|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:01 pm
Unibini Ok yeah plants do feel unfortuantly because they are living thing (well thats what my biology teacher told me anyway) but u are right about them obviously not having brains too so i suppose is they did feel any pain they wouldn't actually feel it because well they have no brain! sweatdrop ...plants do not perceive pain. Perceiving pain requires a nervous system and nerves to return to a brain in which a message for the sensation of "pain" to be delivered to that specific part of the body. ...which NO plant has. Chickens, on the other hand, do have brains and nerves that allow them to feel "pain". The dumbest s**t I've seen an anti-vegetarian post is "Corn has an IQ of 3." And no, that's not a joke. Someone actually said that. rofl
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:06 pm
I was given canines for a reason and that reason is to rip meat. I see no problem with eating meat. If we were not supposed to eat meat, we probably wouldn't be able to digest it in the first place. I do believe in humane killings and a balanced diet between meats and vegetables, however.
Not everyone has the luxury of being a vegetarian, either. Some people in the poorer countries have to hunt for their food, and if they were only allowed to rely on their crops, they would practically starve. Plus, this variety of foods that I've heard about isn't accessible to all peoples because money issues and different countries--saying that not all countries have all the vegetables/plants/whatever to make this balanced diet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:18 pm
Blood`Eternity No it isnt obvious, that would be like me telling a smart kid he has to sit in the corner and not learn for a month because all the other kids in class arent as smart as him. Actually nature does equal inherently good, nature is 'natural' and therefore is always right, it will always set straight the balance in the end, to go down the natural path is the right path whether there is another more 'righteous' or 'honorable' path the natural path is inherently the right one... We have the option but we are animals, the sooner humanity accepts that the better. In relation to "Does us having the ability to comprehend what we are doing make a difference?" and me asking "isn't it obvious". No it wouldn't be like telling a smart kid that. Where on earth did you get that idea from? It has no relavance to the discussion at hand and does not logically follow from what was being said. "Actually nature does equal inherently good, nature is 'natural' and therefore is always right" Nature is inherently neutral, if you think otherwise you are deluded or a theist (i'm not saying theists are deluded). Do some reasearch on the laws of thermodynamics Blood`Eternity I hardly consider killing a bull or a bear to be exploiting the weak, humans used to be afraid of bears it took 10+ of us just to take one down, believe me when it comes to a human vs. larger mammals we are definitely the weaker one, So you eat bull and bear meat? I think its fairly safe to assume that factory farmed animals are weak. Compared to man killing them, he uses tools (includes machinary), I haven't heard of a slaughter house where people use their bare hands to kill animals. Blood`Eternity its our brains that has kept our species alive not our muscles. You didnt know that? Fairly sure i knew that, but I didn't say anything to the contrary, if so quote me. Blood`Eternity Havent you heard those kids scream "OMG I just saw a cow get its head chopped off and so now I am never eating meat again! How could humans be so cruel I cant believe it", they do the same thing if they see a guy get shot and die by a soldier, they go all aggro on the government that that soldier is a part of but war is a natural part of humanity, its what we do, should it be prevented, hell yes, but is it wrong or evil? HELL NO. Thats your opinion, and it also has nothing to do with vegetarianism. Whether or not war is wrong or evil is subjective.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:32 pm
Missy Wyvern I was given canines for a reason and that reason is to rip meat. I see no problem with eating meat. If we were not supposed to eat meat, we probably wouldn't be able to digest it in the first place. I do believe in humane killings and a balanced diet between meats and vegetables, however. Not everyone has the luxury of being a vegetarian, either. Some people in the poorer countries have to hunt for their food, and if they were only allowed to rely on their crops, they would practically starve. Plus, this variety of foods that I've heard about isn't accessible to all peoples because money issues and different countries--saying that not all countries have all the vegetables/plants/whatever to make this balanced diet. Canines are used to hold food. If you actually wanted to rip food you would bite the meat and use your neck to tear it, these days we use knifes and forks, makes life a little easier. You will find that the great majority poor people who live in third world countries can rarely afford to eat meat because it is expensive. I'm sure most countries have the vegitables/fruits/nuts to support a balanced diet (including India and China), if not they can import. For the small minority of people living in extreme environments you have a point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:52 pm
This is why i don't take Iron supplements.
