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| Who did cloud like |
| Tifa |
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47% |
[ 118 ] |
| Aries |
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50% |
[ 125 ] |
| Yuffie |
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2% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 249 |
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 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:44 am
kick_your_ass It's the player that chooses who Cloud will fall in love with. My opinion: In the past, Cloud wanted to impress Tifa so he must have loved her.
I think that while you can say that FFVII was "left up to the interpretation of the player", it is pretty clear who the creators of Final Fantasy consider the true and intended couple of FFVII. When asked what he wanted to portray in KH, Nomura stated that he wanted to show that people were not physically connected and that, even when apart, people could still be connected. In other words, Nomura wanted to show a connection of the spiritual kind, a connection of the soul. He wanted to show that, even though people are apart, they can still be together. This is shown with Sora and Kairi in KH, and it was shown with Cloud and Aerith in FFVII (Cloud was able to feel Aerith's presence in the Lifestream after she was killed, Cloud was able to speak with Aerith in his dreams-- both are symbols of soul mates to the Japanese) and FFVII: AC (Cloud and Aerith were shown to have a very deep bond and it was confirmed by the creators (FFVII: AC -Reunion Files-) that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside Cloud).
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:50 am
I think it's either Tifa or Aeris but not Yuffie, she stole materia! scream but I think it's Tifa.
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:01 am
soadshuyin I have to dip into this conversation. It may be older, but its something that I can take head on and really want to. The CloTi fans must have a true representative. Im analysing what youve written Pink, and most of it is a skewed, opinionated view. Ill start around where you started then. Cloud and Aeris, being put together because Aeris saw Zack in Cloud. That is a very true thing. There was no individual for her to like outside of that. Pretty much everything we saw in the game was Zack being imprinted on Cloud, which shows a lot as to why Aeris was attracted to him. Cloud didnt become himself again, which was a completely different person from the Zack oriented person we saw through most of the game, until after Aeris was gone. So what do you think Aeris wouldve done once Cloud became Cloud again? Moving along, Tifa and Cloud in childhood. Sure, Tifa didnt have feelings for the little spiky haired kid we see, but Cloud sure as hell loved her. He would do anything to get her attention but avoided the other kids she hung around with. When she went off into a dangerous situation and her friends abandoned her, he stayed, and afterwards took the fall for the entire thing, being blamed and outcasted even more by the entire town. But he still remained affectionate of Tifa, even though him trying to help her led to himself being blamed for an act of evil by the entire town. Cloud then decided to join SOLDIER, because he wanted to prove himself to the town, that he wasnt a screwup. He also went so that he could impress Tifa. By calling her out there to the well that night, Cloud took a step a lot of people couldnt, and showed that he had feelings for her, and wanted to not be hated, as he believed he was. Tifa didnt know Cloud that well, but after they promised something, she became commited towards Cloud. Cloud was gone, but Tifa checked the papers everyday for the signs of her hero, but the newspapers wouldnt report anything on Cloud, who had failed to attain his true dream due to things he couldnt control, his weakness towards Mako. Then came the Nibelham incident, where Sephiroth went crazy and took everything from Cloud. Well, Tifa hadnt been taken at the time, and Cloud was hovering over her, wishing she would come to from the slash she had taken from Sephiroth. Cloud had already ended Sephiroth, or so he thought, so his attention was immediately drawn to Tifa. Not his best friend who was lying ontop of a compressed Mako chamber, but Tifa. He got her out of the way and was doing what he could, which wasnt a whole lot he could do, to help her. Then Sephiroth came back out of Jenovas chamber and Cloud stood up to him face to face this time, and was nearly beaten, but succeded out of sheer willpower. Cloud then blacked out, and was taken away, with no knowledge of what happened to Tifa or Sephiroth, only that he was alive and Zack was next to him. 5 years passed with only those two knowing each others fate, and Cloud ended up in Midgar after the shooting of his friend, with no recolection of how he got there, or what had happened prior to that moment. And Tifa found him. Cloud had no idea that he thought she was dead. He was in a partial coma for the past 5 years. With no recollection of anything that had happened, I dont think its fair to accuse Cloud of believing Tifa was dead. He only knew that Nibelham was gone and Sephiroth was to blame. Now, onto your examples from Advent Children. Cloud chose not to tell Tifa or express his sickness with her because he saw himself as too weak to do so. He wouldnt be able to help them in his condition. He saw it as he wasnt strong enough to save Aeris and Zack, so how could he protect those still there that he cared about. So he seperated himself, outcasted himself, which was something he always did from childhood. Cloud didnt want to burden anyone else with his sickness, so he secluded himself in the church, somewhere far away from everyone else that he was familiar with. He didnt pick up the phone for anyone, so that isnt a valid point. And when he speaks with Aeris' spirit, its because hes seeking forgiveness from her. He wants forgiveness for the failure to save her, as well as his failure to save Zack. Thats not something he can get from Tifa. He needed to hear it from Aeris. Cloud had an overall sense of failure because of her death. Not because he loved her, but because he wouldve taken her life himself, and then he watched helplessly as she died in front of his eyes. Hmmm...Im done for the night. But thats a good start in on that. Chew it for a while, savor it. And Ill continue later.
here many of these statements arent mine but they will definetly bring my point at the end I will give you the site and you can read it yourself
1--what clotis say--"Aerith only loved Cloud because of Zack".
