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Though there were many personal conversations carried on throughout the room, Eleuthero seemed neither displeased nor distracted by them, until Torrid spoke. He rustled his wings and turned his glowing gaze on the pair of Choleric boys. "An interesting tangent, that..." Eleuthero addressed them as though the three had been having a private but casual chat this entire time. "There are those who pray to gods not because they wish to build up their Karma to receive help in times of trouble, but to justify their deeds, and use the god's power as fodder against their enemies. I mention this because the Outsiders collectively believe in an monotheistic deity known as Jesu." Eleuthero's wise expression grew sad. "We believe that at one point in time this deity was the Jesus of Christianity. But like the Outsiders, the deity has become warped and malicious with time and war. The Jesu they worship now is a vindictive and cruel god, all about wroth and smiting the enemies of His people. The Outsiders call us hethens and heretics, and set their Jesu's eye upon us. Faith in our own deities to combat His twisted power is a greatly appreciated blessing." Eleuthero turned his glance to Daggart then. "We cannot make you believe, for forced faith in and of itself is nothing. But should you find a patron God, every time you pray, you pray for us all."

"Doesn't that lessen your faith in yourself though? If you're always relying on an unseen god to save you when the time is dire, what will you do if that split second between decision and action stretches too long and becomes dire, even fatal?" He shrugged, "If you've a strong belief in yourself you won't need to rely on something as intangible as a god, don't you think?" He wasn't being flippant or arrogant, just thinking it through to the best of his ability. Daggart found it difficult to imagine putting one's life in the hands of something he couldn't see, fell, taste, touch, or smell.

He shivered, however, as Eleuthero's gaze settled on them and kind of shrunk away as thought he felt guilty. Blinking the Choleric was unable hold Eleuthero's gaze and glanced at Torrid. "Doesn't that mean then, that every time we encounter the Outsiders, we use our own gods against them? How is bringing the power of our gods to bear against our enemies any different then Outsiders using Jesu's power against us - malicious or no?" He was confused and he spoke with a knitted brow as he tried to process all of this. He didn't like all of this heavy talk and he couldn't quite understand how two 'wrongs' made a right. He sighed and shook his head, looking apologetic, "I'm sorry. Religion just isn't my thing, I think."

He hoped he didn't seem disloyal. He was, he'd do whatever was needed to serve and protect his city, but he just couldn't deal with such lofty ideals as faith and religion.

---

It was here that Astaroth finally found something to say. He turned in his chair to fix Torrid and Daggart with his own cool gaze, "Should we not defend ourselves? Even if the god as no direct effect on us as a city, it still instills purpose and direction for the Outsiders, gives them something to place their faith in and follow blindly. That purpose is our destruction." He tilted his head, "Their god still effects them. Will you fault us for believing in deities that boost our moral and confidence like a safety net, giving courage to those who seek or need it so that we might stand against the hordes of monsters and Outsiders? It is different because we would not attack them if we were to be left in peace. They force our hand. Of this I am certain." His expression was serious, tone solid and flowing as he spoke. He was clearly very loyal to the city.

---


Kallisto, in the meantime, had sat up to listen. Did it really matter whether or not one believed or didn't believe? Wasn't this all supposed to be a personal choice? Some sort of personal epiphany one would come to? She sighed and noted down the tidbits about Jesu. He sounded like an awful god to worship and she underlined the note, making a mental note to avoid the deity should she ever come across him or the Outsiders.

Aysel was quickly growing uncomfortable. She could accept the reality of these deities..in theory...and even went so far as to privately think of the moon as her patron goddess..but she hesitated at the idea of using the gods as...as ways to fight. It was as though they were small children, boasting that their toy was bigger and better than any other. The gods...deities...were not toys, and should not be used as such.

That, and the idea of a malicious god such as Jesu was a terrifying one to her.

Lior had been listening with fascination as all of this discussion went on, barely able to keep up enough to write his notes - they were just shorthand, really, but he'd be able to make sense of it later, he was sure. "I have to put my two cents in at this point," he spoke up, glancing at Daggart. "I think that is a good point, really. How is it any different? We have faith in our Gods to defend us against the Outsiders and the Outsiders have faith in their Gods to defend against us. In a sense, we're the same, but I can't help but to feel like our cause is somewhat better - We don't go out searching for the Outsiders and bring our Gods down upon them. They come to us, hunt us down and drag their Gods down on us, is that not right?" He paused, feeling awkward for a second and biting his bottom lip. Perhaps he was getting into it too deeply...