Although it is recomended you take vitiman C to help with your absorbtion, so drink ribena after you eat every now and then!
Mgs. iron per 100 grams (4 ounces) Foods
100.0 kelp
17.3 brewer's yeast
16.1 blackstrap molasses
14.9 wheat bran
11.2 pumpkin seeds
10.5 whole sesame seeds
9.4 wheat germ
8.8 beef liver
7.1 sunflower seeds
6.8 millet
6.2 parsley
6.1 clams
4.7 almonds
3.9 dried prunes
3.8 cashews
3.7 lean beef
3.5 raisins
3.4 Brazil nuts
2.9 pork
2.3 eggs
1.9 lamb
1.9 tofu
1.5 chicken
1.2 salmon
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:29 am
Emoti Blood`Eternity No it isnt obvious, that would be like me telling a smart kid he has to sit in the corner and not learn for a month because all the other kids in class arent as smart as him. Actually nature does equal inherently good, nature is 'natural' and therefore is always right, it will always set straight the balance in the end, to go down the natural path is the right path whether there is another more 'righteous' or 'honorable' path the natural path is inherently the right one... We have the option but we are animals, the sooner humanity accepts that the better. In relation to "Does us having the ability to comprehend what we are doing make a difference?" and me asking "isn't it obvious". No it wouldn't be like telling a smart kid that. Where on earth did you get that idea from? It has no relavance to the discussion at hand and does not logically follow from what was being said. I used a seperate example to put what you are trying to tell me into simpler terms, in its essence it is the same thing, your telling someone who has greater abilities that they have to bind themselves to a certain set of rules that the others arent bound by because they dont have those abilities.. because we have more intellect and brain power that grows expodentially we have to bind ourselves and therefore not kill at all. "Actually nature does equal inherently good, nature is 'natural' and therefore is always right" Nature is inherently neutral, if you think otherwise you are deluded or a theist (i'm not saying theists are deluded). Do some reasearch on the laws of thermodynamics Your right I suppose it is a neutral force, but a neutral force isnt wrong either its neutral, so if we follow this neutral force then we cannot be in the wrong.. My point is no matter our path with this the planet will eventually solve the issues because we are a part of nature, even with all our technology it all came from the earth even if it was man-made it was still made from something from the earth and ultimately the earth has control over that. Blood`Eternity I hardly consider killing a bull or a bear to be exploiting the weak, humans used to be afraid of bears it took 10+ of us just to take one down, believe me when it comes to a human vs. larger mammals we are definitely the weaker one, So you eat bull and bear meat? I think its fairly safe to assume that factory farmed animals are weak. Compared to man killing them, he uses tools (includes machinary), I haven't heard of a slaughter house where people use their bare hands to kill animals. I do eat bull and bear meat, and rabbit and fish I catch myself and deer and I have even had elk before, I've had shark a few times and many other animals... Just last night I had some bear sausage that my dads friend shot a few weeks ago. Well the problem with you wanting humans to reject meat consumption or fighting for anti-meat consumption is that not all animals in the stores are factory grown, my aunt and uncle heard cattles for a living, they sell the cattles to big business owners who kill those cattle instantly and package them. As for these cattle being weak, well the fact is they have been domesticated, in other words they are the property of humans now; they are domesticated the same way dogs and cats are, but western culture is against eating house pets so we dont eat dogs or cats. So I would not call 'factory' animals weak, I would call them domesticated, they are born and live simply to serve as food for humanity, domestication has long been a human way developed by our brains [using our intellect to survive] to feed ourselves, that way we dont have to risk our lives to get our food as much as we used to, the same way a chamilian[sp] blends in with its environment to protect itself from predators or many other animals hide themselves from stronger predators to defeat them, this is our defence mechanism.Blood`Eternity its our brains that has kept our species alive not our muscles. You didnt know that? Fairly sure i knew that, but I didn't say anything to the contrary, if so quote me. No you didnt, I just wanted to confirm the fact that humans use their brains to survive the dangers that face us, and not our strength like most other animals do.Blood`Eternity Havent you heard those kids scream "OMG I just saw a cow get its head chopped off and so now I am never eating meat again! How could humans be so cruel I cant believe it", they do the same thing if they see a guy get shot and die by a soldier, they go all aggro on the government that that soldier is a part of but war is a natural part of humanity, its what we do, should it be prevented, hell yes, but is it wrong or evil? HELL NO. Thats your opinion, and it also has nothing to do with