"Again, you are wrong. In the game, Aerith clearly states that her relationship with Zack was "in the past" and that they were not "serious". She also did not act all that concerned when she found out that Zack was dead. What more do you need? Although the "Zack-ness" of Cloud was what initially attracted Aerith to him, she did not love Cloud because of Zack. She states in the date scene that she realizes that Cloud is not Zack. In fact, Aerith knew quite a lot about Cloud. She asked Marlene about him, and she was always talking to Cloud, asking him questions, trying to break down the cold exterior that Cloud presented to the world
In fact, the official book Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, which has sections that focus on the thoughts of the FFVII characters, there is a section that speaks of Aerith's feelings for Cloud. She states that she realizes that Cloud is nothing like Zack and that she likes Cloud more than Zack anyways.
I will now leave you with a quote from the official novella "Maiden of the Planet":
"She loved him much more than her first love."
Kiss this lame theory good-bye, CloTis. XD
what clotis say--"Aerith never knew 'the real Cloud', that is why she said 'I want to meet you' in the date scene".
Okay, first of all, Cloud may have confused some of his memories with Zack, but he did not "become" Zack. In fact, if you actually paid attention to the game at all, you will see that Zack and Cloud are exact opposites (Zack was a "ladies man", very outgoing; Cloud is introverted and cold). So, how can you say Aerith didn't get to know the "real" Cloud, when he was there all along? The only memories Cloud confused with Zack's are the memories regarding SOLDIER. Cloud never "became" Zack.
Besides, if Aerith didn't know the "real Cloud", Tifa sure didn't either. She and Cloud were little more than strangers as children. Tifa herself stated this. In fact, Tifa didn't really start getting to know Cloud until he joined AVALANCHE many years later, right about the time he met Aerith. So, what applies to Aerith applies to Tifa as well"
2--"Cloud and Tifa were childhood sweethearts".
Wrong. Actually, Cloud and Tifa were little more than strangers. This is all revealed during the Lifestream event. Tifa and her friends would never accept Cloud; they always ignored him. He did whatever he could to try and get them to pay attention to him and they never did. In fact, Tifa herself stated that, although she and Cloud lived next to one another, they really didn't know each other at all. The truth is, Cloud's childhood with Tifa was anything but pleasant. He had to deal with the shame and humiliation of being rejected by Tifa and her snotty friends day in and day out. Then, he is blamed for Tifa falling off the bridge at Mt. Nibel. Does this sound like they were close? In this article, Naru, a girl who grew up in Japan, states that she believes Cloud was actually the subject of "ijime", or bullying, from Tifa and her friends. This is, in fact, true. You can see two articles on "ijime" here and here. These articles state that victims of "ijime" are ignored, ostracized, and humiliated. This is exactly what happens to Cloud during his childhood. So, why would Cloud fall in love with someone who bullied him as a child? Some people don't believe Tifa bullied Cloud because they are looking at this from a NA perspective. However, in Japan, it is a well-known fact that children wish to fit into a group. Cloud was excluded from Tifa's group. Tifa participated in his exclusion willingly. According to the Japanese, Tifa was guilty of subjecting Cloud to "ijime".
"Cloud joins SOLDIER just to impress Tifa."/"Cloud joins AVALANCHE for Tifa."
And just how do we know that Cloud joined SOLDIER just to impress Tifa? "Hey, I barely know you, and you always ignored me, and I was blamed for you falling off Mt. Nibelheim, but I am leaving home to become a SOLDIER just to impress you!" Yeah, makes a lot of sense. *Sarcasm* XD Cloud says that he wants to be stronger so that he would be noticed. It is no secret that Cloud wanted Tifa to notice him. However, was she the only one??? I highly doubt that. Cloud was blamed for her fall from the bridge. He was ashamed of his weakness, then, that he was unable to do anything to help Tifa. Don't you think that Cloud wanted to prove to everyone in town that he was strong? Don't you think he wanted to show all of them that he was no weakling, that he could be powerful and famous, and not just some loser who was ignored by Tifa as a child? The town's view of Cloud was damaged when he was blamed for Tifa's fall from the bridge. I think that Cloud wanted to show everyone, including Tifa, that he was strong-- to redeem himself, or prove himself, to them all.
