light already contained within himself (which is probably thanks to Aerith and his being reunited with her previously). Cloud found his light when he was reunited with Aerith, hence he did not need Tifa's light. If Tifa was Cloud's light and was all that important to Cloud's story, she would have appeared on the official scans with Cloud and Sephiroth. Instead, Aerith was pictured standing next to Cloud. So, you had Cloud standing with his "darkness" (Sephiroth, dressed in his typical black) and his "light" (Aerith- now dressed in white, along with her signature red and pink). I mean, how the hell is Tifa anyone's light when she is running around dressed in black leather? 0_o
Tifa offers her light to Cloud. What they don't tell you is that Cloud is dubious about the whole thing and actually does not accept Tifa's light. He actually begins to glow from within. It is pretty obvious to me that Cloud has found his inner light, because it is gold in hue, not white like Tifa's. Plus, we never see anything transfer from Tifa to Cloud, since he never accepted her light to begin with. Just because Tifa offers her light to Cloud does not make her Cloud's light. Everyone in the world of KH has light and darkness in their hearts, even Cloud. This is Tifa's light she is offering him, referring to it as "my light", not "your light". It is not Cloud's light or she would have said "Let me give you your light" rather than "Let me give you my light". Cloud's entire sidequest is about him facing his darkness (Sephiroth) and finding his own inner light. When Cloud was leaving, Sora said to Aerith, "He'll be fine. I'm sure there's some light in him somewhere." They are talking about inner light, people, not a person who is his light. In case you didn't catch that in KH1, that person who is Cloud's light in a romantic sense is Aerith, much in the same way that Kairi is Sora's light and yet Sora also has his own inner light.
--
And here is the interview with Nojima they are clamoring about (thank you, Vilaeth, for translating this):
"This is Tifa's first appearance in Kingdom Hearts."
Nojima: "Tifa wasn't planned to appear at first. I was talking with Tetsu about what Cloud could be doing in Hollow Bastion, and we eventually moved towards him chasing after Sephiroth, but also being chased by something himself. So Cloud's really running from something but goes around pretending, saying that he's chasing Sephiroth.Then we decided to make it him running from the 'something warm' like what Tifa was after in FFVIIAC."
Now, I really don't get why any CloTi would be happy about this interview, but hell, they have pasted this quote everywhere. Helloo? Are you all completely ignorant, or what? Nojima just stated that Cloud is using chasing Sephiroth as an excuse because he is running from Tifa! I fail to see how the hell this is pro-CloTi! XD It says that Cloud is running from the "something warm" that is "what Tifa was after in FFVII:AC". And what was Tifa after in AC? She wanted a "real family". She wanted Cloud to settle down with her and the orphans and be a family with her. Unfortunately, Cloud wasn't interested in that before, he wasn't interested in that during AC, and he sure as hell wasn't interested in that after AC. So, since KH is a parallel world, logically, you would have to realize that Cloud still isn't interested in being forced to settle down or being in a romantic relationship with Tifa. Frankly, I think it is time she got a clue
--
And, just to hammer in the truth, here are my Top Reasons Why Tifa Isn't Cloud's Light and Aerith Is:
1. Tifa wasn't included in KH1, but Aerith sure was. That's right. Tifa was not included during the first game when Cloud's entire sidequest involved him searching for "someone" and trying to find the "light". Tifa wasn't there. She wasn't mentioned. Nada. In fact, Cloud's sidequest ended during the KH credits when he was shown reuniting with Aerith. If you follow this to its logical conclusion, then it means Cloud was searching for Aerith. She was that special someone. She is his light. It would have been really easy for the creators to throw in a cameo for Tifa and show Cloud reuniting with her in the credits instead of Aerith, but, guess what? They didn't want to. That should tell you something.
2. Tifa and Cloud are not shown to have any type of spiritual connection, but Cloud and Aerith are. First of all, Cloud and Aerith were portrayed in KH1 whose entire theme was about "connections". Second of all, in KH:FM, Aerith asked Sora if he'd seen a "spikey-haired guy" at the Colisseum. Aerith was an entire world away! And yet she still seemed to know where Cloud was? The only reason Cloud had trouble finding Aerith was because he "lost his way in the darkness" and "couldn't find the light" (*cough*Aerith*cough*). Also, at the end of KH2, Aerith is last shown sitting in the exact same place you last see Cloud fighting Sephiroth with a little smile on her face, waiting for Cloud to return. How did she know? She wasn't even there during the battle!
Now compare this with Tifa, who blundered around in town the whole damn time trying to find Cloud when he was right under her nose a few screens away. She was kicking walls, looking under desks... It was really pathetic considering Cloud was hanging around in the same town. Aerith knew where Cloud was when she was in a completely different world and yet Tifa can't find him when he is in the same town??? Guess who Cloud is connected with (it starts with an "A")?
3. Cloud is running and hiding from Tifa. So, in KH1 when Cloud was actually searching for his light, he is shown to be looking for, and being reunited with, Aerith. And, in KH2, when he is searching for his darkness, he is shown to be fleeing from Tifa. I fail to see anything romantic about Cloud running away from Tifa. Sorry, but, when I like someone, I don't run away from them. o_0 Cloud has never been portrayed as searching for Tifa. He never even mentioned her. And now he is trying to hide from her??? This should automatically kill the "Tifa=Cloud's light" theory for anyone with any common sense.
4. Cloud shows affection toward Aerith, but doesn't show any for Tifa. When Cloud was speaking with Aerith in KH2, his tone was soft and gentle. He was kind to Aerith, trying to reassure her that he would always come back, no matter how far away he went. Now compare this to how Cloud treats Tifa. He acts annoyed at her interference in his battle with Sephiroth, he refuses to accept her light, he leaves her alone to battle dozens of Heartless by herself, he runs away from her, he hides from her, etc, etc.... The only thing that convinced me that Cloud didn't flat-out hate Tifa was that he protected her from Sephiroth and Cloud would have done that for any of his friends. So Tifa is portrayed as a well-meaning, but pushy friend, and nothing more.
5. Tifa's light blinds Cloud/Tifa's light isn't suitable for Cloud. When Tifa first approached Cloud, her light blinded him. He covered his eyes and winced away from it as if it pained him. Light doesn't usually cause Cloud pain. When Hollow Bastion was transformed into Radiant Garden, that light didn't bother Cloud at all. This should make it pretty clear that Tifa's light is too bright for Cloud. It isn't suitable for him at all. Cloud's own inner light was a much more subdued gold, not the bright white of Tifa's light. This is just one more reason why Aerith, who is a stable being with both darkness and light, is more compatible with Cloud than Tifa.
6. Aerith has always been associated with light. This is another reason why I believe she is Cloud's light. When Aerith was first introduced to the world in FFVII, you see her face, bathed in light from the Lifestream. During the game, Aerith is shown in a vision to Cloud, running away into the light. On the altar where she died, Aerith was praying in a stream of white light. In the final FMV, Aerith reaches toward Cloud from a white light. And, at the very end, Aerith's smiling face was shown, once again, surrounded by the light of the Lifestream. Even in FFVII:AC, Aerith is associated with light. In every encounter with Aerith, the background is a bright white light. Aerith was the only spot of color and life in the movie. While everyone else was dressed in subdued blacks and grays, Aerith was there in her red and pink dress, surrounded by colorful flowers. In a gray world, Aerith's white light was a refreshing change. In KH1, Aerith was portrayed as being Cloud's light. And, in KH2, Aerith is the one to tell everyone that Hollow Bastion's original name was "Radiant Garden". After that, white shafts of light begin to rain down on the town. Not only that, but Aerith is now wearing white along with her signature red and pink.