vegetarianism. Whether or not war is wrong or evil is subjective. Well techniquelly its not an opinion it is a truth, their is people out there who are vegetarians simply because they watched a video of someone chopping off a cows head or of a pig being hung up and having its throat slashed so that the blood can run from it to make it easier to drain its blood, people think this is factory brutality but in truth people have always done this.. they just used to do it on a big wooden poll raised in the air, they tie cattle or pig to a rope, raise it in the air then slit its throat and drain the blood, from there they skin the animal and then cut the meat from its bones and so on, some people with weaker minds [usually due to the fact that their parents wouldnt let them see weaker forms of this as a child] are revolted by this simple custom and therefore are afraid of it. Thats just a fact jack :] The same way westerners thought certain tribes were sick for wearing the still bloody skins of animals, its all about customs and tradition, if it was tradition to have sex with your mother on your twelth birthday then everyone would find it okay; but what if someone was never exposed to this and then one day found out about it, they would be totally freaked out and because of their believes would fight against that... of course this doesnt prove that it is right, and our brains tell us it is wrong, but the true question is, is it wrong? The same thing can be applied to how some people feel about raising and killing animals for food, just because you think its wrong doesnt mean it is and because few people do find it wrong it will still continue to happen, and since this is supposedly a free world then they can do it legally.
Also dont ask me why we do it or how come we do it, because in all truth their is no reason as to why it happened a long time ago and it just became that way, our brains believe it to be okay or right and therefore it is.. there is no such thing as right or wrong or good and evil there is only that at which our brains are programmed to believe, yours was programmed to believe killing animals is wrong and mine was programmed to believe that killing animals is neccessary for the food that they provide, what we are trying to do now is convince the other either to believe in killing animals or not to believe in killing animals, and I highly doubt that either of us will win. :] I am just enjoying the argument to find new ways to argue my position and to hear your opinions on why not to eat meat, I find this interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:33 am
Emoti I feel like I should post some facts. Here are some famous vegetarians, I didn't even know till recently. Albert Einstein Charles Darwin Issac Newton Thomas Edison Pythagoras Fairly smart people IMO. Right, thats a stupid post.
Famous and smart meat-eaters:
Buddha
Jesus
Aristotle
Galileo
Benjamin Franklin
Being a meat-eater or vegetarian doesnt make a difference on your intellect, your will-power and brain power is what makes you smart; just because a couple of intellegent people were vegatarian or meat-eaters doesnt mean one should be a meat-eater or vegetarian, people should choose what they want to do based on their experiences and what they care about.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:38 am
Emoti Missy Wyvern I was given canines for a reason and that reason is to rip meat. I see no problem with eating meat. If we were not supposed to eat meat, we probably wouldn't be able to digest it in the first place. I do believe in humane killings and a balanced diet between meats and vegetables, however. Not everyone has the luxury of being a vegetarian, either. Some people in the poorer countries have to hunt for their food, and if they were only allowed to rely on their crops, they would practically starve. Plus, this variety of foods that I've heard about isn't accessible to all peoples because money issues and different countries--saying that not all countries have all the vegetables/plants/whatever to make this balanced diet. Canines are used to hold food. If you actually wanted to rip food you would bite the meat and use your neck to tear it, these days we use knifes and forks, makes life a little easier. You will find that the great majority poor people who live in third world countries can rarely afford to eat meat because it is expensive. I'm sure most countries have the vegitables/fruits/nuts to support a balanced diet (including India and China), if not they can import. For the small minority of people living in extreme environments you have a point. Yes Canines are used to hold food, but without them one cannot eat meat and so us having them implies that we were meant to use them to eat meat, dont be a technical smart a**, oh and even with knives and forks you still have to chew the meat. biggrin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:11 pm