Also, Cloud most certainly did not spend his years "pining for Tifa" as he trained to become a SOLDIER, as I have heard some CloTis claim. In fact, in Before Crisis, a FFVII prequel game coming out for mobile phones, Cloud gets rather close to a female Turk (Player A), and even asks to see her again the next time they are off duty! All of the events in BC occur before Cloud even gets mixed up with Sephiroth and Zack. So, you CloTis can't blame this on Cloud "losing his memory" (which he didn't to begin with).
As for Cloud joining AVALANCHE... Tifa begged Cloud to join AVALANCHE. He coldly refused. Tifa asked Cloud if he remembered the promise. He did not. In fact, she had to remind him of it.Tifa asked him to redeem his promise by helping AVALANCHE. He refused. In fact, Cloud only joined AVALANCHE when Barret agreed to pay him 2000 gil (more than the 1500 they initially agreed upon). Barret had to dip into Marlene's school money to pay Cloud. IF Cloud was so into Tifa, like you CloTis would have me believe, then he would have joined AVALANCHE when Tifa asked him to. IF Cloud was so into Tifa, he would have agreed to fulfill the promise when she asked him to. IF Cloud was so into Tifa, he would not have demanded 3000 gil, double what was initially agreed upon, to join AVALANCHE. IF Cloud was so into Tifa, he would not have forced Barret to take money away from Marlene's school funds to help out. When dealing with Tifa, Cloud became a cold mercenary, only interested in money. He demanded 3000 gil, but bargained with Barret, and finally accepted 2000. If Cloud was truly interested in helping Tifa, he would not have demanded to be paid for his services. Compare this with how Cloud behaves with Aerith. He readily agreed to be her bodyguard for one date. Not once did he asked to be paid. The cold mercenary disappears around Aerith, because he genuinely cares for her well-being. Cloud bluntly told the members of AVALANCHE how he felt when he stated he didn't care about them or the planet.
So, not only does Cloud not remember the promise, he refuses to redeem it. Not only does Cloud refuse to help Tifa when she asks, he demands more money than he initially agreed upon. Not only does Cloud demand his money before aiding any of them, but he bluntly tells them that he cares nothing for their cause or the planet. Not only all of that, but Cloud is also very rude and cold toward Tifa, regardless of what optional dialogue you try to throw in. Cloud took off from the playground in Sector 6 to go to Elmyra's house and didn't say a word to Tifa or Barret about where he was going. He started to leave Elmyra's house to rescue Aerith without Tifa. In fact, Tifa had to ask to be included --This is amusing, because we all know she didn't include poor Cloud in her group when they were kids. Now, she is the one begging to be around. Way to turn it around on her Cloud! XD-- Then, on their way to the second reactor, Cloud is rude to Tifa on the train:
Tifa: "Scary... huh."
Cloud: "Too late to be saying that now. Why'd you come along anyway?"
Sounds to me like Cloud didn't even care to have Tifa around. So, I don't really understand what CloTis see in these scenes that equals OMG TWOOO LURRRRVE!!! *Rolls eyes* XD Compare all this to how Cloud treated Aerith and you will see a huge difference. To Aerith, Cloud didn't care about money. Cloud assumed the position of her bodyguard for the rest of the game, treating her with kindness, respect, and caring. He never acted this rudely toward Aerith.
I g2g for now I'll finish later
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:26 am
here I'm not done I'm back! hope you got all that down beucase there is alot more to come!
"Cloud doesn't show grief/depression over Aerith's death"
Nope! According to the American Medical Association, Cloud does show grief over Aerith's death. Want more information? Read this. Not only that, but Cloud does display depression over Aerith's death for the rest of the game. Want to know how? Read this. These articles clearly demonstrate that Cloud does indeed grieve over Aerith throughout the length of the game.
I really don't know how anyone could miss Cloud's reaction at the death of Aerith. I mean, the man cried, screamed, and trembled. Some people claim that Cloud did not cry during Aerith's death scene... Are you blind??? o_0 His shoulders heaved as he held Aerith's body close to his own. A favorite quote from a friend of mine:
"His head bent over her, he's holding her close, his shoulders are heaving... what do you THINK he's doing? Having an asthma attack? *snort*" --Anastar
Let us compare Cloud's reaction over the death of Aerith with another time when he believed that two people close to him were injured and/or dying:
Zack: A close friend of Cloud's from SOLDIER, Zack was brutally attacked by Sephiroth and left to die. What was Cloud's reaction? Nothing. He picked up Zack's sword and went after Sephiroth. He said nothing. He did nothing for Zack. He showed no emotion.
