Welcome to Gaia! ::

A bunch of you are, no offense, seriously naive. Every country claims that they are the best. OF COURSE YOU THINK YOUR COUNTRY'S WAYS NEED TO BE EVERYONE'S WAYS! America was thinking they were perfect, always. Even with the slavery. Even with denying women the vote. Even with the interim camps they made. Even with the Israeli conflict, where 1 million are trapped between Egypt that doesn't help them, and illegally established and military-enforced posts that prevent all a small amount of humanitarian aid into the region.

But forget my personal opinions, because I know most of you will rationalize it as "Oh they're all terrorists they deserve it" or "If we treat them like humans they'll kill us". Forget the things that I personally don't approve of.
Are any of you willing to believe that there could be something you don't believe in could possibly be the truth? That something you take a fundemental stand against could possibly NEED to be what is done? No, and neither are the people that disagree with you.

Iraq? Do you think it's okay to blow an entire country to shambles and leave them? The quality of life was worse when we initially came in, even with the dictatorship that Saddam had instilled. To just leave because it is starting to be a pain in our asses is to tell all those people who lost their homes and families that it just isn't worth helping to give back what we took from them. It's selfish. You make a mistake and you fix it. If you don't fix it, you can't claim to be the defenders of justice and all that crap.

Fighting the Koreans and their nukes is a big deal. It has to be done, even if it is done by the idiots in Washington. Just like stopping nukes is an obligation, however, so must we stop genocide in Darfur or Russia or even in Turkey (I'm turkish, so it's a big deal I'm saying this). And quite frankly, just like we need to stop people like Saddam from imposing his will upon the people of the country, we need to stop idiots that would impose their will on other countries.

Also, I'm offended by Vajapocalypse's connection of imposing the "American way" on the middle east and stopping North Korea. These are seperate issues, and your reply reeks of a lack of actual knowledge on the subject. Allowing an Islamic government to rule in an area of mostly Muslims will not give NK any boons to starting nuklear warfare.

But, oh, maybe I'm biased. MY mother being born and raised in America as a Christian and converting to Islam by her own realization of the futility of the current mindset, and my dad being an immigrant from Turkey that supported the right to follow religion in a country that is now so strict against Islam that a woman is not allowed to cover in colleges, perhaps I'm a bit biased. I don't have the rights you guys have, because I'm a muslim. I shouldn't have the right to support the government that follows the same ideology that I live by because you guys have your government that follows your ideology. The fact that America was founded by Christian principals is perfectly okay, but a country that attempts to honor the ideas of it's people like yours did isn't allowed, since we aren't you. We're us, so it's okay to drop a hecka bombs and claim victory a day later, because there never was a goal in the first place.

I must be biased. Also will edit any mistakes I find, now that I'm done.

Not insulting your intelligence, but your short reply implicates a connection. Also, I'd like to point out I kick puppies as a hobby.

1: Actually, yes. Instead of giving bullies new toys to blow stuff up with I'd rather leave them ruined after they screw up. We're defenders of justice NOT BABYSITTERS.
2: If we can't have nukes because they make fun of us then they sure in HELL aren't gonna have nukes made for nothing but war.
Equality means your gonna have just as many (or few) nukes as we do. I sure hope I'm not elected president because I'm one of those hardcore 40's Americans, and all that squabbling of the figureheads with edited baseball hats would be ended in one week flat, as violently as necessary. Of course if I were president and war affairs were up to me, every wrongdoing country in the world would probably call us the Relentless justice Borg and hide under a rock. Don't mess with my America.

Tell me how they were a threat. Tell me how Iraq was anything more than a scapegoat that America could channel their fear and hatred into after the events of 9/11. The fact the man was a dictator means nothing, there are far worse dudes running governments. Russia still dreams of imperial dominance, China is the Fricken "Red Menace", Iran has a holocaust denier as a president, Afganistan is currently in the hands of warlords that we trust for handing over innocent men as terrorists for gitmo detention.

Who are the bullies CHOZO? The only people we are arming are the military that we approved of being a democracy like us. The only way you can say we are arming bullies is that your continued ignorance about the actual facts of the issue is simply more ammunition for recruiting terrorists.

Do you think a terrorist is inherently evil? That you are born into a country with constant fighting, people you know being killed by people for other countries' benefit? Can you believe in them when they do not believe in you? I do not mean to advocate terrorism, but how the hell do you think Osama even got his power in the first place? How about the fact that we armed his overly militant islamic groups to fight Russia during the cold war, and once Russia was defeated we ignored the area. Oh, 50 years later they've turned on us. Oh well, let's just kill them. Let's not forget how during the Iraqi-Irani war, for an entire year we funded one side, and then the next year we funded the other side. Much like the "100 Years War", while having a very large death toll, ended up ultimately strengthening both countries.

