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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:41 am
Sasuke no Katon Actually. the chapter with Tiki, in my opinion, was not hard at all (for me, anyway). Then again, it was forever ago that I played so I may have had a few problems and am letting my boastful side get the best of me again... Oh well. I seem to recall just moving her to a corner and putting a guard infront of the door..., if we're talking about the same map. X_x Pretty sure we're not. I said FE13. It's not out in the US yet.
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:12 am
Manic Martini It is essentially -2 to their movement, just a different way of expressing it, yes. Even so, that turns a mounted unit into a foot unit. If we aren't complaining about foot units, reducing the movement of a mount to that of infrantry should solve the problem, shouldn't it? I used the straight line for ease of an example. If they aren't, even better. That's more distance for them to have to travel. It just got easier if they aren't in a straight line. There's presumably more than one enemy, but we also have more than one person to work with as well. I think that's plenty helpful. And they possibly aren't coming just from one direction but they're not coming from EVERY direction either (and very often, they ARE coming from just one direction, or there's something like a bridge they have to cross forcing them all in the same direction, or something). Apply the tactic in more than one way, no longer a problem. You deal with all the enemies at some point - mounted enemies just happen to sometimes be dealt with sooner. No one is going to let their healers get attacked (well, maybe, if it's for the purpose of dodge tanking and you know they can handle it, Bards/Dancers are sometimes good for this too - Nini/Nils on a forest is NOT getting hit anytime soon). But when does this situation you're describing happen when you being assaulted by horse-riding units constantly (I can think of some situations in H5 Difficulty of FE11, but in that case, you're just asking for punishment anway - and later chapters DO reward you for playing hyper offensive)? The only other particularly cavarly-heavy chapters I can think of are in Part 4 predominantly, and they feature choke points for you to use should you wish to. Incidentally, the most horse-heavy FE game is FE4 which sends huge hoards of them at a time at you, and they have Canto, and the hugest maps which would let them come from more directions. The chapter you get Tiki in in FE13 is quite similar to the situation you're describing, actually. You have to make a human wall with your units around Tiki for the chapter. I hear it's quite fun and exhilarating , although I need to ask Ephy for details. Cavalry could hypothetically be threatening under very particular circumstances... but they're not (flyers are another story). Your own cavalry can be, however twisted Wha-bu... it's only making them a footed unit in a straight line. In any other square of their entire movement, you haven't slowed them down at all. And if you're not blocking them in a straight line, than you haven't accomplished anything. You haven't removed any of their movement besides the one you're standing on. If you have 2 or more people this is great. But that's what I said in the first place. If I have the numbers to make a wall, that's exactly what I'll do. But if I don't, the only way I can see to go about it, is placing someone to bait them to move closer. Of course, (I'm gonna go on my "assumptions" rant again because I still had more to say on the subject by the time I was done with my last post.) this is amusing you can finish all of them off the next turn. And assuming they don't have reinforcements right behind them, like they often do, which you must continually block. And we're talking about possibly mounted archers, and possibly Javelin wielding bastards whom we may have no axe wielders to deal with. If you attempt to kill them all by moving in your frail characters, and fail, you've basically left all your units much more open to attack. If you don't have a bottle neck in this situation, you're screwed. This is allllll situational. But that's all they need really. 1 or 2 bad situations in a game where luck plays a high factor. A couple cheap shots may be all they need and we could possibly lose one of our people. And we're not just talking about any unit, we're talking about one of our fellow Fire Emblem Forever allies. I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate us letting them die. You can bet I'll be restarting the chapter if that happens. ...And this entire conversation is hypothetical. It seems no less legal to throw out some hypothetical situations which, frankly, aren't really that implausible. These things can indeed happen to you in a playthrough if you're not careful. Edited: Actually, even 2 people wouldn't do anything if they're attacking diagonally. You'd need at least 3, and even that hardly slows them down. Even more Edited: On the subject of hypothetical vs what goes down in previous games. In those games they have a different characters. We're talking about our so-far-army. And so far, we have very few hard hitters besides mages, and NO axe wielders before a promotion, making it harder to finish them off depending on our numbers vs theirs in whatever current situation we're hypothetically in.
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:16 am
Manic Martini Sasuke no Katon Actually. the chapter with Tiki, in my opinion, was not hard at all (for me, anyway). Then again, it was forever ago that I played so I may have had a few problems and am letting my boastful side get the best of me again... Oh well. I seem to recall just moving her to a corner and putting a guard infront of the door..., if we're talking about the same map. X_x Pretty sure we're not. I said FE13. It's not out in the US yet. Oh, fe13. I had a derpy moment and read it as Fe11. My bad. xD;; But on the subject of Tiki for a sec, I actually remember now that I thought about that chapter in Fe11....I had to reset six times before I got my strategy right, so I WAS letting my boastful side get in the way. I have a habit of up-playing my abilities in my mind which then makes me come off as arrogant. So I apologize. :3
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:40 am
We don't need to care about the majority of their possible movements. They're coming towards us. Which is generally at most two possible directions (and only two if they're away from us diagonally), the majority of which is going to be a straight line, or they aren't getting as far anyway. Let's assume we move first because we're the player phase. We can align ourselves to whatever trajectory they're going to take. A good 70-80% of the time, one direction IS all you need to block. At most, it's two, and tacking on just a second or third unit takes care of it. Making a wall like you suggest is definitely a more defensive option we can take, but it takes more units (walls have their place in a tactics arsenal as well, of course, but unless you're a defensive turtle-happy player, it's not the go-to). I personally prefer standalone bait in most situations because it lets my other units do other things hypothetically.