Love Is Destructive Unibini Ok yeah plants do feel unfortuantly because they are living thing (well thats what my biology teacher told me anyway) but u are right about them obviously not having brains too so i suppose is they did feel any pain they wouldn't actually feel it because well they have no brain! sweatdrop ...plants do not perceive pain. Perceiving pain requires a nervous system and nerves to return to a brain in which a message for the sensation of "pain" to be delivered to that specific part of the body. ...which NO plant has. Chickens, on the other hand, do have brains and nerves that allow them to feel "pain". The dumbest s**t I've seen an anti-vegetarian post is "Corn has an IQ of 3." And no, that's not a joke. Someone actually said that. rofl Actually, I do believe they feel pain its just not in the way we do. Their brains are like their entire form because each part of them has a memory cell, mostly in leaves though I think. But how I know that they do is that this one time someone was copping a tree down and me and my friend swear to god we heard a scream from it. I have been in long study of spiritual influances of trees and their personality types of what kind of trees feel what. They do in fact remember and can feel things and sometimes even speak! They are far more then decorations upon a garden or lawn. Although not many believe this but experience to me prooves what science cannot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:24 pm
Blood`Eternity Yes Canines are used to hold food, but without them one cannot eat meat and so us having them implies that we were meant to use them to eat meat, dont be a technical smart a**, oh and even with knives and forks you still have to chew the meat. biggrin It wasn't a Vegetarian fact, so i was criticising it. You're wrong though we can eat meat without canines, they are used for tearing meat from an animals body, or keeping hold of an animals while it trys to escape. I don't see people doing that anymore. Yes we do need to chew meat, if we don't its very hard for us to digest, but you know we use our molars and pre molars to do that, herbivores have them too, so again what is your point?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:47 pm
Blood`Eternity Emoti I feel like I should post some facts. Here are some famous vegetarians, I didn't even know till recently. Albert Einstein Charles Darwin Issac Newton Thomas Edison Pythagoras Fairly smart people IMO. Right, thats a stupid post.
Famous and smart meat-eaters:
Buddha
Jesus
Aristotle
Galileo
Benjamin Franklin
Being a meat-eater or vegetarian doesnt make a difference on your intellect, your will-power and brain power is what makes you smart; just because a couple of intellegent people were vegatarian or meat-eaters doesnt mean one should be a meat-eater or vegetarian, people should choose what they want to do based on their experiences and what they care about. I said they were famous that is a fact, this thread is about making vegetarian facts. I made a comment stating my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:08 pm
Love Is Destructive Hm. How strange. Yeah, there's a cycle. But, do spiders have ANY other source of food and nutrition? No? Right. Plants don't have brains, plants don't have an IQ, plants don't feel. Nature dictates everything that occurs within a plant. There aren't nerve endings being sliced off like what happens to chickens before they're sent to slaughter. Since when was it nature for humans to breed cows and then chain the babies to poles in a farm for veal, to make sure they don't walk so the meat is tender? Yeah, nature intended humans just for that purpose. And this "healthy/balanced diet" crap? The only worthwhile thing about meat is protein, and eating meat has strong positive correlation to colon cancer and heart disease, while other meatless products (Boca, etc.) has less fat, is healthier, and, in most cases, either tastes the same or even better than the original product. "Meat isn't what causes obesity"? You've got to be kidding me. The entire reason the meat industry flourishes is because it can be made quickly and is easy to serve at a quicker pace than a lot of anything else. Fast food flourishes on burgers, not salads. Did I mention the added in hormones that are affecting growth rate, aging, etc. as well? You can't blame the food for obesity. It's the people that don't balance their eating with exercise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:05 am
Blood`Eternity Famous and smart meat-eaters: Buddha Jesus Aristotle Galileo Benjamin Franklin Buddha was vegetarian...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:07 am
Celtic Mystick Actually, I do believe they feel pain its just not in the way we do. Their brains are like their entire form because each part of them has a memory cell, mostly in leaves though I think. But how I know that they do is that this one time someone was copping a tree down and me and my friend swear to god we heard a scream from it. I have been in long study of spiritual influances of trees and their personality types of what kind of trees feel what. They do in fact remember and can feel things and sometimes even speak! They are far more then decorations upon a garden or lawn. Although not many believe this but experience to me prooves what science cannot. If you weren't being sarcastic about that statement, then you've just said one of the DUMBEST things I've ever even seen. Ever. You can't remember anything if you don't have any place to properly store it. Memory cells don't have brains, and your post is just full of stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
