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 Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:50 pm
i like burnination i know several of them. please don't make assumptions like that. i am not trying to de-humanize homosexuals. but i'm saying that they shouldn't force their beliefs onto me and be considerably intolerant of what i believe. homosexuals can live together and call themselves partners. i disagree of homosexuality, but it's their right to live together. if America were to make a law allowing gay marriage, wouldn't the government be discriminating against me and many others who are against allowing gays to marry? Just to put this into perspective: Let's look at marriage but 40-50 years ago in the United States of America. Interracial marriage was not legal. This was due to both segregation laws, and a bit of Christian influence, as the Bible itself speaks out against the marriage of two people from two different nations' blood. This would also in turn condemn, say... My mother from marrying an English guy she once had a fling with, 'cause she's full blooded Irish. More popularly, people were outspoken against the union of two quite obvious people of different backgrounds (ie African American and European American). Now, back in those days, they didn't do majority polls. They didn't count that most people in the US were opposed to interracial marriage when they passed the law to allow them to marry? Why? because it was a blatant violation of human rights. The same thing is going on now, but for some reason, the government doesn't want to overlook the polls this time. Many people still believe interracial marriage is immoral--and some always will. That is not grounds for denying those couples their freedom to union and to the same legal rights that come with marriage. The same goes for homosexual marriage. You may feel your rights are being violated because you may be denied the right to deny others rights, but... do you see the fault in that? It doesn't make sense. This country is all for human rights, correct? Why deny anyone those basic rights--so long as they do not harm another? I have yet to be countered on the point that homosexual marriage does not harm anyone. It is proven fact that children raised in homosexual unions are perfectly healthy, and do not suffer any more ridicule than any other child due to their parents. It is proven fact that tolerance of one thing is not the same as encouragement of it--in other words, one may be taught to tolerate past drug users and accept they are people, but that does not mean they will become drug users themselves. @ShadowCat: You have not used the Bible to support your arguments, because you really have yet to prove that it says anything against homosexual marriage... Which it doesn't, either way you look at it. Whether or not it states it is a sin is a debatable topic, but it does not say a thing about homosexual marriage. If you can prove it is a sin, and then prove that it is against God's laws to marry into any and every sin, then... you will have successfully found a contradiction in the Bible, as it states we are all sinners, and therefore, such a law would deny the right to marriage for everyone. At the same time, that isn't really what we're debating here, is it? We are talking about human rights in the United States of America, which should have nothing to do with religion. Majority religion or not, Christianity does not dictate the laws of the US. To force non-Christians to follow such a thing would be immoral.
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:07 pm
OH MY GOODNESS!
scream What the HECK Is everyone's PROBLEM in this thread? What, all of the sudden, we're at each other's throats?!?!?!?
ShadowCat and Takai.
CHILL. Now. Both of you were jerks at one point or another in this converstation....I'm deleting all of the posts where you completely rip one another to shreads. Takai, you know better, ShadowCat, you SHOULD--or you should learn, and quickly too.
Realize, BOTH OF YOU--that the other IS a CHRISTIAN and we are ALL part of the same Body of Christ...and get over it.
SO....I am now going to spend some of my valuable time cleaning up this thread....and I expect it to STAY that way, or I will delete the whole darn thing!
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:11 pm
:O
Uhm. I guess they can get married. I mean. I don't really caaaaare.
> ______________________>;;;
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:32 pm
OKAY.....Now that the thread is EDITED....
let's all be civil.
and burny--way to rock the Hitchhiker's Guide. "He hoped and prayed there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized what a contradiction that was, and merely hoped there wasn't an afterlife." mrgreen
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:50 pm
I knew Rowena'd come in here and ruin all the fun bring this topic back to a civil debate. lol
But yes. Can't blame Takai for getting defensive there. Anyone in his shoes would be.
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:10 pm
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:19 pm
Se Ga Takai, I just want to say that even though we're basically clashing at this point, I don't want any grudges held. I know a lot of what we've been saying in this topic has been out of anger. I apologize if I offended anyone.
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:22 pm
I'm sure you both just got caught in the heat of the moment.
Anyways, forgiveness is one of Jesus' most reknown teachings. =]
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:00 pm
i like burnination DemigoddessHalfdemon i like burnination a hooker can deny that she (or he) believes that prostitution is wrong, but i can assure you with the deepest conviction that her conscience testifies to her that it's wrong. What if she's an atheist who likes sex? she still has a conscience. the conscience is the one part (however small it is) of a human that testifies of God. everything else is like "SIIIIIIN!". that's as far into philosophy as i dare go, because quite frankly i can't stand philosophers. if you've read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, that's how i pretty much view philosophers. :] "we demand that we may or may not be philosophers!" You're missing my point. You can't say that everyone has that little part of them that conforms to christian beliefs. There are religions where the act of love, in every way, is celebrated as sacred. If someone believes that, you can't say that they are sinning for practicing it, and you can't say that there is still that part of them that believes in the christian God, and thinks it's wrong. You and I both believe that there is a supreme being that we call "God" who is the ultimate authority. Not everyone believes it, and whether you think that they are right or wrong, they still have the right not to have their morality assumed upon as Christian.