Tifa: A close friend of Cloud and the other half of the "love triangle". Tifa was viciously stabbed by Sephiroth and left for dead. Cloud comes across Tifa lying on the steps of the reactor at Nibelheim. She is bleeding severely. What does Cloud do? Does he hold her close? No. Does he scream in rage and anguish? No. Does he weep? No. All Cloud does is set Tifa to the side. He says nothing to her. He just leaves her there to die. And, yes, Cloud did think Tifa was dying, later admitting that he thought she was a "goner". Tifa herself stated that she was surprised that she had survived the incident. Cloud admitted that he was "sad" that Tifa was dying. However, his sadness was not enough to break down his cold exterior and open the emotional floodgates as we see during Aerith's death. In fact, if it had not been for Tifa's teacher, Zangan, she probably would have died. Zangan was the one to stop Tifa's bleeding, not Cloud. Zangan was the one who carried Tifa down Mt. Nibelheim to get her much-needed medical attention, not Cloud. Now, compare all of this to Cloud's reaction at Aerith's death. It should be clear which of them Cloud is in love with.
Also, during Aerith's death scene, Cloud's statement of "What about us... what are WE supposed to do?" For all of you who who don't get that line, let me explain with an excerpt from the editorial "What about US...?" by Alysandra (visit her site, Destiny Fulfilled):
"Cloud is speaking of he and Aerith in the first person plural the same way that couples do. Some people argue that Cloud does not mean he and Aerith as he says this. They interpret this phrase to mean that Cloud is asking how the group is going to fight Sephiroth without Aerith, since she told Cloud in the Sleeping Forest that only a survivor of the Cetra can do it. However, this interpretation doesn't fit the context of the passage at all. Cloud is in the midst of grief and shock over her death, while he is clutching her body close to him with his head bowed over her. He is in the midst of talking about his own pain and the loss of Aerith. Why would Cloud suddenly switch topic to ask how the group is supposed to fight Sephiroth without Aerith?"
See what I mean? Cloud loved Aerith. He just realized it a bit too late. They say you never know whar you've got until it's gone. I think this was the case here. Also, according to Shadow Spirit, a Japanese descendant, Aly is correct about the "What about US" statement. In his interview with Aly, which can be viewed here, SS comments on the Japanese version of FFVII:
"When Cloud says 'What about US? What are WE supposed to do?' in Aerith's death scene, the phrase is directed to Cloud and Aerith in a personal sense, almost like a talk between him and her. The language usage in this scene is painful, soft, and personal, instead of Cloud's usual rough manner of speech. Although he doesn't indicate love in and of itself, it's the only scene in the game where Cloud shows a soft side, so it's pretty much sure that Aerith was very important to him and more than just a friend. Aerith is the only person who captured Cloud's attention like this in the game. Since your actions reveal who you love in Japan, then his feelings for Aerith are suggested in this scene."
I would like to also add that Aly and Shadow Spirit's interpretations of this passage are also considered correct by Vilaeth, the site translator for AdventChildren.net, who is also of Japanese descent. ^_^
There are a couple of more points regarding Aerith's death and the circumstances around it that I would like to make...
1. When Aerith ran off into the Sleeping Forest in Cloud's vision, he ran after her. Why? Why would Cloud run after Aerith unless he wanted to be with her and/or didn't want her to leave? He didn't have any reason to think she was in danger. After all, she told him she would come back when it was all over. Sephiroth didn't appear until after Cloud had started running. What reason did Cloud have for running after Aerith before he even knew she was in danger unless he just didn't want her to go?
2. When Cloud approached Aerith on the altar where she was praying, he waved everyone else away. Does this remind you of anything? Well, it should, because it is the exact same thing Vincent did when he approached Lucrecia beneath the waterfall. Vincent wanted a few moments to speak alone with the woman he loved. Cloud is no different. Doesn't the fact that he wants a moment alone with Aerith imply that she is something more than a friend to him? Doesn't the fact that his friends allow him to approach her alone imply that they are aware of how he feels for Aerith? Tifa was Aerith's friend, too, so why wasn't she allowed to pass? If Cloud was a mere friend to Aerith, then why was he singled out to approach her alone?