So, when has Tifa been associated with light? When she blinded Cloud with her own light like a clumsy oaf in KH2. That's it. Like I said earlier, she is running around in black leather. If she were really intended to be Cloud's light, why not change her wardrobe a little, hmmm?
7. Aerith was shown with Cloud and Sephiroth on the official scans. That's right, Aerith was shown standing with Cloud and Sephiroth, not Tifa. So, since Cloud's darkness is being shown on the scan, doesn't it make sense that his light be there, too? And that would be Aerith. If it were Tifa, she would have been on the scans instead of Aerith. But, she wasn't.
--
Despite all of this overwhelming evidence, there are still people out there who don't believe that this game proves anything, because it was "unrelated to FFVII". On the contrary, Tetsuya Nomura (the director and character designer of KH, and the character designer for FFVII), had this to say about it:
"But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in FFVII might be answered."
So, yes, KH was very relevant to FFVII, especially to the relationship between Cloud and Aerith. It was stated as such by Nomura himself, which negates any claims that say otherwise. Nomura also stated that a ClAeris interpretation of the ending of KH can be made. Plus, in an interview with Yoshinori Kitase (the director and writer of FFVII, and the co-producer of KH), he stated: "I believe it would be fun to create another story with Aeris and Cloud in a 'gaiden' (side-story) game. But, for now it's more interesting for me to create new stories featuring new characters."
So, what of Tifa? It was originally intended that Tifa make an appearance in Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix. Some info on this from an interview with Nomura:
"In fact, back when we were working on KH:FM, some of the staff members wanted to have Tifa show up. They said 'Battling with Tifa would be fun, in a melee sense' and originally wanted to add both Sephiroth and Tifa (into KH:FM) but due to tight schedules we could only go with one character so we inserted Sephiroth into KH:FM. Because of that, we decided to let Tifa show up in this game [Kingdom Hearts 2]."
So, is there anything in here about Tifa being Cloud's light? Nope. Is there anything in here about Tifa being the one Cloud was searching for? Nope. More than likely, Tifa's role would have been similiar to her role in KH2. However, it is also possible, since they only mentioned "battling" in regards to Tifa, that she was merely to be another fighting opponent in the Colisseum. Regardless of what her role was, it doesn't change the fact that Cloud was still reunited with Aerith in the credits. It doesn't change the fact that Aerith is that "someone" Cloud was looking for and, logically, that must make her his "light".
I think that while you can say that FFVII was "left up to the interpretation of the player", it is pretty clear who the creators of Final Fantasy consider the true and intended couple of FFVII. When asked what he wanted to portray in KH, Nomura stated that he wanted to show that people were not physically connected and that, even when apart, people could still be connected. In other words, Nomura wanted to show a connection of the spiritual kind, a connection of the soul. He wanted to show that, even though people are apart, they can still be together. This is shown with Sora and Kairi in KH, and it was shown with Cloud and Aerith in FFVII (Cloud was able to feel Aerith's presence in the Lifestream after she was killed, Cloud was able to speak with Aerith in his dreams-- both are symbols of soul mates to the Japanese) and FFVII: AC (Cloud and Aerith were shown to have a very deep bond and it was confirmed by the creators (FFVII: AC -Reunion Files-) that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside Cloud).
--
In Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories Cloud and Aerith appeared in basically the same roles they had in Kingdom Hearts. But, in Cloud's game profile, we see a very familiar statement... "Cloud seeks the true memories he has lost. Were they memories of someone dear to him, or memories of his own hazy past?"
Sounds familiar? It sounds very much like Cait Sith's prediction in FFVII: "What you pursue will be yours. But you will lose something dear."
That "something dear", as we all know, was Aerith. So, since the only FFVII characters in KH, besides Cloud, were Aerith, Yuffie, Cid, and Sephiroth, that "someone dear to him" has to be Aerith. ^_^ And, no, there is no mention of Tifa ever being included in KH:CoM.
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:47 pm
LunarSong About that AerisXCloud video... It was really sweet, though I'm not a fan of the pair for many particular reasons. It has nothing to do with my certain... *biterness* towards Aeris or anything like that. *possible KH2 spoilers ahead?*Cloud and Tifa is my belief. Especially the shock in KH2 to AerisXCloud lovers. Where Cloud kept ranting about finding his 'light'. Heh, I remember all the AerisXCloud lovers saying 'Aww, Aeris is definitely his light' and then, in the end, it turned out to be Tifa. I think Cloud and Tifa definitely have a stronger bond, Cloud did so much for Tifa, and she's done so much for him. They've also known eachother longer. I think Tifa and Aeris both understand him, and care very much about him--- and I both think they have a fair chance, I just believe that it's most definitely... TifaXCloud. The scene where Tifa leans up next to Cloud in a 'comforting' situation.. The way they sat under the stars as kids-- this is classic first love. *my opinon* -Yes, I am aware that KH2 messes a lot of the FF plots up, making it not a reliable source ><' Kay? Just saying.. why wasn't Aeris his light, hmm?-
Also, something that I suspect is that Aeris might have been 'attracted' to Cloud only because she saw Zack in him. Yes, I know later on she says this and that about really *knowing the real Cloud*, but Cloud STILL reminded her of Zack in the first place, and taking that in AC she's walking away WITH Zack is definitely hinting at something? The way she jokes about Cloud: "This one is too big to adopt", saying she's more of a figure that watches over him?
I also get the impression that it seems like Cloud loves Aeris when in fact, it is mistaken for his guilty feelings. He is constantly thinking of Aeris because he feels guilty about her. And, many fans of the CloudXAeris realationship mistake that for love. :/ Even if Aeris were living, I'd still say that Tifa would have more of a chance with Cloud.
Kay', I'm done. ^-^ THNK U VERY MUCH!!!!!!!! biggrin who else doesnt see that cloud and tifa got a good connection? sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:41 pm
Aw, But wheres barret in the poll. wink
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:45 pm
it was sephiroth...heres a picture..taken from clouds camera.  sorry,wrong picture. 
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:31 pm
.[.pink.spider.]. LunarSong StrawberrieIceCream RanmaxHikaru LunarSong About that AerisXCloud video... It was really sweet, though I'm not a fan of the pair for many particular reasons. It has nothing to do with my certain... *biterness* towards Aeris or anything like that. *possible KH2 spoilers ahead?*Cloud and Tifa is my belief. Especially the shock in KH2 to AerisXCloud lovers. Where Cloud kept ranting about finding his 'light'. Heh, I remember all the AerisXCloud lovers saying 'Aww, Aeris is definitely his light' and then, in the end, it turned out to be Tifa. I think Cloud and Tifa definitely have a stronger bond, Cloud did so much for Tifa, and she's done so much for him. They've also known eachother longer. I think Tifa and Aeris both understand him, and care very much about him--- and I both think they have a fair chance, I just believe that it's most definitely... TifaXCloud. The scene where Tifa leans up next to Cloud in a 'comforting' situation.. The way they sat under the stars as kids-- this is classic first love. *my opinon* -Yes, I am aware that KH2 messes a lot of the FF plots up, making it not a reliable source ><' Kay? Just saying.. why wasn't Aeris his light, hmm?-
Also, something that I suspect is that Aeris might have been 'attracted' to Cloud only because she saw Zack in him. Yes, I know later on she says this and that about really *knowing the real Cloud*, but Cloud STILL reminded her of Zack in the first place, and taking that in AC she's walking away WITH Zack is definitely hinting at something? The way she jokes about Cloud: "This one is too big to adopt", saying she's more of a figure that watches over him?
