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 Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:49 pm
I.Am Oy! No name calling, children! The rules of the guild clearly state that you are not allowed to personally attack any specific person or any other guild. We have rules like that, because we are a civilized guild. my bad, i was making an allusion... yeah, it was a stretch. but i erased it.
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:56 pm
Less that then the ", I hate her..." part.
Really, you aren't even supposed to name someone in the Pro-Choice guild, because they can't defend themselves, with the exception of Talon and such.
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:57 pm
Quote: Why is it that you cannot understand that our beliefs are also consistant based on our stance on abortion? I refer you to this statement I made earlier: Quote: 1) Feminists support women's rights. 2) Pro-lifers don't believe that the right to an abortion falls under the catagory of "women's rights." Conclusion: To you being pro-life feminist makes perfect sense because you are in support of all rights you believe a woman ought to have. So what don't I understand about internal consistency of the pro-life, feminist view? Quote: Explain why pro-life is about the subjugation of women and why everyone in here besides you is the equivilant of a racist, and explain why we can't be feminist and pro-life. And for you, I refer you to Penguin Spoons' statement: Quote: Why is it that you cannot understand that our beliefs are also consistant based on our stance on abortion? I believe that even if a fetus was granted personhood it has no right to use a woman's body against her will. I base this on McFall V Shimp as well as the essay presented by JJ Thomson. To say a woman must subject herself to an unwanted proceedure and condition for the sake of another is to make her less than a man who is not forced into any such situation. Hence Pro-life is an affront to equality. This is an internally consistent view. Considering that, it makes perfect sense for me to equate pro-life movement to racists in that pro-life would make women a second class citizen with regard to her bodily integrity where racists would do that to an ethnicity with regard to civil rights. Quote: Would you say it's anti-woman to oppose a woman beating her children? Of course not. So when you know that to us, a fetus is a child, why would you think it would be anti-woman for us to maintain that a woman shouldn't have the right to kill her child? Do you think a woman should be obligated to surrender her kidneys, her lungs, her bone marrow, her blood and any redundant organ she has because her child is sick, even if it is against her will and could permanently injur her? Of course not. So when you know that to us, a fetus has no more of a right to her body than her born child, you'll understand why we think it is anti-women to say she should be subjected to such treatment when a man is not. I.Am Less that then the " , I hate her..." part.
Really, you aren't even supposed to name someone in the Pro-Choice guild, because they can't defend themselves, with the exception of Talon and such.Does this mean people can openly call me names crying /I kid XD
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:02 pm
Why is Talon the exception? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. Aren't we not supposed to be doing any of that against anyone? I can't start a thread that says, "I hate I.Am!" First of all because I'd go to hell for lying, secondly because we're not supposed to be attacking specific people at all. Why should Talon be the exception?
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:05 pm
lymelady Why is Talon the exception? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. Aren't we not supposed to be doing any of that against anyone? I can't start a thread that says, "I hate I.Am!" First of all because I'd go to hell for lying, secondly because we're not supposed to be attacking specific people at all. Why should Talon be the exception? >> I suppose he really means to say that you can directly confront something I've said because I'm here to respond to it. Whereas if you say "omg Neth said XYZ and that pisses me off," Neth isn't able to come here and defend herself. I don't think that it means it's open season on me (or at least I hope >> )
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:05 pm
lymelady Why is Talon the exception? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. Aren't we not supposed to be doing any of that against anyone? I can't start a thread that says, "I hate I.Am!" First of all because I'd go to hell for lying, secondly because we're not supposed to be attacking specific people at all. Why should Talon be the exception? Because Talon has partial run of the guild
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:06 pm
Talon, I know you aren't stupid. I know you know we do -not- support women becoming "second class citizens." We apparently do support them becoming what -you- deem a second class citizen, but we have different qualifiers apparently. If you can understand why we can be Feminist and Pro-Life according to our beliefs, why would you believe that our beliefs are equivalent to racism?
You know that our beliefs have reasons for overriding bodily integrity: The life of the child outweighs the desires of the mother. I don't want to argue it, but you know that's what we believe and that we have reasons to believe that besides, "Oh, we just feel like being that way. Just 'cause. Or because we don't like women." Because that's not true (As opposed to racism where all arguments for straight racism are illogical.)
If you are going to say that, surely you would not mind us stating that your beliefs are equivalent to agism, and infanticide, and the holocaust, and racism, and eugenics, and on and on, because according to what we believe, your beliefs -are- equivalent to those.
Kate-Talon's the exception to being named, like having it stated that "Talon believes this," not the exception to hate threads and namecalling. sweatdrop Sorry if that was confusing.
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:07 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle lymelady Why is Talon the exception? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. Aren't we not supposed to be doing any of that against anyone? I can't start a thread that says, "I hate I.Am!" First of all because I'd go to hell for lying, secondly because we're not supposed to be attacking specific people at all. Why should Talon be the exception? Because Talon has partial run of the guild Parital run of what guild? I don't own, co-own, or mod any guild related to the abortion debate. /confused
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:07 pm
Talon-chan I don't think that it means it's open season on me (or at least I hope >> ) It totally does. ^_^ Rawr! domokun I hates u! evil
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:10 pm
Talon-chan Pyrotechnic Oracle lymelady Why is Talon the exception? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. Aren't we not supposed to be doing any of that against anyone? I can't start a thread that says, "I hate I.Am!" First of all because I'd go to hell for lying, secondly because we're not supposed to be attacking specific people at all. Why should Talon be the exception? Because Talon has partial run of the guild Parital run of what guild? I don't own, co-own, or mod any guild related to the abortion debate. /confused Run, as in traverse, trek, walk, travel. You're alloud to be here, but not aloud to debate in certain situations.