Ubel looked up as Cashimer came in, tilting his head in confusion as the Phlegm settled further away from Lior. He gestured for the other to come closer, to sit near Lior, smiling to let him know it was all right.

Arwen finished penning down the Professor's words, finally taking a moment to glance up and behind her at all the conflict. She felt so detached from everyone and their own little battles; everyone seemed to absorbed in their self-righteous fears! Personally, the girl would do her own research and draw her own conclusions, as cowering in her seat at the mention of Gods seemed a little silly to her.

So. The Outsiders had bastardized a deity. She turned back to her notebook, adding her own notes about Jesu and her intent to read about Him; it seemed that, with enough people pulling on a God, they could actually corrupt Him to their own wills. How the mighty could indeed fall! Not as symbiotic as I thought, she corrected herself, jotting down notes, her quill moving furiously, there is simply supply and demand, and a peace inbetween if those needs are fulfilled.

Red eyes turned towards Aysel as she heard the other's soft voice. Well. This was Philosophy, was it not? Arwen felt it was simply opinions that may actually lead towards a truth...but that's why it was philosophy, for everyone thought they were right. Then again, the girl didn't have any friends to compare these statements to, and so she simply watched those who felt the need to speak, hoping the class wasn't getting off track.

Abacus stopped taking notes once the discussion began, turning in his seat to look at and watch each speaker. He quietly turned his flash off and snapped a picture of Daggart, reasoning that it would be easier than trying to take it all down in notes. But there was something that the professor had said earlier that still... troubled him.

"It seems to me that Jesu -- forgive me if I'm wrong, this is just a thought -- became his... current state due to his worshipers. Is it possible, therefore, for a worshiper to have influence on her or his deity. For instance, let's say a person's patron was a deity of growing things. What if this person was walking around and suddenly was attacked, and called on their deity to cause, say, a deadly plant to suddenly spring up and kill their attacker. Let's say this story spreads, and more and more people come to rely on this deity for such miracles. Would, over time, this former deity of growing plants become malicious in order to protect their faithful? This is all a far-fetched idea, however, and I mean no insult by it."

Belwen grinned slightly to herself, she knew she wasn't the cause of it but the dark boy was beginning to blush over all the attention he was drawing. Adorable! She thought to herself, unfortunantly the blush drew her attention from the discussion; Belwen wasn't particularly a deep thinker when it came to things she wasn't sure if she needed to trouble herself with.

Settling more on track she considered Daggart's words, he had some good ideas. Speaking once he was finished she added a few thoughts of her own. "What you are saying also goes well with some of the earlier thoughts on responsibility. Someone can cast a spell perfectly and praise their deity giving their deity the credit. But in that same fashion someone could cast a spell that kills someone else and give praise to their deity; sort of like shifting the view away from the caster as well as the responsibility for doing it." Belwen took a moment to sooth her skirt before finishing her thought, "one of the reasons I'd want to rely on what I know I could do, faith or not. It'd be a bit flaky to praise and shift blame for the things I was not comfortable with."

Nadyrr turned slightly looking over at the brightly colored Empyrean, she was all frilled up appearance wise but when she started talking he got the feeling there was definantly much more there. Nadyrr had also been taking time to consider his classmates; the dark colored quiet girl had drawn his attention as well as several of the more quiet ones. He wondered if they just had nothing to add or were uncomfortable doing so...or maybe they were just taking time to consider what faith meant to them.

Emrys smiled when he saw Arron come in, and edged over toward the other sort of shyly, then let fingers slip into the taller boy's hand. As class started, they both found seats ... and for the most part, Emrys stayed quiet, taking neat little notes and paying attention to what Eleuthero said. He realized the importance of having true faith in something rather than just pretending...

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Morrow smiled back at Dariyn and hugged the other in return. "Yes," he said quietly. "I decided to come." Nuzzling a little at Dariyn's neck, he ignored the world for a moment or two.

But by the time the class actually started, the two of them were in seats as well. Morrow tried to pay attention but he found his mind wandering a little and started doodling in his sketchbook.