I also get the impression that it seems like Cloud loves Aeris when in fact, it is mistaken for his guilty feelings. He is constantly thinking of Aeris because he feels guilty about her. And, many fans of the CloudXAeris realationship mistake that for love. :/ Even if Aeris were living, I'd still say that Tifa would have more of a chance with Cloud.
Kay', I'm done. ^-^ Thank you so much you have put it vary beautiful and eloquently. Also every CloudxAeris fan seems to forget that Cloud called her mother so yes Cloud dose love Aeris as a mother figure
Accepting Kingdom Hearts's events as canon would also mean accepting that Squall and the other Final Fantasy cast members (excluding those from Twilight Town and that tropical island) all come from the same world which was attacked by Heartless.
I do not recall Heartless playing a pivotal role, if any, in Final Fantasy VII or VIII, therefore I do not consider it to be canon to any of the Final Fantasy games.
Even if Kingdom Hearts was never made, I think that Cloud and Tifa STILL have much more evidence to back my belief of their realationship up with.
Second of all, Tifa is not Cloud's light. In case you didn't play KH1, Aerith was shown to be Cloud's light. If Tifa was Cloud's light, she would have appeared in KH1 while he was actually searching for his light. Instead Cloud is shown to find Aerith in the end. And, in KH2, he no longer has his artifacts of darkness (the wing and mechanical arm). I attribute this to Cloud finding his light in KH1. If Tifa was Cloud's light, wouldn't he be happy to see her? Instead, Cloud ignores her to chase after Sephiroth, leaving her to fight alone. Not only that, but Cloud is shown to be, not only running from Tifa, but hiding from her as well. Why would Cloud, who was so desperate to find his light in the first game that he sold his soul, now be running from Tifa if she were his light? Simple- she isn't his light. If Tifa was Cloud's light, he would have accepted the light from her. Instead Cloud finds the light already contained within himself (which is probably thanks to Aerith and his being reunited with her previously). Cloud found his light when he was reunited with Aerith, hence he did not need Tifa's light. If Tifa was Cloud's light and was all that important to Cloud's story, she would have appeared on the official scans with Cloud and Sephiroth. Instead, Aerith was pictured standing next to Cloud. So, you had Cloud standing with his "darkness" (Sephiroth, dressed in his typical black) and his "light" (Aerith- now dressed in white, along with her signature red and pink). I mean, how the hell is Tifa anyone's light when she is running around dressed in black leather? 0_o
Tifa offers her light to Cloud. What they don't tell you is that Cloud is dubious about the whole thing and actually does not accept Tifa's light. He actually begins to glow from within. It is pretty obvious to me that Cloud has found his inner light, because it is gold in hue, not white like Tifa's. Plus, we never see anything transfer from Tifa to Cloud, since he never accepted her light to begin with. Just because Tifa offers her light to Cloud does not make her Cloud's light. Everyone in the world of KH has light and darkness in their hearts, even Cloud. This is Tifa's light she is offering him, referring to it as "my light", not "your light". It is not Cloud's light or she would have said "Let me give you your light" rather than "Let me give you my light". Cloud's entire sidequest is about him facing his darkness (Sephiroth) and finding his own inner light. When Cloud was leaving, Sora said to Aerith, "He'll be fine. I'm sure there's some light in him somewhere." They are talking about inner light, people, not a person who is his light. In case you didn't catch that in KH1, that person who is Cloud's light in a romantic sense is Aerith, much in the same way that Kairi is Sora's light and yet Sora also has his own inner light.
--
And here is the interview with Nojima they are clamoring about (thank you, Vilaeth, for translating this):
"This is Tifa's first appearance in Kingdom Hearts."
Nojima: "Tifa wasn't planned to appear at first. I was talking with Tetsu about what Cloud could be doing in Hollow Bastion, and we eventually moved towards him chasing after Sephiroth, but also being chased by something himself. So Cloud's really running from something but goes around pretending, saying that he's chasing Sephiroth.Then we decided to make it him running from the 'something warm' like what Tifa was after in FFVIIAC."
Now, I really don't get why any CloTi would be happy about this interview, but hell, they have pasted this quote everywhere. Helloo? Are you all completely ignorant, or what? Nojima just stated that Cloud is using chasing Sephiroth as an excuse because he is running from Tifa! I fail to see how the hell this is pro-CloTi! XD It says that Cloud is running from the "something warm" that is "what Tifa was after in FFVII:AC". And what was Tifa after in AC? She wanted a "real family". She wanted Cloud to settle down with her and the orphans and be a family with her. Unfortunately, Cloud wasn't interested in that before, he wasn't interested in that during AC, and he sure as hell wasn't interested in that after AC. So, since KH is a parallel world, logically, you would have to realize that Cloud still isn't interested in being forced to settle down or being in a romantic relationship with Tifa. Frankly, I think it is time she got a clue
--
And, just to hammer in the truth, here are my Top Reasons Why Tifa Isn't Cloud's Light and Aerith Is:
1. Tifa wasn't included in KH1, but Aerith sure was. That's right. Tifa was not included during the first game when Cloud's entire sidequest involved him searching for "someone" and trying to find the "light". Tifa wasn't there. She wasn't mentioned. Nada. In fact, Cloud's sidequest ended during the KH credits when he was shown reuniting with Aerith. If you follow this to its logical conclusion, then it means Cloud was searching for Aerith. She was that special someone. She is his light. It would have been really easy for the creators to throw in a cameo for Tifa and show Cloud reuniting with her in the credits instead of Aerith, but, guess what? They didn't want to. That should tell you something.
2. Tifa and Cloud are not shown to have any type of spiritual connection, but Cloud and Aerith are. First of all, Cloud and Aerith were portrayed in KH1 whose entire theme was about "connections". Second of all, in KH:FM, Aerith asked Sora if he'd seen a "spikey-haired guy" at the Colisseum. Aerith was an entire world away! And yet she still seemed to know where Cloud was? The only reason Cloud had trouble finding Aerith was because he "lost his way in the darkness" and "couldn't find the light" (*cough*Aerith*cough*). Also, at the end of KH2, Aerith is last shown sitting in the exact same place you last see Cloud fighting Sephiroth with a little smile on her face, waiting for Cloud to return. How did she know? She wasn't even there during the battle!
Now compare this with Tifa, who blundered around in town the whole damn time trying to find Cloud when he was right under her nose a few screens away. She was kicking walls, looking under desks... It was really pathetic considering Cloud was hanging around in the same town. Aerith knew where Cloud was when she was in a completely different world and yet Tifa can't find him when he is in the same town??? Guess who Cloud is connected with (it starts with an "A")?
3. Cloud is running and hiding from Tifa. So, in KH1 when Cloud was actually searching for his light, he is shown to be looking for, and being reunited with, Aerith. And, in KH2, when he is searching for his darkness, he is shown to be fleeing from Tifa. I fail to see anything romantic about Cloud running away from Tifa. Sorry, but, when I like someone, I don't run away from them. o_0 Cloud has never been portrayed as searching for Tifa. He never even mentioned her. And now he is trying to hide from her??? This should automatically kill the "Tifa=Cloud's light" theory for anyone with any common sense.