DAMMIT, WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU FACTS? EVERYTHING I CLAIM CAN BE FOUND RECORDED IN BOOKS. ASK YOUR HISTORY TEACHER, AND THEY CAN CONFIRM IT. YOU ARE JUST LISTENING TO WHAT THE MEDIA AND POLITICIANS MOUTH FEED YOU, AND IT IS DOING NOTHING BUT HARM FOR BOTH YOU AND THOSE THAT ARE BEING ATTACKED.

Your America is a stupid America. It is no different than any other dictatorship, except that you believe you are right, which everyone does. If you get your America, I, along with anyone else with half a brain, will be your opposition. Might I remind you that the American Revolution was fought over the ability to have adequate representation in the government, as brittain treated them as second class citizens. Your idea of patriotism defies the very spirit of the movement that it was founded. Go read over the text of the constitution and the bill of rights again. It's an interesting read.

Now, Val, I would rather the troops be pulled out of Iraq because they're doing more harm than good right now. My point is that America SHOULDN'T have quit. You need to think of these things. The dude that claimed that it would not take months but years in Iraw was forced to resign, remember that? No one wanted to listen. However, any country that wishes to base even some sort of law on Islam has been heavily opposed, to the point where only radicals can pursue the position. It was said at first that Iraq would not be allowed to have things from the Kuran as part of law, and after a few months, when they people had protested enough to show they WANTED it, Bush caved and said if that's what they wanted, that is what they would get. Also, I apologize for seeming unbecoming. It is just that the media de-humanizes us. I wanted people to know that we are people with feelings too, not some sort of enemy. I won't do it again, as that would be just annoying.

At Vaja: My apologies, sincerely. I attacked you when you didn't deserve attacking. You know how you click post a reply, and on the bottum you can scroll down to see the posts? Well I sorta combined yours with another persons, so that name drop wasn't neccessary at all. I've checked over it again and I'm not quite sure what I did. I use the highlight tool to scroll down and I must have did something to change where I was at, so I read things wrong.

I'd also like to make a disclaimer that even though I heavily oppose some of your political views and hope to change your ideas slightly for the better, I show no animosity towards any of you. Outside the threads where the topic is relevant, I will neither mention nor hold you responsible for any of your beliefs. You're all good conversation and if I didn't really care I wouldn't be posting. So if you end up hating me, I am sorry. Remember not to take it personally.

Alright, I'm not going to argue with you on this Cho. I think the irony of your statement will be lost on you, so I'm not going to bother explaining it to you here. I don't hate America, just people like you. Is killing okay because they are other countries? What if it was done by someone in your town?

Why is it, that if a man kills another man in battle it's called heroic; yet if he kills a man in the heat of passion, it's called murder?
Get the reference and you are awesome.
Do not think that being overly aggressive is what will protect you. As I mentioned before, Al Queda was essentially created by the Americans during the cold war. The hatred people feel within their hearts is due to being abandoned and bullied. I'm not shouting DEATH TO AMERICA, I'm telling you guys not to be so damn violent! Quit confusing the two, because if you are unable to admit when you do wrong.

I am not sure what your grandfather taught you, and I see no reason for me to argue about what he may have passed on to you. However, I can certainly take issue with what you say and seem to do. It just makes me sad that there are people like you that can't see the bigger picture.

NOW, YOU FAILED TO SUPPLY A REAL REASON THAT THE PEOPLE WERE THREATS. YOU HAVE NOT SUPPORTED THE CLAIM THAT YOU ARE ARMING BULLIES ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT THEY MIGHT DISAPPROVE OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY BOMBED THEM.
Unless you can elaborate with more than just rhetoric, I refuse to respond to you on this topic. I apologize, but I want more than just your personal opinion when it comes to the millions of people that are being killed.

I'm turkish. They're a democracy, and an ally of America. Not Arabic, and I don't have any dictators, aside from the President of the United States of America, where I currently live.

Also, this isn't a matter of which side is right and which side is wrong. You cannot shove blame onto one side completely. Hitler gained his power because Germany was forced to take humiliating blame for WWI. Of course the people that do these evil things cannot be excused. However, the people of the world to need be vigilant against letting these ideologies spread. If both sides feel the need to claim the other is wrong, neither will ever settle anything.

Also, that was totally a Wayne's World quote. IT WAS A JOKE. We can all be internet buddies, even if we disaggre on politics.

Good. Well, I think I admitted that there was the armenian genocide, so that's pretty much the biggest thing people know about us.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about anymore, I'm just making replies. Essentially, my points are that no one should believe their viewpoint is more important than anothers, no one should force them, and international needs and customs are so varied that we need to respect them, rather than impose our own. I mean, japan censors their porn. Who really wants censored porn?