Against a Javelin, if I'm not approaching them (which IS an option with the Bards), I'd actually bait with a magic user with constant 1-2 range. Preferably a dodgy one or one with Nosferatu.
This is ALL hypothetical, I agree. As you said, "if you're not careful". Let's just assume we're going to be careful, like a good Fire Emblem player should be and leave it at that. xD
@ Sasuke no Katon: No need to apologize.
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:48 am
I'm not saying they're going to get to us on the first turn they attack, they just need to survive a turn... Which is where them troublesome archers and javelin wielders come into play. When using a mage to attack them vs a Javelin, we put them in further risk of death because they might get hit once, and then only need one cheap shot the next turn. And I don't know about you... but I'm not gonna tank with a mage of any kind if there is more than one of them. Granted, lots of the good mages out there who are dodgy probably would survive, it still seems risky, and only increases the chances of the RNG screwing you over. Edited: As I said in my "Even more edited:", we really don't have a lot of high damage characters. And we have a lot of frail characters to protect. And that's why they'd potentially be troublesome.
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:04 am
If you're measuring every enemy's movement, that shouldn't be happening.
Frontlining with magic users is a game-by-game thing, as can anyone with Holsety. Yuria can do it in FE4. The dark magic users can Nosferatu tank in FE6 (although I'd rather pull teeth than get Sophia to that point). Clarine can VERY reliably do it in FE6 with supports. Lugh is pretty reliable too, especially with supports. Everyone but Failina and the light magic users, can handle it, basically. Heck, Hugh, as a level 1 Sage has MORE Defense than Lance as a level 1 Paladin (and they have the same growth rate, meaning the Sage has more defense than the Paladin - and a very highly regarded Paladin, too). FE7, has a lot of magic users that can frequently handle the front lines. FE8 slightly less so, but it's still doable in some cases (the ever underrated Moulder stands out - has more HP than Amelia, and roughly 3 points less defense at 20/20; sounds like frontline material to me). FE8 onward, it became less feasible. By FE10, it seemed quite discouraged. On the bright side, it's totally doable in FE13. Long live easily purchased Nosferatu.
I'm not going to take an unnecessary risk either. But if I calculated before hand that the mage will be fine, they're going on the front lines with everyone else. Magic users happen to be some of my favorite units consistently because of their sheer versatility.
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:19 am
It still seems like we got the kinda team where we could every now and then be quite unlucky and accidentally lose one of our guys to a swift horse rider, no matter how well you calculate it.
But that's quite enough for me. It's been a pleasure debating with you though Marty McFly, as always. 3nodding
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:26 am
Pleasure as always, indeed.
My FE philosophy doesn't believe in luck or the lack of. Just raw calculation. If someone dies, I blame myself as a tactician. ;3
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:40 am
Manic Martini Pleasure as always, indeed. My FE philosophy doesn't believe in luck or the lack of. Just raw calculation. If someone dies, I blame myself as a tactician. ;3 That's a good way to think really... but feels slightly misplaced. One must always take the "odds" into their calculations as well. But I understand what you're saying.
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:45 am
Ookami Tsukiyomi Manic Martini Pleasure as always, indeed. My FE philosophy doesn't believe in luck or the lack of. Just raw calculation. If someone dies, I blame myself as a tactician. ;3 That's a good way to think really... but feels slightly misplaced. One must always take the "odds" into their calculations as well. But I understand what you're saying. Of course. If I lose a unit to, say... a 2% crit that would've lived otherwise, I understand it was me taking a risk I agreed to that backfired. But if I lose a unit to an enemy I failed to consider or didn't check their weapon or something that has a 56% chance of hitting and being that one hit that'll push it to a kill, that's completely my fault.
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:51 pm
o___o;;; this discussion totally blew my mind for a long moment. I wish I could put my two cents in, but it's been like, too long for me to add anything useful to this. xD;;
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:22 pm
I would probably be ethier a mercenary or a thief. Although leaning more towards mercenary. Swords are my weapon of choice. I can take a few hits so I gusse I'd have pretty good defense. My health would be a kinda above average. Making me a bit of a tank. My strength would be good. My speed would be average. Magic ressitiance. Bad. Using magic power. Awful. Skill would be below average. Luck would be lower then skill by a bit. Constitution would be above average. I may not dodge every attack or critical often but I could be put in the front lines to cut down a couple of enemies before being in desperate need of health... unless were fighting a bunch of mages or be used to protect allies who have low defense like mages or archers.
As a thief though... mybe be a jack of all trades. I'll add more to this later but I've got to go.
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:32 am
Sasuke no Katon o___o;;; this discussion totally blew my mind for a long moment. I wish I could put my two cents in, but it's been like, too long for me to add anything useful to this. xD;; It's fine. Me and Marty provide the thread with enough debate just fine by ourselves hah. P.S. New thread coming soon whee
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:34 am
Okay. But I still wish I could contribute. :3
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:25 am
Sasuke no Katon Okay. But I still wish I could contribute. :3 Aww than feel free whenever you like. Don't be intimidated by our overzealous essay replies hahaha.
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