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:09 pm
DemigoddessHalfdemon i like burnination DemigoddessHalfdemon i like burnination a hooker can deny that she (or he) believes that prostitution is wrong, but i can assure you with the deepest conviction that her conscience testifies to her that it's wrong. What if she's an atheist who likes sex? she still has a conscience. the conscience is the one part (however small it is) of a human that testifies of God. everything else is like "SIIIIIIN!". that's as far into philosophy as i dare go, because quite frankly i can't stand philosophers. if you've read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, that's how i pretty much view philosophers. :] "we demand that we may or may not be philosophers!" You're missing my point. You can't say that everyone has that little part of them that conforms to christian beliefs. There are religions where the act of love, in every way, is celebrated as sacred. If someone believes that, you can't say that they are sinning for practicing it, and you can't say that there is still that part of them that believes in the christian God, and thinks it's wrong. You and I both believe that there is a supreme being that we call "God" who is the ultimate authority. Not everyone believes it, and whether you think that they are right or wrong, they still have the right not to have their morality assumed upon as Christian. i don't mean that the conscience is like "hey, you might be stumbling your brother by doing this or that!" i meant that there is a basic morality that all humans have the knowledge of which Romans chapters 1 and 2 asserts. and there is not such thing as ignorance of God, as (once again. tah dah!) Romans asserts. God is revealed throughout nature, so no man is without excuse. maybe some see a bit of God, get confused, and think that God is really the wind and starts worshipping wind. in this example, the people are still in error and somewhat decieved. the Jews were punished for worshipping a golden calf which was made out of good intentions. the calf represented the gentle side of God, but they missed the big picture since gentleness is not God's only attribute. therefore, the people who believe an act of love to be sacred (perhaps you're referring to the cults of Aphrodite?) are still in error because while they might be seeing the loving part of God, they have greatly expanded upon it and have deceived themselves. at the same time though, i don't mean to say that the way God manifests Himself in creation is confusing. i'm saying that it's quite possible that people were already leaning towards worship of the wind or worship through sex and the small part of God they saw only strengthened it. bah, i don't have the time to say all i want to say, so please forgive me if i sound a little unclear. it's off to bed for me. :] Roma and burny--way to rock the Hitchhiker's Guide. haha, thanks. "'I refuse to prove that I exist', says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.' "'But,' says Man, 'the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evovled by chance. It proves you exist, so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.' "'Oh dear', says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. "'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed at the next zebra crossing." :B
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:03 am
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:43 am
Cripes.
Isn't it amazing how one little statement can spark all this amusing infighting amungst the religious? Personally, I find great amusement in it... buuuut that's probably just me...
A pari or trio of HGttG lines...
'Yes, I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavoratory with a sign on the door saying "Beware the Leopard".'
Bypasses are deviceswhich allow some people to dash from point A to point B very fast whilst other people dash from point B to point A very fast. People living at point C, being a point directly between, are often given to wonder what's so great about points A and B that so many people are in such a hurry to get there. They often wish that people would work out where the hell they wanted to be.
'You're really not going to like it.' observed Deep Thought.
'Tell us!'
'All right. The Answer to the Great Question...'
'Yes...!'
'Of Life, the Universe and Everything...'
'Yes...!'
'Is...'
'Yes...!'
'Is...'
'Yes...!!!...?'
'Forty-two.' said Deep Thought, with infinite majesty and calm.
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:10 am
Superior Jazz Cripes.
Isn't it amazing how one little statement can spark all this amusing infighting amungst the religious? Personally, I find great amusement in it... buuuut that's probably just me...
A pari or trio of HGttG lines...
'Yes, I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavoratory with a sign on the door saying "Beware the Leopard".'
Bypasses are deviceswhich allow some people to dash from point A to point B very fast whilst other people dash from point B to point A very fast. People living at point C, being a point directly between, are often given to wonder what's so great about points A and B that so many people are in such a hurry to get there. They often wish that people would work out where the hell they wanted to be.
'You're really not going to like it.' observed Deep Thought.
'Tell us!'
'All right. The Answer to the Great Question...'
'Yes...!'
'Of Life, the Universe and Everything...'
'Yes...!'
'Is...'
'Yes...!'
'Is...'
'Yes...!!!...?'
'Forty-two.' said Deep Thought, with infinite majesty and calm. Lol, ever since reading those books, I'm tempted to answer "42!" when someone tells me "I have a question."
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