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 Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:10 pm
TvIaMsOqTuHeYz I'm not trying to say that Cobra is abusing it, I'm saying that it could be very much abused by anyone else. So if we ever so slightly nerf it, so that it only grows your speed by three ranks, then people won't be shooting around at A rank as a Genin, killing people in an exam if we ever have on of those again. I mean I like Shinji, I like that he is a tank of an unstoppable mass of flesh. Cobra does a great job of not spamming moves, or just one shotting opponents. He does this wonderfully! But others wouldn't be so apt to pull a death punch.
...there are only 3 people allowed to be Konaga in the entire guild. This has so far, and will likely continue to mitigate your concern of abuse from other Konaga.
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:24 pm
Cobra_X TvIaMsOqTuHeYz I'm not trying to say that Cobra is abusing it, I'm saying that it could be very much abused by anyone else. So if we ever so slightly nerf it, so that it only grows your speed by three ranks, then people won't be shooting around at A rank as a Genin, killing people in an exam if we ever have on of those again. I mean I like Shinji, I like that he is a tank of an unstoppable mass of flesh. Cobra does a great job of not spamming moves, or just one shotting opponents. He does this wonderfully! But others wouldn't be so apt to pull a death punch.
...there are only 3 people allowed to be Konaga in the entire guild. This has so far, and will likely continue to mitigate your concern of abuse from other Konaga.But should you ever stop playing, will the Konaga simply cease to exist? I know becoming a Konaga is hard, extremely hard. But I'm good at showing theoretical knowledge of things, but in an actual RP situation, I apparently can't function correctly. I could write up an excellent Konaga bloodline app, but I'm sure you'd not allow me to play it because I might misuse something, or misinterpret something as being stronger than it should be. Just because someone can make a nice application, doesn't mean that they are good users of what they are applying for. Thorough or not, chances are you might allow someone through with a nice pretty looking app, and then they just blunder it up.
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:50 pm
That, Timmy, is why the crew continues to monitor not just applications, but the actual RP as well. If you make a downright beautiful app and get yourself a Konaga, that's great. If you turn around and start godmodding around and murdering people with your incredible power, I will turn that RPC into a spray of gore faster than you can blink.
Rules and restrictions can only go so far. Too enforced, and nothing can ever get done. I could pile so many rules on a thing that you couldn't even dream of misusing it. But would anyone ever actually use it? Probably not. I know I wouldn't, because too many restrictions kill creativity, which then kills the RP. Having crew ready to crack down on any misuse however, solves the issue without piling on restrictions.
If you ever see anyone at all abusing an ability in some way, feel free to report them to myself or any other member of crew. That's what we're here for.
(If Cobra leaves, Konaga probably will cease to exist actually. I nearly did call for their removal the last time he disappeared because nobody else was truly knowledgeable enough about them to truly judge the apps.)
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:00 pm
I should also mention that I'm not going to/can't post until the issues with Luo's post are resolved, since as it currently stands it's more important for Shinji to respond than David.
(Basically I'm relinquishing my place in the posting order to Cobra for this round, and will follow his lead since there's really not much David can do to help or harm in the meantime while they're having their close quarters match.)
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:14 pm
Quote: He didn't look familiar, he didn't even look like he had any of the physical features natural to a citizen. Was he from here, or did he come here after something happened? Was he the child of a merchant moved to the village, or was he a refugee from the fall of a lesser village? There were a great many questions based solely off the fact that Enro had very few physical traits that an indigenous citizen would have. Noticed this, and I have to say Timmy, it's wrong. Ethically because you're trying to use his physical appearance to discern points about his back story without any right to that information, for what I can only assume to be because he mentioned it in his post. But mainly because it's, well, wrong. His character looks at least 90% more like a natural citizen of a desert community such as Suna would, than your own. (Or in fact, almost any of the other Suna RPCs...) Pale white skin is both abnormal, and rather dangerous to have in a desert. Abnormal because of tanning, and dangerous because light skin burns in the sun quite easily. A desert born individual will very commonly have darker skin, whether by genetics, or by years of tanning. (And really, any other physical trait wouldn't matter much, given that most that aren't purely genetic and possible anywhere, could be applied to anyone with the right circumstances.)
