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And then:

Translated highlights:


Fedor on Aikido
Q. Would Aikido work in MMA?
A. No, I don't think it'd work.

Fedor on Systema
Q. What is your opinion on “systema”?
A. Don’t undestand the question.

(Systema translates into "The System", and isn't really widely known in Russia. Would he train in something he doesn't even know about?)

Fedor on Natural Talent
Q. Do you think you have good genetics? Does that help in your fighting?
A. No, I think it’s hard work.

http://fedor.bel.ru/forum2/index.php?showtopic=1434&st=60.

There you go. He does NOT train in Systema.

Yeah. I did. What is your point? I used this story to forward my point very nicely. Dioxippus, an athlete vs Coragus, a great warrior Alex. supplied.




No, I used this to illustrate my point that his althletic prowess owned Coragus. It has nothing to do whether or not he used a club in Pank.




Again, what is your point?





WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

Without the club he would be dead.
We cannot know for sure how pancrace was practiced. Most claim that it was divided between sport and combat pancrace. But he used combat techniques to overcome his opponent.
You are way out of line comparing a greek hero to modern fighters. He was fighting for his life, has any prizefighter ever been in his shoes?

As for his spirituality here's a quote:

Athenaeus: The Deipnosophists
- BOOK 6, Pages 248-262

Translated by C.D.Yonge (1854).
And Aristobulus of Cassandreia says that Dioxippus the Athenian, a pancratiast, once when Alexander was wounded and when the blood flowed, said [ Hom:Il_5'340 ]-
'Tis ichor, such as flows from the blessed gods.

Maybe it is flatery, but Dioxippus the Athenian is shown to believe in the gods. So some element of spirituality is shown by him.
My point is that it takes more than just conditioning to do what he did and he being a pancratist had it (the training). Further argument requires a better understanding of ancient pancrace from the both of us. And I don't trust (most) online sources.

My instructors view has nothing to do with any my views on MA. I see what I see, and experience what I experience. I pay my instructors to teach, not to tell ME what is effective. I'll use what I judge to be effective in MY experience. Tekkyon and I view MMA superior, yes. But that's because it has the best ruleset that one can test his full strength in without actually causing permanent damage to anyone.

I thought that spirituality was in discussion. You used that Greek as an example and I merely said that he was more than a conditioned athlete. Alexander was not against him in fact he was his friend and sponsor. But of course he would side with his compatriot and be enraged when he lost face as a Macedonian. The plot against Dioxippus was the work of the other Macedonians. And thank you for aknowleging that he used technique too.
Dioxippus was more than a fighter or an athlete. Boxing and wrestling were olympic events but panchrace was something else alltogether. He was a panchratist and using him as an example for an athlete is plain wrong in my book.
I thought Fedor practiced systema from some talk in my gym that the Red Devils team instructors were involved with the systema instructors. I was obviously wrong about that. But not about Greek history.

I never said anything about your personal intelligence. Again, you're evading the discussion (which you instigated) and I don't care for the opinon of my instructor on the effectiveness of my art, that's not the point of the discussion. I posed my arguments to challenge your opinion of martial arts, if you can't respond appropriately I can only assume you can't defend your own beliefs and argument.



Adding onto what Cynical has already said about this comment. Regardless of whether or not his club techniques that "saved his life" in the battle against the Macedonian King were from combat Pancrase or sport Pancrase, assuming Dioxippus was purely an athlete w/ no real war experience, his training experience thus would primarily been sport based. (bringing me full circle to my previous argument that sport is in many ways a safe means of warfare) It is illogical to assume that the athlete excelled at combat techniques when he had no experience with actual warfare, moreso than a warrior with actual warring experience. We can therefore only conclude that it was his athleticism and sports training be a primary reason for his victory.



That's not unlikely though not because he was a pancration athlete but because he was Greek. Again, religion/spirituality was more of a factor of the ancient Greek society rather than the system/sport of Pancration. (bringing me again back to my original argument which you still have yet to effectively counter) You can separate Pancrase from the Greek gods, it's a combat sport that while originated in a highly spiritual culture is not inherantly spiritual; you can practice Pancrase without having to believe in the Greek Gods. You could not however lived in Ancient Greek without believing in the Greek Gods because that was an inherent factor of their society.



What? This is just plain laughable and riddiculous. Cynical has discussed and countered (as well as I) nearly every point of argument you've brought up, how is that not listening? His ability to form his own opinions and views as well as intelligent or logical deductions has nothing to do with his martial ability or training. Again, instead of showing that you can defend your comments and arguments logically you result to ad hominems. And you complain about him not listening...riddiculous.

Sambo sucks s**t as does systema.

That's pretty hot, actually.