4. Cloud shows affection toward Aerith, but doesn't show any for Tifa. When Cloud was speaking with Aerith in KH2, his tone was soft and gentle. He was kind to Aerith, trying to reassure her that he would always come back, no matter how far away he went. Now compare this to how Cloud treats Tifa. He acts annoyed at her interference in his battle with Sephiroth, he refuses to accept her light, he leaves her alone to battle dozens of Heartless by herself, he runs away from her, he hides from her, etc, etc.... The only thing that convinced me that Cloud didn't flat-out hate Tifa was that he protected her from Sephiroth and Cloud would have done that for any of his friends. So Tifa is portrayed as a well-meaning, but pushy friend, and nothing more.
5. Tifa's light blinds Cloud/Tifa's light isn't suitable for Cloud. When Tifa first approached Cloud, her light blinded him. He covered his eyes and winced away from it as if it pained him. Light doesn't usually cause Cloud pain. When Hollow Bastion was transformed into Radiant Garden, that light didn't bother Cloud at all. This should make it pretty clear that Tifa's light is too bright for Cloud. It isn't suitable for him at all. Cloud's own inner light was a much more subdued gold, not the bright white of Tifa's light. This is just one more reason why Aerith, who is a stable being with both darkness and light, is more compatible with Cloud than Tifa.
6. Aerith has always been associated with light. This is another reason why I believe she is Cloud's light. When Aerith was first introduced to the world in FFVII, you see her face, bathed in light from the Lifestream. During the game, Aerith is shown in a vision to Cloud, running away into the light. On the altar where she died, Aerith was praying in a stream of white light. In the final FMV, Aerith reaches toward Cloud from a white light. And, at the very end, Aerith's smiling face was shown, once again, surrounded by the light of the Lifestream. Even in FFVII:AC, Aerith is associated with light. In every encounter with Aerith, the background is a bright white light. Aerith was the only spot of color and life in the movie. While everyone else was dressed in subdued blacks and grays, Aerith was there in her red and pink dress, surrounded by colorful flowers. In a gray world, Aerith's white light was a refreshing change. In KH1, Aerith was portrayed as being Cloud's light. And, in KH2, Aerith is the one to tell everyone that Hollow Bastion's original name was "Radiant Garden". After that, white shafts of light begin to rain down on the town. Not only that, but Aerith is now wearing white along with her signature red and pink.
So, when has Tifa been associated with light? When she blinded Cloud with her own light like a clumsy oaf in KH2. That's it. Like I said earlier, she is running around in black leather. If she were really intended to be Cloud's light, why not change her wardrobe a little, hmmm?
7. Aerith was shown with Cloud and Sephiroth on the official scans. That's right, Aerith was shown standing with Cloud and Sephiroth, not Tifa. So, since Cloud's darkness is being shown on the scan, doesn't it make sense that his light be there, too? And that would be Aerith. If it were Tifa, she would have been on the scans instead of Aerith. But, she wasn't.
--
Despite all of this overwhelming evidence, there are still people out there who don't believe that this game proves anything, because it was "unrelated to FFVII". On the contrary, Tetsuya Nomura (the director and character designer of KH, and the character designer for FFVII), had this to say about it:
"But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in FFVII might be answered."
So, yes, KH was very relevant to FFVII, especially to the relationship between Cloud and Aerith. It was stated as such by Nomura himself, which negates any claims that say otherwise. Nomura also stated that a ClAeris interpretation of the ending of KH can be made. Plus, in an interview with Yoshinori Kitase (the director and writer of FFVII, and the co-producer of KH), he stated: "I believe it would be fun to create another story with Aeris and Cloud in a 'gaiden' (side-story) game. But, for now it's more interesting for me to create new stories featuring new characters."
So, what of Tifa? It was originally intended that Tifa make an appearance in Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix. Some info on this from an interview with Nomura:
"In fact, back when we were working on KH:FM, some of the staff members wanted to have Tifa show up. They said 'Battling with Tifa would be fun, in a melee sense' and originally wanted to add both Sephiroth and Tifa (into KH:FM) but due to tight schedules we could only go with one character so we inserted Sephiroth into KH:FM. Because of that, we decided to let Tifa show up in this game [Kingdom Hearts 2]."
So, is there anything in here about Tifa being Cloud's light? Nope. Is there anything in here about Tifa being the one Cloud was searching for? Nope. More than likely, Tifa's role would have been similiar to her role in KH2. However, it is also possible, since they only mentioned "battling" in regards to Tifa, that she was merely to be another fighting opponent in the Colisseum. Regardless of what her role was, it doesn't change the fact that Cloud was still reunited with Aerith in the credits. It doesn't change the fact that Aerith is that "someone" Cloud was looking for and, logically, that must make her his "light".
I think that while you can say that FFVII was "left up to the interpretation of the player", it is pretty clear who the creators of Final Fantasy consider the true and intended couple of FFVII. When asked what he wanted to portray in KH, Nomura stated that he wanted to show that people were not physically connected and that, even when apart, people could still be connected. In other words, Nomura wanted to show a connection of the spiritual kind, a connection of the soul. He wanted to show that, even though people are apart, they can still be together. This is shown with Sora and Kairi in KH, and it was shown with Cloud and Aerith in FFVII (Cloud was able to feel Aerith's presence in the Lifestream after she was killed, Cloud was able to speak with Aerith in his dreams-- both are symbols of soul mates to the Japanese) and FFVII: AC (Cloud and Aerith were shown to have a very deep bond and it was confirmed by the creators (FFVII: AC -Reunion Files-) that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside Cloud).
--
In Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories Cloud and Aerith appeared in basically the same roles they had in Kingdom Hearts. But, in Cloud's game profile, we see a very familiar statement... "Cloud seeks the true memories he has lost. Were they memories of someone dear to him, or memories of his own hazy past?"
Sounds familiar? It sounds very much like Cait Sith's prediction in FFVII: "What you pursue will be yours. But you will lose something dear."
That "something dear", as we all know, was Aerith. So, since the only FFVII characters in KH, besides Cloud, were Aerith, Yuffie, Cid, and Sephiroth, that "someone dear to him" has to be Aerith. ^_^ And, no, there is no mention of Tifa ever being included in KH:CoM.