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:24 pm
I'm not saying I go around killing things, not at all. But say I misinterpret an ability, such as when Misa taught me the Suna style. You know I didn't have a solid understanding or the techniques, even though I was taught. With Cobra around in the village, I'd probably be more likely to have this remedied, but a person in Leaf might not, but is that really a viable reason to turn it into a pile of mushy blood and guts? Especially if the character is a degenerate, and uses brute force when encountered with an opponent, so they just augment and punch without thinking? Terrible character idea for a Konaga, or maybe an amazing one as he would be considered to be using his own strength to project his own pain onto others.
But in my own experience, sometimes the crew does a somewhat poor job of explaining why something is misused. It might have been because I was younger, but I couldn't ever really wrap my head around some of the stuff you guys explained to me, that's why I had such a difficult time. You guys are more geared to explain things to someone with more experience with Naruto and such than someone like who I was who had little experience roleplaying outside of the D20 system where my characters could do amazing things. ( A starter character I had once could kill an ogre with a shuriken. ) So my creativity was stifled because I'm not used to such restrictions on a starter character. I'm used to being able to do amazing things at the beginning, and then doing things much more amazing as they grow stronger. I'd say I've gotten better about it, and the crew has gotten better at explaining things too.
As for Konaga leaving, I don't think they should. I mean given enough time, I'm sure you'd be able to take them over, or anyone really. It would just require that Cobra tell them explicitly what they are capable of.
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:35 pm
Hinote Tosatsu Quote: He didn't look familiar, he didn't even look like he had any of the physical features natural to a citizen. Was he from here, or did he come here after something happened? Was he the child of a merchant moved to the village, or was he a refugee from the fall of a lesser village? There were a great many questions based solely off the fact that Enro had very few physical traits that an indigenous citizen would have. Noticed this, and I have to say Timmy, it's wrong. Ethically because you're trying to use his physical appearance to discern points about his back story without any right to that information, for what I can only assume to be because he mentioned it in his post. But mainly because it's, well, wrong. His character looks at least 90% more like a natural citizen of a desert community such as Suna would, than your own. (Or in fact, almost any of the other Suna RPCs...) Pale white skin is both abnormal, and rather dangerous to have in a desert. Abnormal because of tanning, and dangerous because light skin burns in the sun quite easily. A desert born individual will very commonly have darker skin, whether by genetics, or by years of tanning. (And really, any other physical trait wouldn't matter much, given that most that aren't purely genetic and possible anywhere, could be applied to anyone with the right circumstances.) Most of the villagers are probably fairly pale, due to either being wrapped up in cloth so often, or from being inside. In the show itself quite a few of them are more pale than even the Leaf shinobi. And as for desert people being tan, they've achieved that through genetics. If I placed a fellow Irishman in a desert, they could wrap themselves up and retain their skin color for their entire lifetime. As long as they stayed hydrated, they'd never have to remove the wrapping. Plus, the land of the Wind is unusually windy, so the wind chill probably keeps the desert at 90-99 degrees. So by standing in shade, they'd be able to shave off another 10-20 degrees. The sand also seems to blow around the village often, so they'd remain covered, mostly except for their eyes. The fact that our characters aren't cloaked at all times would make them insanely dark, and prone to heat stroke. Also, as for other physical attributes, they do matter greatly. Desert dwellers would have gaunt faces, and sunken eyes. This is due to the face gaunt flesh won't be damaged as much as full by a sand blast, and sunken eyes will be even more protected from the elements. Not to mention he's probably sitting out in the open and in the sun. Any indigenous person would avoid doing so unless necessary, even if they wished to avoid the horrible wails of pain and rivers of blood in a building. That being said, I'll edit it anyway, since I see your point. EDIT: actually, I'll omit that since he is probably wanting Natsumi instead of us to notice him. He is injured, although I don't really know what from. ^^" I'd like ot do one more expedition into Sunagakure to rescue people before I have Raphael sit down and rest a bit. I'd like it if he could get a bit of practice in, but he really doesn't have much he can do on that front, he is kinda broke. sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:01 pm
Cobra_X I would like to note that despite all this discussion, Shinji will still be moving as fast as he is in his most recent attack.