3. Why did Sephiroth wait until Cloud arrived to murder Aerith? I mean, Sephiroth waited around until Aerith had already gotten her wish to the planet and bonded Holy to humanity. That was rather counter-productive of him, don't you think? Why didn't he kill her before she did this? It would have fueled his plans much better if he had done so. By killing Aerith after she was done praying, he actually helped Aerith to summon Holy. So, why make this troublesome girl even more of an obstacle by doing exactly what she wanted? I mean, he showed up in the Sleeping Forest right after she left. He knew where she was going and what she planned to do. So, why wait? I think the answer is pretty clear. Sephiroth waited to kill Aerith in front of Cloud because he knew that nothing could devastate Cloud more than to lose the woman he loved. It was Sephiroth's way of getting revenge on Cloud for being defeated in the Nibelheim reactor. Even when Sephiroth laughed and claimed Cloud was incapable of feelings-- he was doing all of it to cause Cloud grief and sorrow. Even in Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, Sephiroth states that he wishes to bring Cloud despair. What better way to cause despair than to kill the one you love most in the world right in front of you while you stand there helpless?
4. Cloud was the one to run to Aerith and scoop her up in his arms after she had been killed. And it was everyone else who came up to offer their condolences, whether it was a hug, a hand on the shoulder, or an understanding nod. If Aerith was just a mere friend, like she was to everyone else, why would everyone be comforting Cloud? Doesn't this imply that they understand just how deeply he cared for her? Doesn't also imply that they understand that Cloud is suffering the greatest loss?
5. Cloud, alone, was the one to lay Aerith to rest in the water. No one else was visible in this scene. Just like when Cloud approached Aerith alone, Cloud was allowed a special moment alone with Aerith. If Cloud considered her a mere friend, like all of the others did, why was he the only one to carry her to her final rest? Doesn't this indicate how special Aerith was to Cloud?
In the novella "Maiden of the Planet", which focuses on Aerith's spirit after her death, we have a confirmation of just how devastated Cloud is over Aerith's death. Read it and weep, CloTis:
"She watched Cloud's face which looked as if his heart was going to fall apart from the sadness of losing her, the anger and hate he had for her being taken from him."
And here are a few more lines in case it hasn't struck home yet for some of you thick-headed people. XD This one takes place immediately after her death:
"But a cry came through to her. It wasn't the sound of her cry. If it was then she would have felt the blood gushing up through her throat and the fury that forced its way out from the depths of her soul- It was the sound of Cloud's heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith's death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth."
Do these lines even remotely sound like someone who has lost a mere friend??? I don't think so.
Also, in the novella, "Case of Tifa", it seems even Tifa understands Cloud's feelings for Aerith.
"She knew that Cloud was in great pain because he couldn't protect Aerith. Cloud was on the verge of overcoming it but now, going back to the place where he and Aerith got separated meant that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart apart once again."
I love being right. XD
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:28 am
ahem:
"Cloud can't be with Aerith because she is dead".
Wrong! This is not a question of who Cloud can be with, it is a question of who he loves. You can continuing loving someone, even after they are dead. Think about it. Would you cease to love someone simply because they died? I would certainly hope not! Also, if someone you loved died, would you immediately go shack up with someone else? No, you'd want to be alone for a while, wouldn't you? Plus, in case you forgot, Cloud's decision at the end of FFVII was to be with Aerith, to "meet her there" ("there" being The Promised Land). So, he is still searching for a way to be with her, even though she is dead. This has been shown time and time again in subsequent games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Kingdom Hearts.
And, in Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, it is shown that death means nothing. Aerith is still very much a part of Cloud's life. They interact with one another in the movie, speaking and even touching. And, in the end, Aerith remains a part of Cloud's life as shown in the bonus video "Calling". So, truly, this argument should not even be used anymore. S-E has already shown that, in the world of Final Fantasy, death isn't really a problem. A few lines from "Maiden of the Planet", the official Aerith novella that prove exactly my point:
"She was told that death was not the demise of life."
"Aerith knew that death didn't mean to be annihilated."
Death cannot stop love, especially in the world of Final Fantasy. And it certainly is not a hindrance to Cloud and Aerith. It never was.
Another thing about the whole "Aerith is dead" argument that totally pisses me off is the "Cloud would have to become a necrophiliac in order to continue loving Aerith" statement (it cannot be called an argument). People that use this obtuse declaration in love triangle debates should be shot. They are maladjusted, immature, and completely ignorant when it comes to love. They have no concept of what love is and have clearly never been in love themselves. For all of you morons who still don't get it, I will explain-- sex does not= love. It doesn't even come close. Love means holding someone in your heart forever. Love means continuing to love someone even after they have passed on. Love means searching for a way to be with the one you love no matter what the odds. Love means waiting for the one you love for however long it takes. It amuses me how many people will say that Cloud cannot be with Aerith because she is dead and then turn around and say they are fans of Tidus/Yuna. Hellooooo??? Tidus and Yuna's love story was directly parallel with that of Cloud and Aerith. Tidus and Yuna's love was based on the concept of loving someone even after they have died. It was also about continuing to love that person and search for a way to be with them again, despite the overwhelming odds. So, yes, it is totally ClAeris, whether you like it or not.
