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 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:54 pm
entervixen kage no neko It's that it's insulting to say that if you don't follow these rules, you're not a real witch. That's what she's trying to point out. She was saying that most "real" witches adhere to a certain principle of morality. Yes, morality is subjective. However, most people would agree that to harm another in any way, shape or form is "immoral". You can be a real witch without such, but it's something to keep in mind. Then you'd have to define harm. That alone raises all sorts of debates, including abortion and vegetarian. Is killing a fetus harmful? Is it harmful to kill a cow for it's beef? Is it a bad kind of harmful? Plus the rede says if it harms none, do what you will. It doesn't say anything about what if it does harm something. Just if it doesn't harm, do what you want. It doesn't say that if it harms something, you're not allowed to do it. It never specifies what happens if it is harmful.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:55 pm
kage no neko entervixen kage no neko entervixen So the law set by a counrty to protect its citizens is not a law then? Interesting, I shall keep that in mind. It's a legal law vs a law of nature. So you did not say I'll be sure to be AS SPECIFIC as possible next time I'm talking about laws that aren't written on paper (as legal documents) that apply to people and/or witches. entervixen kage no neko To say it's a law would mean (to me at least) that there's no option to not follow it, that it'll affect you whether you like it or not. Like the law of gravity. Please elaborate on how one is fallible and the other is not. The law of gravity insists that things stay down (unless you can break gravity's pull with a space shuttle or something..). If the three fold "law" or the idea of following the rede's saying if it's not good, you shouldn't do it, if they were laws, they'd apply to all witches and magic users and people in general. They're not guaranteed like other laws of nature, therefore they're not laws. So how does the Wiccan Rede differ from a legality? They are both in place to protect people. One is governed by a system of people, one is governed by the universe.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:56 pm
kage no neko entervixen kage no neko It's that it's insulting to say that if you don't follow these rules, you're not a real witch. That's what she's trying to point out. She was saying that most "real" witches adhere to a certain principle of morality. Yes, morality is subjective. However, most people would agree that to harm another in any way, shape or form is "immoral". You can be a real witch without such, but it's something to keep in mind. Then you'd have to define harm. That alone raises all sorts of debates, including abortion and vegetarian. Is killing a fetus harmful? Is it harmful to kill a cow for it's beef? Is it a bad kind of harmful? Plus the rede says if it harms none, do what you will. It doesn't say anything about what if it does harm something. Just if it doesn't harm, do what you want. It doesn't say that if it harms something, you're not allowed to do it. It never specifies what happens if it is harmful. No, but neither does the law as applies in a courtroom setting. That is decided by a jury of your peers.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:59 pm
entervixen So how does the Wiccan Rede differ from a legality? They are both in place to protect people. One is governed by a system of people, one is governed by the universe. Save for the fact the universe is not a government in the same sense of the government of people. A government of people is fallible and is influenced easily by our morals. That's why here cannibalism is illegal, but in some other country it may be regular practice and perfectly fine and acceptable. It is not encompassing like a universal law, which would apply to everything within like a nature law, that it's guaranteed.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:00 pm
Jai Kali Maa
So you pull a post from a thread on healing while we're sitting here discussing how someone who doesn't adhere to the Neo-wiccan rede isn't really a witch, but as she's talking about how her craft is different, she's apparently trying to force her standards on everyone? I fail to see how my defense of my craft is forcing my standards on everyone, since this is the topic and the matter at hand.
And forgive me for offending you oh so greatly by trying to prevent an inexperienced healer from creating more issues for the person they were trying to heal. Next time, I'll just sit back and watch the ******** unfold. Because I certainly wouldn't want to offend anyone since obviously everyone seems to take every single "negative" thing as a personal attack.
But I'm not allowed to defend myself here when someone has obviously attacked me in a personal manner.
Your standards. They're askew.
Jai Maa Kali
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:00 pm
entervixen No, but neither does the law as applies in a courtroom setting. That is decided by a jury of your peers. Is that in response to me saying that morals differ, or at all is it responding to me saying that the wiccan rede doesn't ban doing thing that aren't good?