So Luo, you still need to answer for my qualms with your last response. You can't use that technique without hand seals and honestly, you don't have the time to initiate another technique before Shinji's attack is made.
...please respond in some manner, either by editing your post, or explaining why you think you have the time to accomplish what you want.
Thanks. Alright, I've had a busy weekend but I'll be damned if I don't reply to this within the 48 hour time cap I've given myself. When David moves sand out of the air as you are running towards me, do you think Jishaku just doesn't pay attention or do you think him pointing and shooting with his arm would honestly take that long? To even legitimize the move, I actually reduced the speed of the technique you created because: 1. I honestly don't believe that technique should move at SS-rank without any sort of charge time as it is currently written. 2. Really, that was about it. I REALLY don't know how either of the VC's or myself didn't notice how that jutsu was written. It is an insane amount of speed for a jutsu, and although you go into the construction of the bullet itself you don't outright say that this jutsu has any sort of charge time. So essentially, you gave the jiton bloodline a jutsu that fires at an SS-rank of speed for 20 CP. This clearly needs to be fixed. Moving past this, my post states that while David moves the sand, I just as well move my arm. Meaning, that by the time the bridge is constructed and you step onto it, my arm is already up and ready to shoot. And at the moment you step onto the bridge that was made, I shot. I don't see where the time discrepancy is. Also, lets review the fact that you are behind me without giving any indication as to how you got there in the first place (because no one can just outright teleport in this guild, it's absurd), or how you got there and struck without falling into a pit that is circular in nature. Your legs are moving at AC, but your arms are not. Meaning, even if for some really odd reason I had to go back and edit my post, Jishaku could still dodge your chakra knife without sustaining serious injury. However, the fact remains I have not stepped out of bounds on the time factor here, seeing as how a bridge has to be made before you get there, and clearly a sunaton user or anyone for that matter, would notice a huge cloud of sand migrating to form a bridge. Sand doesn't move that fast, and as much control as David has over it, I doubt the speed it moves at would surpass his own ranked speed. So I would still be faster.
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:00 pm
This is just getting ridiculous. Do you guys relize that you're arguing about the speed of my legs as compared to the speed of my arms? Is this an RP battle with ninjas?... or are we trying to recreate actual fights with real battle statistics?
...Ive talked to you before about this jutsu at length and still you dont get it. There are many techniques, your sand shark for instance which acts like a Jounin speed jutsu as a D-rank... and other examples of techniques which act as faster then their level by design.Why cant Tekouden be the same? Its designed as a barrier breaker, something that penetrates even the strongest barrier... thats why it has the speed it has.
If you guys disagree then fine, but the technique was reviewed, modified, and accepted... so take it up with the appprover before harassing me. As to telepporting... hes not teleporting, hes moving fast, i thought that would be assumed... but I guess its not... I suppose none of us have ever seen a fight between ninja where someone moving really fast just seems to disappear and then appear behind someone... Oh wait... that happens all the time.
And on top of all of that... again, as we discussed previously, Tekkouden cannot simply be performed by raising the hand and shooting... it requires hand seals. All Jiton specialized ninjutsu require hand seals. If this was not specified in the bloodline, i will edit it... but as the creator of the bloodline... they require hand seals.
You do not have time to perform the hand seals and initiate the attack before you have to respond to Shinji's attack.