Well that’s a nice fantasy you got going there but first of all they changed Clouds aperients because it’s the same outfit he has in AC and has nothing to do with his light. And if you didn’t notes all of the FF characters had their AC outfits on. Second you have no evidence or proof that Aeris was Cloud’s light. None of the creators have ever said that Aeris was Clouds light. And honestly because Aeris stares at Cloud for 5 seconds after the rolling credits that means that she is his light. Please. If she was his all so important then don’t you think that SE would have made a bigger seen involving the two not to mention that if Aeris was his light then why was the seen in the rolling credits and not a part of the game? I also can’t believe you would use something as stupid as Cait Sith's inaccurate and mostly wrong predictions as proof of Cloud and Aeris. Cait Sith: "This isn't good. I can't say it." Cait Sith: "Poor Tifa." Aerith: "No! Tell me!" Aerith: "I promise I won't get mad!" Cait Sith: "Is that so? Then I'll tell you." Cait Sith: "Looks good. You are perfect for each other!" Cait Sith: "Looks good. You are perfect for each other!" Cait Sith: "Aerith's star and Cloud's star! A great future!" Cait Sith's predictions, as gathered from previous experiences, can be neither true or relevant. It would seem that this one is false, too, as Aerith's death nullifies any possibility of her and Cloud having "a great future" together. So if his predictions were so false then why would you even think about using them as proof for KH FM? Almost everything you have written here is nothing but your opinion on the events that happened in KH1 and KH2. Your interpretation’s of cretin events in the games do not count as Cloud and Aeris proof. Also you over exaggerate Cloud and Tifa’s relationship way too much. First you make it sound like Tifa was forcing Cloud to remember their promises during FF7. Then you say that Cloud talked nicer to Aeris then he did to Tifa then you go as far to say that Cloud was annoyed with her. You really make her out to seem like a pretty bad person that Cloud wants nothing to do with. Now if you don’t like Tifa or think she’s boring then that’s fine but don’t exaggerate situations to suite your ideas. Did it ever accrue to you that maybe Cloud didn’t want Tifa to find him because he didn’t want her to get involved with Sephiroth. Maybe if Cloud knew that Tifa was his light he wouldn’t have been hiding. I bet you never thought of that because of your Cleris tunnel vision. To be completely honest Cloud talked the same way to both Aeris and Tifa. As far as the interview with Nojima you forgot to add this one Nomura Interview in KHII UltimaniaQ. On what kind of basis did you choose the FF characters?A. In a way, we selected characters that are on demand. We considered from both fans and the staff's opinions and it all ends with just characters that are highly on demand. Q. And Tifa from FFVII showed up.A. In fact, back when we were working on KH:FM, some of the staff members wanted to have Tifa show up. They said "Battling with Tifa would be fun, in a melee sense" and originally wanted to add both Sephiroth and Tifa (into KH:FM) but due to tight schedules, we could only go with one character so we inserted Sephiroth into KH:FM. Because of that, we decided to let Tifa show up in this game. When we were recording the voices for KHII, coincidentally they were also doing the recording for FFVII:AC so somehow we end up doing "Today we record FFVII:AC, tomorrow KHII"... (laugh) The voices were recorded in the same flow so I'm glad about that. Q. Speaking of Tifa, there's an event where she talked to Cloud after beating Sephiroth.A. In Nojima-san's scenario, it explained Cloud and Tifa's connection more in-depth but I deleted it away. I thought it would be more interesting to let the gamers think about it. For example, "If Cloud's darkness is Sephiroth, then Tifa is light"; in that sense you can take it that Tifa isn't really human. The reason Tifa doesn't talk to anyone else besides Sora and co. may be because she doesn't exist as a human. Of course, I also presented her in a way that she could also be a resident of Hollow Bastion, so I think you can feely think for yourself about her. There it is by the man himself. Tifa is the light NOT Aeris and here is a link to the document it you don’t believe me http://maiki.livejournal.com/351209.html
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:53 pm
RanmaxHikaru .[.pink.spider.]. ok well now I must say that Tifa is not Cloud's light One thing the CloTis are making a big deal of is Tifa's appearance in KH2. Basically, all she does is show up looking for Cloud, trash a room, and chase after Cloud the whole time. Most of her lines consist of "Cloud!" and "Cloud, wait!" XD She appears during Cloud's first battle with Sephiroth. Cloud doesn't say a word to her. In fact, he looks extremely annoyed at the interruption. So, he simply abandons her to chase Sephiroth, leaving her with a small army of Heartless to fight off all by herself. Later, Tifa appears while Cloud is fighting Sephiroth again. This time she offers her light to Cloud. Cloud doesn't appear to understand what she means and a light appears from within himself. Cloud rises into the air and chases after Sephiroth, leaving Tifa behind yet again. Tifa then tells Sora and Co. that she will continue to search for Cloud
Second of all, Tifa is not Cloud's light. In case you didn't play KH1, Aerith was shown to be Cloud's light. If Tifa was Cloud's light, she would have appeared in KH1 while he was actually searching for his light. Instead Cloud is shown to find Aerith in the end. And, in KH2, he no longer has his artifacts of darkness (the wing and mechanical arm). I attribute this to Cloud finding his light in KH1. If Tifa was Cloud's light, wouldn't he be happy to see her? Instead, Cloud ignores her to chase after Sephiroth, leaving her to fight alone. Not only that, but Cloud is shown to be, not only running from Tifa, but hiding from her as well. Why would Cloud, who was so desperate to find his light in the first game that he sold his soul, now be running from Tifa if she were his light? Simple- she isn't his light. If Tifa was Cloud's light, he would have accepted the light from her. Instead Cloud finds the light already contained within himself (which is probably thanks to Aerith and his being reunited with her previously). Cloud found his light when he was reunited with Aerith, hence he did not need Tifa's light. If Tifa was Cloud's light and was all that important to Cloud's story, she would have appeared on the official scans with Cloud and Sephiroth. Instead, Aerith was pictured standing next to Cloud. So, you had Cloud standing with his "darkness" (Sephiroth, dressed in his typical black) and his "light" (Aerith- now dressed in white, along with her signature red and pink). I mean, how the hell is Tifa anyone's light when she is running around dressed in black leather? 0_o
Tifa offers her light to Cloud. What they don't tell you is that Cloud is dubious about the whole thing and actually does not accept Tifa's light. He actually begins to glow from within. It is pretty obvious to me that Cloud has found his inner light, because it is gold in hue, not white like Tifa's. Plus, we never see anything transfer from Tifa to Cloud, since he never accepted her light to begin with. Just because Tifa offers her light to Cloud does not make her Cloud's light. Everyone in the world of KH has light and darkness in their hearts, even Cloud. This is Tifa's light she is offering him, referring to it as "my light", not "your light". It is not Cloud's light or she would have said "Let me give you your light" rather than "Let me give you my light". Cloud's entire sidequest is about him facing his darkness (Sephiroth) and finding his own inner light. When Cloud was leaving, Sora said to Aerith, "He'll be fine. I'm sure there's some light in him somewhere." They are talking about inner light, people, not a person who is his light. In case you didn't catch that in KH1, that person who is Cloud's light in a romantic sense is Aerith, much in the same way that Kairi is Sora's light and yet Sora also has his own inner light.
--
And here is the interview with Nojima they are clamoring about (thank you, Vilaeth, for translating this):
"This is Tifa's first appearance in Kingdom Hearts."
Nojima: "Tifa wasn't planned to appear at first. I was talking with Tetsu about what Cloud could be doing in Hollow Bastion, and we eventually moved towards him chasing after Sephiroth, but also being chased by something himself. So Cloud's really running from something but goes around pretending, saying that he's chasing Sephiroth.Then we decided to make it him running from the 'something warm' like what Tifa was after in FFVIIAC."
Now, I really don't get why any CloTi would be happy about this interview, but hell, they have pasted this quote everywhere. Helloo? Are you all completely ignorant, or what? Nojima just stated that Cloud is using chasing Sephiroth as an excuse because he is running from Tifa! I fail to see how the hell this is pro-CloTi! XD It says that Cloud is running from the "something warm" that is "what Tifa was after in FFVII:AC". And what was Tifa after in AC? She wanted a "real family". She wanted Cloud to settle down with her and the orphans and be a family with her. Unfortunately, Cloud wasn't interested in that before, he wasn't interested in that during AC, and he sure as hell wasn't interested in that after AC. So, since KH is a parallel world, logically, you would have to realize that Cloud still isn't interested in being forced to settle down or being in a romantic relationship with Tifa. Frankly, I think it is time she got a clue
--
And, just to hammer in the truth, here are my Top Reasons Why Tifa Isn't Cloud's Light and Aerith Is:
1. Tifa wasn't included in KH1, but Aerith sure was. That's right. Tifa was not included during the first game when Cloud's entire sidequest involved him searching for "someone" and trying to find the "light". Tifa wasn't there. She wasn't mentioned. Nada. In fact, Cloud's sidequest ended during the KH credits when he was shown reuniting with Aerith. If you follow this to its logical conclusion, then it means Cloud was searching for Aerith. She was that special someone. She is his light. It would have been really easy for the creators to throw in a cameo for Tifa and show Cloud reuniting with her in the credits instead of Aerith, but, guess what? They didn't want to. That should tell you something.