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:03 pm
kage no neko entervixen So how does the Wiccan Rede differ from a legality? They are both in place to protect people. One is governed by a system of people, one is governed by the universe. Save for the fact the universe is not a government in the same sense of the government of people. A government of people is fallible and is influenced easily by our morals. That's why here cannibalism is illegal, but in some other country it may be regular practice and perfectly fine and acceptable. It is not encompassing like a universal law, which would apply to everything within like a nature law, that it's guaranteed. But harm is harm. Regardless of whether or not you eat meat or support abortion (or cut your lawn) you can still cause harm. And how are we to define the universe's idea of harm? Perhaps our very existence is harmful. Does that mean we, as a sentient race, do not deserve what we have?
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:04 pm
entervixen kage no neko entervixen So how does the Wiccan Rede differ from a legality? They are both in place to protect people. One is governed by a system of people, one is governed by the universe. Save for the fact the universe is not a government in the same sense of the government of people. A government of people is fallible and is influenced easily by our morals. That's why here cannibalism is illegal, but in some other country it may be regular practice and perfectly fine and acceptable. It is not encompassing like a universal law, which would apply to everything within like a nature law, that it's guaranteed. But harm is harm. Regardless of whether or not you eat meat or support abortion (or cut your lawn) you can still cause harm. And how are we to define the universe's idea of harm? Perhaps our very existence is harmful. Does that mean we, as a sentient race, do not deserve what we have? I never stated that harm is bad though. So that would be a question to ask yourself.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:05 pm
ShionsAmethystGaze Jai Kali Maa
So you pull a post from a thread on healing while we're sitting here discussing how someone who doesn't adhere to the Neo-wiccan rede isn't really a witch, but as she's talking about how her craft is different, she's apparently trying to force her standards on everyone? I fail to see how my defense of my craft is forcing my standards on everyone, since this is the topic and the matter at hand.
And forgive me for offending you oh so greatly by trying to prevent an inexperienced healer from creating more issues for the person they were trying to heal. Next time, I'll just sit back and watch the ******** unfold. Because I certainly wouldn't want to offend anyone since obviously everyone seems to take every single "negative" thing as a personal attack.
But I'm not allowed to defend myself here when someone has obviously attacked me in a personal manner.
Your standards. They're askew.
Jai Maa Kali She was pointing out that most magical practitioners follow the Wiccan Rede or something similar because it helps remind us to not do harm as our actions affect more than just us. I went over with you the healing thing already, I brought it up because you asked for an instance where you were forcing your standards on others. I merely did as I was asked.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:07 pm
kage no neko entervixen kage no neko entervixen So how does the Wiccan Rede differ from a legality? They are both in place to protect people. One is governed by a system of people, one is governed by the universe. Save for the fact the universe is not a government in the same sense of the government of people. A government of people is fallible and is influenced easily by our morals. That's why here cannibalism is illegal, but in some other country it may be regular practice and perfectly fine and acceptable. It is not encompassing like a universal law, which would apply to everything within like a nature law, that it's guaranteed. But harm is harm. Regardless of whether or not you eat meat or support abortion (or cut your lawn) you can still cause harm. And how are we to define the universe's idea of harm? Perhaps our very existence is harmful. Does that mean we, as a sentient race, do not deserve what we have? I never stated that harm is bad though. So that would be a question to ask yourself. to harm is to hurt. whether it be yourself or something else, it creates disharmony. Disharmony has it's own vibration, spreading out much like the ripples in a pond when you throw in a pebble.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:09 pm
entervixen to harm is to hurt. whether it be yourself or something else, it creates disharmony. Disharmony has it's own vibration, spreading out much like the ripples in a pond when you throw in a pebble. I don't believe harm causes disharmony though, nor that it's a bad thing in any manner. I believe harm is helpful in many instances. I embrace the idea of harm, as well as the idea of helping. I don't think you can get through life without harming something/someone somehow. Nor do I think that harming something will come back to bite you just because it's harmful.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:10 pm
entervixen She was pointing out that most magical practitioners follow the Wiccan Rede or something similar because it helps remind us to not do harm as our actions affect more than just us. I went over with you the healing thing already, I brought it up because you asked for an instance where you were forcing your standards on others. I merely did as I was asked. Jai Kali Maa
So she did this by informing me that I'm an ignoramus, in a disrespectful manner no less, and I am in the wrong for defending myself?