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:05 pm
If I may, the discrepancy falls in the lack of hand seals used. I ignored that in the last jutsu you used, since it was of low enough rank to where I simply assumed you had the proper profession benefit to remove them (The reason I asked for a list, actually.), but it's impossible for that benefit to effect an S ranked jutsu, weakened or not.
So, considering the requirement of hand seals, (And also considering it's an S ranked jutsu, if we had any actual system for seals it'd likely be a long chain.), the question of whether you have time to perform the jutsu is valid. Simply raising your arm is nothing, I agree, and having all the sand right there as described also helps, since the jutsu can just grab it rather than drawing from a source, but actually forming seals calls for a bit more time.
(I'm also inclined to think that my sand probably moves at or slightly below the rank of my sand "affinity". It does make sense after all, and I'd say the same about any freestyle manipulation of iron sand, using the jiton affinity, so long as there isn't an actual system within said bloodline. It's little points like this that make me consider further revising the demons as they come up.)
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:06 pm
My sand shark moved that fast because that's how the jutsu is written. It moves +1.5 ranks higher than the user's speed, you can go look at that jutsu if you'd like for yourself. And it isn't so much the speed I'm concerned with as I mentioned in my previous post, it's the fact that it can be fired at such a speed with no charge time listed. THAT'S my concern. Having a charge time on that jutsu gives me a little leeway to assume that if someone didn't feasibly figure out a way to dodge it by the time you charged it, a jiton specialist would be capable of firing a technique of such speed. So no Cobra, you didn't seem to understand what I was getting at. I don't believe I'm harassing you because if I were I think I'd be a lot more cruel and I'd presumably attempt to get in touch with you every chance I could to fix it. I merely brought it up, and this is my first time doing so.
And what I said about teleporting you also seemed to misconstrue. What I was getting at, was that I already KNOW you are moving super fast. However, that does not mean that your feet do not touch the ground in the process of moving. And since I KNOW you aren't teleporting, I ask again how you got from in front of me to behind me without one of those steps causing you to fall into a pit that has no footing anywhere save for under my own feet and the bridge Hinote built for you.
Finally, no Cobra this jutsu does not state that it requires hand seals. The way you wrote it in fact, seems to really really hint towards it being as easy as pointing and shooting after the bullet is made.
Read for yourself and tell me the way this is written doesn't suggest in the slightest that the most time-consuming task in the entirety of this jutsu is the creation of the bullet:
Tekkoudan (Armor Piercing Ammunition) - [Offensive] - [S-rank] - [Requires 1/4 of a Unit]
An incredibly dangerous, long range attack, the Tekkoudan is an attack utilizing a small bullet of Iron Sand shot at incredible speeds which can penetrate even the strongest barriers. Holding their hand as if they were firing a gun, with the index and middle fingers pointing towards the target, a small collection of Iron Sand gathers and forms an incredibly dense round of ammunition, about 1 inch in diameter. Building a careful balance in magnetic forces in front of and behind the Iron Sand Bullet, the bullet begins to spin rapidly as it is re-shaped, shrinking to about half an inch, but elongating slightly while sharpened to a point... the tip of the bullet sharpened almost to the atomic level. Ramping up the forces, the bullet spins faster and faster, until the user suddenly releases the front magnetic field, which releases the bullet as it shoots forward in a straight path.
The combined speed, sharpness, and torque of the bullet makes the ammunition nigh unstoppable, allowing it to penetrate any barrier. Evading the bullet is the only way to avoid damage, but that is no easy feat as the bullet moves at SS-ranked speeds or higher. The only good part about being hit by the bullet is that there is no chance of it ricocheting off bone, as the speed of the bullet guarantees a 'through-and-through' shot. The bad news however is that it can easily puncture a lung, the heart, or shatter a bone that it passes through, and is very commonly fatal in the hands of a practiced user.