Tifa is the only girl left, so Cloud will choose her".
Okay, this argument is completely ridiculous. Just because Tifa is around doesn't mean Cloud will go for her and it doesn't mean he automatically loves her. In fact, with the release of Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, we see that Cloud and Tifa are estranged. Even after two years Cloud and Tifa never got together. And, in the FFVII spinoff game Dirge of Cerebrus, which takes place a year after AC, Cloud and Tifa still aren't an item. You know why? Because he never loved her. If Cloud loved Tifa, he would be with her. Period. In fact, the only woman Cloud shows any interest in is Aerith. ^_^
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:30 am
The CloudxAerith proof:
1. Before the release of FFVII, a commercial for it was aired on TV. In this commercial, it showed Cloud laying Aerith into the water, with the word "love" superimposed above it. The narrator then stated, "...a story of a love that could never be..." This statement clearly spoke of a romantic love between two people and the tragedy that would separate them. In fact, this definition of the statement "a love that could never be" is supported by two experts at AllExperts.com. You can see their answers here and here. Why would Square portray Cloud and Aerith as the intended couple of the game in this commercial if they were not? Some people, people without a hint of common sense, like to say that this commercial was not made by Square and, therefore, it is not official. How idiotic! Whoever made it was hired by Square, right? And, so they would have been given information regarding FFVII, like who was the hero, who was the villain, and who loved who, right? Do you honestly think Square would have allowed a commercial to be released if it portrayed something false??? The commercial is official, so deal with it. That line was even used in the official FFVII tagline, according to IMDb: "The story of a love that can never be, and a hate that always was". Oh, and BTW, Tifa was shown in the commercial, too. She was shown, alone, at the end, with the narrator saying, "...will never come to a theater near you..." So, she was portrayed as she was meant to be-- alone.
2. Cloud and Aerith appear together in official artwork by Yoshitaka Amano. Some people try to argue this point by saying that Amano had "nothing to do with FFVII", which is completely untrue. Amano was the character designer for all of the Final Fantasy games until Tetsuya Nomura took over for FFVII. Amano still did much of the visual design for FFVII and much of the artwork, even though Nomura's was also used. So, yes, he was involved in FFVII and his artwork is considered official. This should be obvious when looking at Amano's designs for the characters of FFVII. Many of the FFVII characters resemble the original Amano designs. Amano's artwork is still considered appropriate and significant today, as it is displayed with all of the official FF artwork, right alongside that of Nomura. In fact, the cover of the FFVII Original Soundtrack is Amano artwork of Cloud with Aerith
So, in case you still haven't figured it out, let me clue you in... Amano only draws canon couples. Do you see any drawings by him of SquallxQuistis, AuronxLulu, or CloudxTifa? No. Amano will also draw the antagonist and protagonist (villain and heroine) together, portraying light and dark. Some examples of Amano art with the villain and heroine together are his art of Seymour with Yuna and his art of Sephiroth with Aerith. Some people claim that Amano's art of Sephiroth with Aerith is romantic. I am sorry to burst your bubble, but since when do romantic couples threaten each other? That's right... In one of the pictures of Sephiroth with Aerith, Sephiroth is holding his sword to Aerith's throat. Yeah, watch out for the romance there, buddy... XD Amano will also draw friends together, as he drew Cloud with Red XIII. However, do you once see Amano portraying Cloud with Tifa? No. And Amano was quite aware of the changes to the storyline, including the death of Aerith and the addition of Tifa (added late in the game). However, he still did not draw Cloud and Tifa together. Tifa is portrayed alone in Amano's works, as she was in the game, and as she is in Advent Children. So, my question for you CloTis is: If Amano's art is considered canon for all of the other Final Fantasy games, then why would you claim that his art of Cloud and Aerith is not considered canon???
Oh, and for all of you CloTis who claim that Amano's art means nothing... why, oh, why are you asking for a CloTi pic from Amano??? Yep, that's right. The CloTis have made up a petition in which they pathetically beg Square for proof of Cloud and Tifa's "love". Why is this? Because they don't have any proof of their own. You can see the petition here. What is amusing in this petition is their request for a "romantic picture" by Yoshitaka Amano. Now, why would he want to do that when Cloud and Tifa are not, and were never meant to be, the true couple of FFVII? He already has art of the true couple of FFVII, in case you hadn't noticed, CloTis. Oh, that's right, it doesn't count unless he draws Cloud with Tifa, right? *Sarcasm* This is typical CloTi hypocrisy right here, folks. Amano's art of Cloud and Aerith means nothing, and yet they beg for Amano art of Cloud and Tifa to prove that Cloud and Tifa are canon??? Gawd, I will be laughing for weeks... XD
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Cloud displays more affection toward Aerith than Tifa during the course of FFVII. Cloud interacted with Tifa a total of 261 times during FFVII. He interacted with/remembered Aerith a total of 253 times during the game. Despite the fact that Cloud interacted with these two women approximately the same amount during the course of the game, their affection ratings are much different. This site documents each time Cloud displayed affection for Tifa and Aerith (affection being defined as displays of caring, concern, helpfulness, kindness, support, protection, remembrance, consideration, and personal interest). The total affection rating for Tifa was 84. The total affection rating for Aerith was 166. So, Cloud displayed nearly twice the affection for Aerith despite the fact that he spent approximately the same time focused on each woman.