She wasn't just saying that most witches follow something resembling the rede, she was saying that real witches do, and that therefore, anyone who did not follow something resembling the rede was not a real witch. She is not only being rude, but she is forcing her standards on me.
I fail to see how I am in the wrong for defending myself against harsh words.
Furthermore, I really don't see how by making known my worries and cares about what I've learned and know of healing that I am forcing my standards upon others. I'm merely adding just that, my fears and worries and what I have experienced of inexperienced healers attempting spells and healings without proper teaching. This is not forcing standards on anyone, it's being a worried, responsible healer. By insisting that I had no idea what I was talking about, and healing was infact ABC you were forcing your standards on me and generalizing about healing as well.
Jai Maa Kali
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:16 pm
kage no neko entervixen to harm is to hurt. whether it be yourself or something else, it creates disharmony. Disharmony has it's own vibration, spreading out much like the ripples in a pond when you throw in a pebble. I don't believe harm causes disharmony though, nor that it's a bad thing in any manner. I believe harm is helpful in many instances. I embrace the idea of harm, as well as the idea of helping. I don't think you can get through life without harming something/someone somehow. Nor do I think that harming something will come back to bite you just because it's harmful. If the harm is not interpreted as such then no, it is not harm. But most things do not respond in such a way. To be harmed, even by a friend, is to be hurt. It causes an imbalance in one of the five sheaths (those being Annamaya Kosha (Food Sheath), Pranamaya Kosha (Pranic or Energy Sheath), Manomaya Kosha (Mental or psycho-emotional Sheath), Vijnyanamaya Kosha (Intellectual Sheath), and Anandamaya Kosha (Bliss Sheath)). The imbalance spreads from one sheath to the others, causing more harm, more disharmony, which brings in illness. Then you have to take time to correct the imbalance, which takes time and effort. It is an exhausting, time consuming process. If you do not follow Eastern thought, that is fine, but other cultures have similar ideas which have similar consequences. I merely stated it in a fashion I can understand and thus present.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:16 pm
ShionsAmethystGaze entervixen She was pointing out that most magical practitioners follow the Wiccan Rede or something similar because it helps remind us to not do harm as our actions affect more than just us. I went over with you the healing thing already, I brought it up because you asked for an instance where you were forcing your standards on others. I merely did as I was asked. Jai Kali Maa
So she did this by informing me that I'm an ignoramus, in a disrespectful manner no less, and I am in the wrong for defending myself?
I fail to see how I am in the wrong for defending myself against harsh words.
Jai Maa Kali She did not call you that. She merely stated that you can potentially harm someone by not observing how your actions affect others.
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:18 pm
entervixen If the harm is not interpreted as such then no, it is not harm. But most things do not respond in such a way. To be harmed, even by a friend, is to be hurt. It causes an imbalance in one of the five sheaths (those being Annamaya Kosha (Food Sheath), Pranamaya Kosha (Pranic or Energy Sheath), Manomaya Kosha (Mental or psycho-emotional Sheath), Vijnyanamaya Kosha (Intellectual Sheath), and Anandamaya Kosha (Bliss Sheath)). The imbalance spreads from one sheath to the others, causing more harm, more disharmony, which brings in illness. Then you have to take time to correct the imbalance, which takes time and effort. It is an exhausting, time consuming process. If you do not follow Eastern thought, that is fine, but other cultures have similar ideas which have similar consequences. I merely stated it in a fashion I can understand and thus present. I completely fail to understand, lol. But that's okay. I guess we should just agree to disagree on the idea of harm being harmful. But do you have any reply at all to the idea that the wiccan rede does not forbid harm?
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