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:12 pm
Talon-chan Quote: Why is it that you cannot understand that our beliefs are also consistant based on our stance on abortion? I refer you to this statement I made earlier: Quote: 1) Feminists support women's rights. 2) Pro-lifers don't believe that the right to an abortion falls under the catagory of "women's rights." Conclusion: To you being pro-life feminist makes perfect sense because you are in support of all rights you believe a woman ought to have. So what don't I understand about internal consistency of the pro-life, feminist view? Quote: Explain why pro-life is about the subjugation of women and why everyone in here besides you is the equivilant of a racist, and explain why we can't be feminist and pro-life. And for you, I refer you to Penguin Spoons' statement: Quote: Why is it that you cannot understand that our beliefs are also consistant based on our stance on abortion? I believe that even if a fetus was granted personhood it has no right to use a woman's body against her will. I base this on McFall V Shimp as well as the essay presented by JJ Thomson. To say a woman must subject herself to an unwanted proceedure and condition for the sake of another is to make her less than a man who is not forced into any such situation. Hence Pro-life is an affront to equality. This is an internally consistent view. Considering that, it makes perfect sense for me to equate pro-life movement to racists in that pro-life would make women a second class citizen with regard to her bodily integrity where racists would do that to an ethnicity with regard to civil rights. Quote: Would you say it's anti-woman to oppose a woman beating her children? Of course not. So when you know that to us, a fetus is a child, why would you think it would be anti-woman for us to maintain that a woman shouldn't have the right to kill her child? Do you think a woman should be obligated to surrender her kidneys, her lungs, her bone marrow, her blood and any redundant organ she has because her child is sick, even if it is against her will and could permanently injur her? Of course not. So when you know that to us, a fetus has no more of a right to her body than her born child, you'll understand why we think it is anti-women to say she should be subjected to such treatment when a man is not. I.Am Less that then the " , I hate her..." part.
Really, you aren't even supposed to name someone in the Pro-Choice guild, because they can't defend themselves, with the exception of Talon and such.Does this mean people can openly call me names crying /I kid XD hold on- what the crap are you talking about? yeah, we know that males and females have different bodily functions. it is not because guysh ave forced it on women... it's like blaming guys for not having periods- it's not OUR fault we were born with penises. nor is it YOUR fault, nor should you gain special treatment because, you have a v****a. i believe that is the true aim of feminism anyway, correct?
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:14 pm
I.Am Talon-chan I don't think that it means it's open season on me (or at least I hope >> ) It totally does. ^_^ Rawr! domokun I hates u! evil Oh NOES! crying gonk crying scream Quote: Talon, I know you aren't stupid. I know you know we do -not- support women becoming "second class citizens." We apparently do support them becoming what -you- deem a second class citizen, but we have different qualifiers apparently. If you can understand why we can be Feminist and Pro-Life according to our beliefs, why would you believe that our beliefs are equivalent to racism? Because that is what is most consistent with my belief. Subjegation, even with the best intentions, even if you don't believe you are subjegating anyone... is still subjegation. Quote: If you are going to say that, surely you would not mind us stating that your beliefs are equivalent to agism, and infanticide, and the holocaust, and racism, and eugenics, and on and on, because according to what we believe, your beliefs -are- equivalent to those. If you felt I was ageist, for infantcide, etc... and it was consistent with your own view, then what's the problem? I don't think I'm that... but then again... subjegation, even with the best intentions, even if I don't believe I am subjegating anyone... is still subjegation. If in your view I'm an ageist, infantcide supporting, racist who is equivalent to a eugenics operator of the holocaust, then so be it. It is consistent with your views and that's what I am to you. If in my view your side is anti-women, pro-punishment, and anti-bodily integrity that makes you comparable to racists, then so be it. It would be consistent with my view and that's what you are to me. Essentially... it's agreeing to disagree. I don't believe what you believe. You don't believe what I believe. However within our own views some of our insults can be internally consistent, even if the opposition disagrees with the label.
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:21 pm
The problem is, that's reasonless insulting! It's like, I can make up my beliefs however I like and state that the world's against me, but that doesn't make it true! I can say that, if I don't receive a thousand dollars from everyone I meet, that means that they hate me and think I'm a second class citizen, and, thus, are racist. And, according to my twisted beliefs, I would be right. But I'm not actually right. I just believe myself to be right. They don't actually think I'm a lower class citizen. So they aren't actually racist.
I'm just a paranoid freak.
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:24 pm
Maybe I'm weird in that I don't discriminate against people based on their beliefs to the point where I'd try to avoid befriending them. I thought it was pretty normal that even though I'm pro-life, my best friend is pro-choice. I didn't realize that personal beliefs were a good thing to use to discriminate against people. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:33 pm
lymelady Maybe I'm weird in that I don't discriminate against people based on their beliefs to the point where I'd try to avoid befriending them. I thought it was pretty normal that even though I'm pro-life, my best friend is pro-choice. I didn't realize that personal beliefs were a good thing to use to discriminate against people. Thanks for clearing that up for me. i have friends who are pro-choice, and unless they have an abortion, then i am fine with them. fortunately, i don;t have know of any of the blatant and wrathful ones...
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