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Aerith and Cloud are much more compatible than Tifa and Cloud.
First let us look at Tifa and what she needs in a significant other. Tifa is a very tragic person. She has had many unhappy events in her life, including the death of her father at the hands of Sephiroth, the death of her mother when she was very young, the razing of Nibelheim by Sephiroth, and the destruction of Sector 7 in Midgar. Tifa is potrayed in FFVII as being very pessimistic, uncertain, and insecure. Tifa often becomes hysterical in high-pressure situations, while Aerith remains calm, supportive, and optimistic. When it comes to physical strength in the women of FFVII, Tifa is tops. However, when you look at her mental, emotional, and spiritual strength, Tifa is rock-bottom. Tifa needs a man that will support her, comfort her, and be her "hero". Are any of these things Cloud? Sorry, but no. Cloud is not the type of person to support or comfort anyone, and he certainly wasn't interested in fulfilling the promise to Tifa. In fact, Cloud is the type of person who needs someone to comfort and support him. So, in many, many ways, Tifa and Cloud are just alike. That is why a relationship between these two could just never work. They both need someone who is open with their feelings (they both hide their feelings from the world and everyone in it), someone who is sure of themselves (because they are both very unsure), someone who is mentally and emotionally strong (because they are both pretty weak in these areas). Why would Cloud open up to someone who can't open up to him? Plus, Cloud could never measure up to Tifa's expectations of him, stating, "I could never live up to being Cloud." All throughout the game, he felt as if he had let Tifa down and Tifa was constantly worrying about him or asking for help from him. Tifa truly expected too much of Cloud, which made him feel like a failure. Their relationship was just a tad unhealthy.
Now, let us look at Aerith. While Aerith's life wasn't always grand, she made a point out of remaining optimistic, cheerful, and happy. Aerith was always there to support Cloud and ease his fears, letting him know that everything was okay. In terms of strength of character, emotional strength, mental strength, and spiritual strength, Aerith had enough for her and Cloud both. Cloud needs a woman like this. Someone who can help him through trying times. Someone that he can open up to. Someone he can be himself around. Aerith never let Cloud put on the "tough guy act". She took charge and got him to open up and be himself for once. With Aerith, Cloud could be just plain Cloud. With Tifa, Cloud had to be SOLDIER First Class Cloud.
Let's face facts here, people. With Aerith, Cloud was truly happy. The only time in FFVII that Cloud smiled and laughed because of one person was when he was with Aerith. And the only time in FFVII that Cloud cried was when he lost her. Aerith's love was the force that broke down the emotional barrier around Cloud. After meeting her, he began to change for the better. In fact, the only time during the game in which Cloud almost confesses his feelings to anyone is in Cosmo Canyon, when he is trying to comfort Aerith in one of her only moments of sadness. Cloud says, "But, I'm-- I mean-- we're here for you, right?" He nearly let the cat out of the bag there! XD Tifa said basically the same thing to Cloud under the Highwind, saying that she was all alone and had nowhere to go. Did Cloud try to comfort Tifa? No. Did Cloud say he would be there for her? No. And yet he did both of these things for Aerith.
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Aerith and Cloud fit Square's idea of the perfect couple. How do I know this? Just take a look at the other canon couples from FFVIII, FFIX, and FFX... *Possible spoilers ahead*
* Final Fantasy VIII: Want to see Cloud and Aerith reinvented in another game? Then play FFVIII and take a look at Squall and Rinoa. This pairing is Cloud and Aerith remade. Squall and Rinoa give us a look into what might have happened if Aerith had not died
-Squall is the brooding, dark soldier with a mysterious past. He is very much of an introvert and a loner, never opening up to anyone. Sound familiar? It should, because he acts exactly like Cloud. He even has the same job-- he is a mercenary (Squall was hired to protect and help out Rinoa; Cloud was hired by Aerith to be her bodyguard). Heck, he even carries an oversized weapon and has Limit Breaks that are reminiscent of Cloud's. During the course of the game, Squall begins to open up to Rinoa, much in the same way Cloud opened up to Aerith and was able to laugh and cry. Squall's moment of greatest emotional breakdown was when he thought he had lost Rinoa, saying to her:
"(Rinoa... You feel so cold. Are you going to be like this forever?)... Isn't there anything I can do?! You were so full of life. Now you don't even make a sound. I want to hear your voice...."