2. Tifa and Cloud are not shown to have any type of spiritual connection, but Cloud and Aerith are. First of all, Cloud and Aerith were portrayed in KH1 whose entire theme was about "connections". Second of all, in KH:FM, Aerith asked Sora if he'd seen a "spikey-haired guy" at the Colisseum. Aerith was an entire world away! And yet she still seemed to know where Cloud was? The only reason Cloud had trouble finding Aerith was because he "lost his way in the darkness" and "couldn't find the light" (*cough*Aerith*cough*). Also, at the end of KH2, Aerith is last shown sitting in the exact same place you last see Cloud fighting Sephiroth with a little smile on her face, waiting for Cloud to return. How did she know? She wasn't even there during the battle!
Now compare this with Tifa, who blundered around in town the whole damn time trying to find Cloud when he was right under her nose a few screens away. She was kicking walls, looking under desks... It was really pathetic considering Cloud was hanging around in the same town. Aerith knew where Cloud was when she was in a completely different world and yet Tifa can't find him when he is in the same town??? Guess who Cloud is connected with (it starts with an "A")?
3. Cloud is running and hiding from Tifa. So, in KH1 when Cloud was actually searching for his light, he is shown to be looking for, and being reunited with, Aerith. And, in KH2, when he is searching for his darkness, he is shown to be fleeing from Tifa. I fail to see anything romantic about Cloud running away from Tifa. Sorry, but, when I like someone, I don't run away from them. o_0 Cloud has never been portrayed as searching for Tifa. He never even mentioned her. And now he is trying to hide from her??? This should automatically kill the "Tifa=Cloud's light" theory for anyone with any common sense.
4. Cloud shows affection toward Aerith, but doesn't show any for Tifa. When Cloud was speaking with Aerith in KH2, his tone was soft and gentle. He was kind to Aerith, trying to reassure her that he would always come back, no matter how far away he went. Now compare this to how Cloud treats Tifa. He acts annoyed at her interference in his battle with Sephiroth, he refuses to accept her light, he leaves her alone to battle dozens of Heartless by herself, he runs away from her, he hides from her, etc, etc.... The only thing that convinced me that Cloud didn't flat-out hate Tifa was that he protected her from Sephiroth and Cloud would have done that for any of his friends. So Tifa is portrayed as a well-meaning, but pushy friend, and nothing more.
5. Tifa's light blinds Cloud/Tifa's light isn't suitable for Cloud. When Tifa first approached Cloud, her light blinded him. He covered his eyes and winced away from it as if it pained him. Light doesn't usually cause Cloud pain. When Hollow Bastion was transformed into Radiant Garden, that light didn't bother Cloud at all. This should make it pretty clear that Tifa's light is too bright for Cloud. It isn't suitable for him at all. Cloud's own inner light was a much more subdued gold, not the bright white of Tifa's light. This is just one more reason why Aerith, who is a stable being with both darkness and light, is more compatible with Cloud than Tifa.
6. Aerith has always been associated with light. This is another reason why I believe she is Cloud's light. When Aerith was first introduced to the world in FFVII, you see her face, bathed in light from the Lifestream. During the game, Aerith is shown in a vision to Cloud, running away into the light. On the altar where she died, Aerith was praying in a stream of white light. In the final FMV, Aerith reaches toward Cloud from a white light. And, at the very end, Aerith's smiling face was shown, once again, surrounded by the light of the Lifestream. Even in FFVII:AC, Aerith is associated with light. In every encounter with Aerith, the background is a bright white light. Aerith was the only spot of color and life in the movie. While everyone else was dressed in subdued blacks and grays, Aerith was there in her red and pink dress, surrounded by colorful flowers. In a gray world, Aerith's white light was a refreshing change. In KH1, Aerith was portrayed as being Cloud's light. And, in KH2, Aerith is the one to tell everyone that Hollow Bastion's original name was "Radiant Garden". After that, white shafts of light begin to rain down on the town. Not only that, but Aerith is now wearing white along with her signature red and pink.
So, when has Tifa been associated with light? When she blinded Cloud with her own light like a clumsy oaf in KH2. That's it. Like I said earlier, she is running around in black leather. If she were really intended to be Cloud's light, why not change her wardrobe a little, hmmm?
7. Aerith was shown with Cloud and Sephiroth on the official scans. That's right, Aerith was shown standing with Cloud and Sephiroth, not Tifa. So, since Cloud's darkness is being shown on the scan, doesn't it make sense that his light be there, too? And that would be Aerith. If it were Tifa, she would have been on the scans instead of Aerith. But, she wasn't.
--
Despite all of this overwhelming evidence, there are still people out there who don't believe that this game proves anything, because it was "unrelated to FFVII". On the contrary, Tetsuya Nomura (the director and character designer of KH, and the character designer for FFVII), had this to say about it:
"But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in FFVII might be answered."
So, yes, KH was very relevant to FFVII, especially to the relationship between Cloud and Aerith. It was stated as such by Nomura himself, which negates any claims that say otherwise. Nomura also stated that a ClAeris interpretation of the ending of KH can be made. Plus, in an interview with Yoshinori Kitase (the director and writer of FFVII, and the co-producer of KH), he stated: "I believe it would be fun to create another story with Aeris and Cloud in a 'gaiden' (side-story) game. But, for now it's more interesting for me to create new stories featuring new characters."
So, what of Tifa? It was originally intended that Tifa make an appearance in Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix. Some info on this from an interview with Nomura:
"In fact, back when we were working on KH:FM, some of the staff members wanted to have Tifa show up. They said 'Battling with Tifa would be fun, in a melee sense' and originally wanted to add both Sephiroth and Tifa (into KH:FM) but due to tight schedules we could only go with one character so we inserted Sephiroth into KH:FM. Because of that, we decided to let Tifa show up in this game [Kingdom Hearts 2]."
So, is there anything in here about Tifa being Cloud's light? Nope. Is there anything in here about Tifa being the one Cloud was searching for? Nope. More than likely, Tifa's role would have been similiar to her role in KH2. However, it is also possible, since they only mentioned "battling" in regards to Tifa, that she was merely to be another fighting opponent in the Colisseum. Regardless of what her role was, it doesn't change the fact that Cloud was still reunited with Aerith in the credits. It doesn't change the fact that Aerith is that "someone" Cloud was looking for and, logically, that must make her his "light".
I think that while you can say that FFVII was "left up to the interpretation of the player", it is pretty clear who the creators of Final Fantasy consider the true and intended couple of FFVII. When asked what he wanted to portray in KH, Nomura stated that he wanted to show that people were not physically connected and that, even when apart, people could still be connected. In other words, Nomura wanted to show a connection of the spiritual kind, a connection of the soul. He wanted to show that, even though people are apart, they can still be together. This is shown with Sora and Kairi in KH, and it was shown with Cloud and Aerith in FFVII (Cloud was able to feel Aerith's presence in the Lifestream after she was killed, Cloud was able to speak with Aerith in his dreams-- both are symbols of soul mates to the Japanese) and FFVII: AC (Cloud and Aerith were shown to have a very deep bond and it was confirmed by the creators (FFVII: AC -Reunion Files-) that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside Cloud).