You re-wrote the bloodline yes, and you also wrote these jutsu with specifics as to whether or not they required hand seals (For the most part, there's two or three in there that just seem obvious enough to need hand seals.). This is why I'm having a hard time with me all of a sudden needing hand seals for this specific jutsu that seems to have been written without any intention of seals while the others state clearly within the first sentence usually, that they require seals.
Lastly, Cobra I don't like to be talked down to in a sarcastic manner, especially when throughout this process I've been as communicative as well as reserved as possible. This: "but I guess its not... I suppose none of us have ever seen a fight between ninja where someone moving really fast just seems to disappear and then appear behind someone... Oh wait... that happens all the time."
This is unnecessary. And I'd really appreciate it if you approached me as well as this situation without sarcasm coming into play.
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:49 pm
If we use the lack of reference to seals to claim seals aren't needed, almost none of the jutsu in the guild require seals. the required seals should only change according to mention in the description (Or lack thereof), if the description explicitly states that seals aren't needed, or explains a specific sequence, and so on. A lack of any mention should be taken to mean they are required, not that they aren't. Because really, including references to using seals in every jutsu would just be an extra hassle and unnecessary extra sentence or two thrown in.
Edit: Just going to throw this out there, but with my current position as head of custom jutsu, and whatever power that entails, I will never allow an S rank jutsu usable without any seals, or, for that matter, any bonus allowing a character to use jutsu of that rank without seals. Because the ability to insta-cast a jutsu capable of ending a fight in a single move, usually in the form of a killing by pure power, is just too much.
@Cobra: I'm also curious as to the method of your positioning. As stated by Luo, there's no footing available other than the bridge and Luo's platform (Which, by the jutsu description, is only big enough for his feet.) for you to have used to maneuver yourself. I can only think of two methods for it to work, one of which requires interaction directly with Jishaku, and the other would take plenty of time for him to just move out of the way. The second would also be a bit difficult to claim as near instantaneous too... That being to jump all the way out of the pit area and bounce around the edges and back in.
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Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:43 pm
Im sorry that I used such harsh tone in my arguments, you're right, you don't deserve to be talked to in that way and I apologize.
Allow me to say that the part about appearing behind you was a misunderstanding on my part. I thought that David had created a platform of sand over the entire pit, so going behind you would have been possible. I have edited my post/attack position accordingly.
However, as to your point on the hand seals, and I have mentioned this to you several times... I will admit that the use of hand seals is not specified... but as Hinote mentioned, this should not indicate that they are not needed, quite the opposite really.
Just to reiterate... I am officially telling you that you NEED hand seals to use that jutsu. That is simply the way it is. You can not execute that technique before Shinji gets to you... and honestly, in fairness to me and my post, you should really just respond to my attack without assuming you have time for another technique.
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:44 am
Hinote Tosatsu Edit: Just going to throw this out there, but with my current position as head of custom jutsu, and whatever power that entails, I will never allow an S rank jutsu usable without any seals, or, for that matter, any bonus allowing a character to use jutsu of that rank without seals. Because the ability to insta-cast a jutsu capable of ending a fight in a single move, usually in the form of a killing by pure power, is just too much. Cobra_X Username: Cobra_X
RPC Name: Oniwa,Kye
RPC Rank: Kage
Talent Description: "Satetsu Prodigy" - Kye does not require the use of hand seals to initiate her Satetsu techniques or any specialized Satetsu Ninjutsu. All techniques are triggered at will and require no specific movements or incantations to activate. Additionally, Kye has developed an ability to channel Raiton chakra through her Iron Sand techniques so long as part of the construct created is touching her body... an ability which is usually only reserved for Sakin branch Jiton users.
Talent Sacrifice: Kye only has one arm. This has drastically altered her life in a variety of ways, which for many years limited what she was capable of achieving and continues to limit her in many, despite the ways she has developed to overcome the missing limb.