--
In Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories Cloud and Aerith appeared in basically the same roles they had in Kingdom Hearts. But, in Cloud's game profile, we see a very familiar statement... "Cloud seeks the true memories he has lost. Were they memories of someone dear to him, or memories of his own hazy past?"
Sounds familiar? It sounds very much like Cait Sith's prediction in FFVII: "What you pursue will be yours. But you will lose something dear."
That "something dear", as we all know, was Aerith. So, since the only FFVII characters in KH, besides Cloud, were Aerith, Yuffie, Cid, and Sephiroth, that "someone dear to him" has to be Aerith. ^_^ And, no, there is no mention of Tifa ever being included in KH:CoM.
Well that’s a nice fantasy you got going there but first of all they changed Clouds aperients because it’s the same outfit he has in AC and has nothing to do with his light. And if you didn’t notes all of the FF characters had their AC outfits on. Second you have no evidence or proof that Aeris was Cloud’s light. None of the creators have ever said that Aeris was Clouds light. And honestly because Aeris stares at Cloud for 5 seconds after the rolling credits that means that she is his light. Please. If she was his all so important then don’t you think that SE would have made a bigger seen involving the two not to mention that if Aeris was his light then why was the seen in the rolling credits and not a part of the game? I also can’t believe you would use something as stupid as Cait Sith's inaccurate and mostly wrong predictions as proof of Cloud and Aeris. Cait Sith: "This isn't good. I can't say it." Cait Sith: "Poor Tifa." Aerith: "No! Tell me!" Aerith: "I promise I won't get mad!" Cait Sith: "Is that so? Then I'll tell you." Cait Sith: "Looks good. You are perfect for each other!" Cait Sith: "Looks good. You are perfect for each other!" Cait Sith: "Aerith's star and Cloud's star! A great future!" Cait Sith's predictions, as gathered from previous experiences, can be neither true or relevant. It would seem that this one is false, too, as Aerith's death nullifies any possibility of her and Cloud having "a great future" together. So if his predictions were so false then why would you even think about using them as proof for KH FM? Almost everything you have written here is nothing but your opinion on the events that happened in KH1 and KH2. Your interpretation’s of cretin events in the games do not count as Cloud and Aeris proof. Also you over exaggerate Cloud and Tifa’s relationship way too much. First you make it sound like Tifa was forcing Cloud to remember their promises during FF7. Then you say that Cloud talked nicer to Aeris then he did to Tifa then you go as far to say that Cloud was annoyed with her. You really make her out to seem like a pretty bad person that Cloud wants nothing to do with. Now if you don’t like Tifa or think she’s boring then that’s fine but don’t exaggerate situations to suite your ideas. Did it ever accrue to you that maybe Cloud didn’t want Tifa to find him because he didn’t want her to get involved with Sephiroth. Maybe if Cloud knew that Tifa was his light he wouldn’t have been hiding. I bet you never thought of that because of your Cleris tunnel vision. To be completely honest Cloud talked the same way to both Aeris and Tifa. As far as the interview with Nojima you forgot to add this one Nomura Interview in KHII UltimaniaQ. On what kind of basis did you choose the FF characters?A. In a way, we selected characters that are on demand. We considered from both fans and the staff's opinions and it all ends with just characters that are highly on demand. Q. And Tifa from FFVII showed up.A. In fact, back when we were working on KH:FM, some of the staff members wanted to have Tifa show up. They said "Battling with Tifa would be fun, in a melee sense" and originally wanted to add both Sephiroth and Tifa (into KH:FM) but due to tight schedules, we could only go with one character so we inserted Sephiroth into KH:FM. Because of that, we decided to let Tifa show up in this game. When we were recording the voices for KHII, coincidentally they were also doing the recording for FFVII:AC so somehow we end up doing "Today we record FFVII:AC, tomorrow KHII"... (laugh) The voices were recorded in the same flow so I'm glad about that. Q. Speaking of Tifa, there's an event where she talked to Cloud after beating Sephiroth.A. In Nojima-san's scenario, it explained Cloud and Tifa's connection more in-depth but I deleted it away. I thought it would be more interesting to let the gamers think about it. For example, "If Cloud's darkness is Sephiroth, then Tifa is light"; in that sense you can take it that Tifa isn't really human. The reason Tifa doesn't talk to anyone else besides Sora and co. may be because she doesn't exist as a human. Of course, I also presented her in a way that she could also be a resident of Hollow Bastion, so I think you can feely think for yourself about her. There it is by the man himself. Tifa is the light NOT Aeris and here is a link to the document it you don’t believe me http://maiki.livejournal.com/351209.html
I wrote enough proof, where is yours? because I dont see any. like I said major faults of what clotis believe to be proof is just stupid
like reread points 1,2 and 5
let me rewrite some : D
Tifa wasn't included in KH1, but Aerith sure was. That's right. Tifa was not included during the first game when Cloud's entire sidequest involved him searching for "someone" and trying to find the "light". Tifa wasn't there. She wasn't mentioned. Nada. In fact, Cloud's sidequest ended during the KH credits when he was shown reuniting with Aerith. If you follow this to its logical conclusion, then it means Cloud was searching for Aerith. She was that special someone. She is his light. It would have been really easy for the creators to throw in a cameo for Tifa and show Cloud reuniting with her in the credits instead of Aerith, but, guess what? They didn't want to. That should tell you something.
Tifa's light blinds Cloud/Tifa's light isn't suitable for Cloud. When Tifa first approached Cloud, her light blinded him. He covered his eyes and winced away from it as if it pained him. Light doesn't usually cause Cloud pain. When Hollow Bastion was transformed into Radiant Garden, that light didn't bother Cloud at all. This should make it pretty clear that Tifa's light is too bright for Cloud. It isn't suitable for him at all. Cloud's own inner light was a much more subdued gold, not the bright white of Tifa's light. This is just one more reason why Aerith, who is a stable being with both darkness and light, is more compatible with Cloud than Tifa.
also when did i even mention 'the promise' in this statement? you didnt read obviously
how do I make her out to be a bad person? all I said is she was boring unlike someone who dislikes someone because of their looks
and cait sith's predication's can be considered realiable a lot of people say that Cait Sith's predictions are wrong, but they aren't. Cait Sith wasn't always able to tell Cloud what he wanted to hear, but he wasn't necessarily wrong either, especially when it was something important. The more fortunes Cait Sith read, the more potent and true they seemed to be
For instance "give in to the good will of others and something big will happen" could refer to Cloud's cold exterior being melted away by the kind nature of Aerith. Cloud did not seem to care for anyone or anything until after he met Aerith. Aerith was the only one who could get Cloud to open up and care. So, what was the big thing that happened? It could be referring to Cloud falling in love with Aerith. It could be referring to Cloud caring enough for Aerith and the planet to fight Sephiroth and help save the world. It could be referring to many big things that happened during the course of FFVII. So, is this prediction wrong? No.
"Be careful of forgetfulness" is a fortune of great importance for Cloud. After all, he forgot about his life as a common grunt in SOLDIER and started believing he had been living the life of SOLDIER First Class, Zack. Is this prediction wrong? No.
"Your lucky color is... blue?" Well, Cloud did wear blue all the time in FFVII. XD Not to mention, he has amazing blue Mako eyes. So, is this prediction wrong? Well, no.