How it happened: Born to a poor family in the Rice Country during a warring period, Kye was born with only one arm and has struggled to survive her entire life. The ability to control Iron Sand had always been within her, but had never manifested itself until triggered by an immense trauma in her life. After this event however, as she saw the iron Sand floating around her, seemingly without any instruction, Kye began to reach out to the sand, only to see it follow the movements of her hand. Initially, Kye had no idea what was happening, but over time, she found that she was capable of wielding the Iron Sand with great proficiency and developed the skill naturally.
After years of studying as a shinobi, Kye eventually realized that her innate ability to control Iron Sand had been drawing from her chakra the whole time. Through vast amounts of research, Kye found that her chakra was uniquely linked to the electrical impulses of her brain, her thoughts alone automatically creating the necessary electrical/magnetic fields which allowed her to manipulate the Iron Sand into any shape she wished, simply by thinking about it. After years of studying, Kye was able to use these discoveries to further advance her abilities, allowing her to channel her Raiton chakra through her Iron Sand in a way normally only Sakin branch Jiton users could... further solidifying her position as a born Satetsu prodigy.
 You already have. Kye's talent allows her to use any Jiton ability at will, without handsigns, and without even saying the name of the technique. She doesn't even have to move. So I'm going to just say that you've already lied right there. Maybe you forgot, but you did approve it. She has one arm, but that doesn't mean she can't do handsigns still. Maybe the talent should have been revised so she had to use handsigns with one hand, rather than at will shooting things in the face, or using any other jiton technique she could ever want to. You allowed a broken version of Magneto into this. Essentially she is the Ichibi of Satetsu, with only one arm which she had since creation and Cobra seemed fine with it then. Even Magneto had to look at what he was doing, and move his body, She just thinks it. Kye could oneshot someone and they'd never know. One person could stand there, and then behind them a bullet forms and shoots them in the back of the skull. She has no limit to where she needs to cast these things, and she doesn't have to give any indication of using any technique. This is completely and utterly broken. EDIT: I was just going to sit this one out, since I'm not well respected, but you blatantly lied right there. And as far as I'm concerned, Cobra has no say so in if a technique has the requirement of handsigns or not, his character that uses the bloodline has no need for handsigns, or even incantations! Essentially, in my opinion the crew has full range of if the technique requires anything of the sort of had signs. Hinote has more claim to if it needs hand signs than Cobra does in my novice opinion, since Cobra took a broken way out with a pre-existing condition as the only weakness. It would be like if I made Laxus capable of learning another element simply because his hair is blonde, or he has a hot temper. EDIT EDIT: You know, now that I think about it, You've approved quite a bit of Cobra's things that some of the crew and even some of the members can clearly see is broken, or over powered. Be it slightly, or in the case of Kye auto-casting death moves, extremely broken. I'm sorry Hinote, but as a member I'd like it if you'd refrain from approving any more of Cobra's customs. If you wish to ignore this, I'm asking at least one of the other crew members to look back at what Hinote has approved for Cobra and please tell me if you believe that it is all just me misunderstanding things.
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:12 am
I'm starting to get really upset with people saying that I do nothing but create OP abilities/characters and have no regards for the rules or processes. This used to be a place where I could come to RP and relax... now it's become nothing but a constant fight and it's getting really tiresome.
Look at the whole context of the character and try to see where those abilities are needed.
Kye doesn't use ninjutsu... at least not in a way that anyone, has ever seen. She's never used it in a public fight and mostly people assume she can't even use it. Her not having to use hand seals is essentially to her character and background... and it doesn't make her any better then what most people can do... it just makes her more secretive and more ninja.
Show me a place where I've abused my Satetsu talent, go ahead... find a single instance of Kye doing ANYTHING that breaks the RP, ruins a situation with OP abilities, or abuses that talent.
Until you can... my talent is justified. Rules are there to prevent people who can't control or balance themselves appropriately in an RP. Show me where I haven't done that with Kye, and then you might have a point.
You'll notice that even though Kye could silently and easily kill most people she wants... she never has. That's called control and a respect for the RP.
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