"What you pursue will be yours." This could be referring to the Black Materia, but, personally, I think it is referring to Sephiroth. After all, Cloud was chasing Sephiroth down during the events of FFVII. And he did catch up with him. Again, this prediction doesn't appear wrong at all.
"But you will lose something dear." What was the price Cloud paid for hunting down Sephiroth? He lost Aerith, the one most dear to him. Once again, we see that Cait Sith's predictions are not wrong. He didn't know what or who Cloud would lose, but he called it right.
So, if these predictions aren't wrong, then why would anyone claim that Cait Sith's prediction regarding Cloud and Aerith's compatibility was wrong? o_0 Here is what Cait Sith had to say about them:
"This isn't good. I can't say it. Poor Tifa." Why would Cait Sith feel bad for Tifa? Read on...
"Looks good. You are perfect for each other! Aeris's star and Cloud's star!" Funny, CloTis think the stars show Cloud's love for Tifa. Looks like you guys were wrong again. XD
"They show a great future!" How was Cait Sith to know what Aerith would be the "something dear" that Cloud lost? This prediction shows that, if Aerith had not died, she and Cloud would have had a wonderful life ahead of them. crying
"Cloud, I'll be your matchmaker, preacher..." Preacher??? Did Cait Sith see a wedding in their future??? O_O
"I'll do whatever you want me to! Just call on me when it all happens!" Yep, it looks like Cait Sith believed Cloud and Aerith would wed in the future! ^_^ Don't believe me? Look at the Japanese version of this scene... "Cloud, I'll arrange your marriage, be the host, or a spy, whatever you ask! Just call me then, OK?"
and here another part for you to reread
Tifa offers her light to Cloud. What they don't tell you is that Cloud is dubious about the whole thing and actually does not accept Tifa's light. He actually begins to glow from within. It is pretty obvious to me that Cloud has found his inner light, because it is gold in hue, not white like Tifa's. Plus, we never see anything transfer from Tifa to Cloud, since he never accepted her light to begin with. Just because Tifa offers her light to Cloud does not make her Cloud's light. Everyone in the world of KH has light and darkness in their hearts, even Cloud. This is Tifa's light she is offering him, referring to it as "my light", not "your light". It is not Cloud's light or she would have said "Let me give you your light" rather than "Let me give you my light". Cloud's entire sidequest is about him facing his darkness (Sephiroth) and finding his own inner light. When Cloud was leaving, Sora said to Aerith, "He'll be fine. I'm sure there's some light in him somewhere." They are talking about inner light, people, not a person who is his light. In case you didn't catch that in KH1, that person who is Cloud's light in a romantic sense is Aerith, much in the same way that Kairi is Sora's light and yet Sora also has his own inner light.
and no he did not talk to the to them you can look at expression gestures and such
and its not like I meant that Cloud talked oh so evily towards Tifa but when they talk is there ever any real affection, beyond friendship? no
[and some more rereading for you]
In fact, back when we were working on KH:FM, some of the staff members wanted to have Tifa show up. They said 'Battling with Tifa would be fun, in a melee sense' and originally wanted to add both Sephiroth and Tifa (into KH:FM) but due to tight schedules we could only go with one character so we inserted Sephiroth into KH:FM. Because of that, we decided to let Tifa show up in this game [Kingdom Hearts 2]."
So, is there anything in here about Tifa being Cloud's light? Nope. Is there anything in here about Tifa being the one Cloud was searching for? Nope. More than likely, Tifa's role would have been similiar to her role in KH2. However, it is also possible, since they only mentioned "battling" in regards to Tifa, that she was merely to be another fighting opponent in the Colisseum. Regardless of what her role was, it doesn't change the fact that Cloud was still reunited with Aerith in the credits. It doesn't change the fact that Aerith is that "someone" Cloud was looking for and, logically, that must make her his "light".
I think that while you can say that FFVII was "left up to the interpretation of the player", it is pretty clear who the creators of Final Fantasy consider the true and intended couple of FFVII. When asked what he wanted to portray in KH, Nomura stated that he wanted to show that people were not physically connected and that, even when apart, people could still be connected. In other words, Nomura wanted to show a connection of the spiritual kind, a connection of the soul. He wanted to show that, even though people are apart, they can still be together. This is shown with Sora and Kairi in KH, and it was shown with Cloud and Aerith in FFVII (Cloud was able to feel Aerith's presence in the Lifestream after she was killed, Cloud was able to speak with Aerith in his dreams-- both are symbols of soul mates to the Japanese) and FFVII: AC (Cloud and Aerith were shown to have a very deep bond and it was confirmed by the creators (FFVII: AC -Reunion Files-) that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside Cloud).
Nomura: "In Nojima-san's scenario for that, it gave a more definite to Cloud and Tifa's relationship, but I had him take it out. I think it's more interesting to get the people who play the game to think about it. For example, in the sense of 'if Sephiroth is darkness to Cloud, then the light is Tifa', people might take it as Tifa being a kind of being, not like a regular human being. Maybe the reason Tifa doesn't talk to anyone besides Sora, Donald, and Goofy is because she's something different, who doesn't exist as a human being. Of course, you could also look at it like she's an inhabitant of Hollow Bastion like Cid, Aerith, and the others. I hope you will think about it freely."
So, what does this interview mean? Well, it is Nomura being vague as usual. The CloTis like to use the "more definite to Cloud and Tifa's relationship" to mean that Cloud and Tifa were to be shown as a romantic couple. I find this ludicrous because Cloud is portrayed as running and hiding from Tifa. XD He never shows any affection toward her at all (unlike the cute scene he has with Aerith where he promises to return to her). So, this mysterious "CloTi scene" was probably anything but romantic. In fact, for all anyone knows, it could have given "a more definite to Cloud and Tifa's relationship" in the sense that is showed them as friends only, and that their relationship was completely platonic. Hell, for all we know, it could have shown Cloud leaving with Aerith and Tifa standing there alone. That would have definitely been a "definite for Cloud and Tifa's relationship" because it would not have left any question over who Cloud's romantic interest was. So, what is Nomura saying here? Well, like I said, he's being vague. But, it is certainly not pro-CloTi or pro-ClAeris unless you completely twist his words.
Another part of the interview CloTis are using is the line: "For example, in the sense of 'if Sephiroth is darkness to Cloud, then the light is Tifa'..." CloTis think Nomura is saying that Tifa is Cloud's light, but he really isn't. All Nomura is talking about are different player interpretations. He never said if this was a correct interpretation, but it is one that some players will have (*cough*CloTis*cough*) and he knows that. He is simply saying "if you want to take it this way, then go right ahead". I even asked Vilaeth, the site translator for adventchildren.net about this and he said that this was a correct translation. So, no Nomura never said that Tifa is Cloud's light. Really, all he was saying is that you can interpret Tifa as being "light". Not "Cloud's light", but "light". And, you know, during the battles with Sephiroth, Tifa just might represent light. She certainly has more of it than Sephiroth and even has more than Cloud, who has swayed to the darkness before. It still does not mean that she is Cloud's light. If Yuffie were there offering Cloud aid by giving him some of her light, there wouldn't even be a debate about their relationship. I find this whole thing ridiculous. I mean, in KH:CoM, Mickey gave Riku some of his (Mickey's) light to help him (Riku) and no one started clamoring about MickeyxRiku. Honestly, people
ok that was alot you can reply now : ]
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