Compare that to Cloud's speech at Aerith's death (the moment of Cloud's greatest show of emotion)::
"... Aerith. This can't be real!" "Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry... or get angry.... What about us? What are WE supposed to do? What about my pain? My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!"
-Rinoa is the cheerful, optimistic, and flirtatious daughter of a noted general. Just like Aerith, Rinoa is someone of importance, often referred to as "princess" (Aerith was the last of the Cetra, and the rightful heiress to the planet). I have heard CloTis attempt to compare Rinoa with Tifa. This is absolutely laughable, because Rinoa is nothing like Tifa. She has dark hair and eyes. That is the only way Rinoa resembles Tifa. In all other things, Rinoa is just like Aerith. Tifa was an introvert; Aerith and Rinoa are extroverts. Tifa could not express her feelings to Cloud; Aerith and Rinoa are outspoken and flirtatious with Cloud and Squall. Tifa was a physical fighter; Aerith and Rinoa are both mages. I am only scratching the surface here, too.
It is also interesting to note that Squall and Rinoa made their promise to each other in a flower field. They promised to be reunited there. And just who is associated with flowers, Tifa or Aerith? Aerith, of course! In fact, Aerith is shown meeting with Cloud in a field full of flowers in FFVII: Advent Children.
* Final Fantasy IX: Just like Cloud and Aerith are opposites, Zidane and Garnet are also opposites...
-Zidane is a cocky, flirtatious thief. Like Cloud, he has a mysterious past and later discovers that he is, in fact, an experiment. Zidane also has a polar opposite in the game, the silver-haired villain, Kuja. Sounds rather like Cloud and his polar opposite, the silver-haired Sephiroth, does it not? Zidane is a physical fighter, just like Cloud and Squall.
-Garnet/Dagger is a princess, someone of great importance, just like Aerith and Rinoa. She is one of the last of her kind, one of a mysterious race known as Summoners (Aerith was the last of the Cetra, another mysterious race). Garnet is quiet, yet strong-willed, a complete opposite of Zidane. She is also a princess while Zidane is, let's face it, a criminal. How opposite can you get??? Garnet is also a white mage, weak physically, but strong in mind and magic.
* Final Fantasy X: Tidus and Yuna are also opposites; Tidus's name/celestial objects refer to the sun while Yuna's name/celestial objects refer to the moon. Not only that, but their story is directly parallel to that of Cloud and Aerith...
-Tidus is an outspoken, cocky blitzball star who, like all FF heroes, has a mysterious past. He also becomes a Guardian for Yuna during her pilgrimage, vowing to protect her from her fate.
-Yuna is the daughter of a famous man, High Summoner Braska. Like Aerith, and all of the female FF heroines before her, she is someone of great importance. She is also a white mage and a Summoner, someone with unusual powers, just like Aerith (a Cetra), Rinoa (a Sorceress), and Garnet (also a Summoner). Yuna is traveling on a pilgrimage with her Guardians to Zanarkand, where she will obtain the Final Aeon. We later discover that Yuna will die upon summoning the Final Aeon. And yet she bravely moves forward, with the good of the world in mind. Sound familiar? Aerith willingly sacrificed herself for the good of the planet in FFVII.
It is only later in the game that Yuna realizes the truth about Tidus. He is merely a dream, to be lost when she destroys the enemy. And yet Yuna bravely presses on selflessly, much the way Aerith did in FFVII. Even when Tidus is lost to Yuna, she does not stop loving him and she does not stop looking for a way to be with him. Just like Cloud, at the end of FFVII, who expresses his desire to be reunited with Aerith, Yuna searches for a way to be with Tidus once again. Again, we see the idea of love beyond death being presented. CloTis may mock this, but it is something Square clearly believes in. It is amusing for me to see so many CloTis that are fans of TidusxYuna, but not of CloudxAerith. Hellooooo???? These two pairings are the same!
* Final Fantasy X-2: In this game, we see a continuation of Yuna's search for Tidus. Although he is gone, she continues to love him, hold his memory dear, and search for a way to be reunited with him. Also, in this game, we see another story that supports love beyond death. Shuyin and Lenne, while dead, still love one another, although they haven't seen each other for thousands of years. They are soul mates and their spirits persist in Spira, searching for one another. This is what love means, people. Loving someone forever is something that a lot of CloudxTifa fans are unable to comprehend. Their idea of love is shallow, at best. If you cannot grasp the true meaning of love, as demonstrated by CloudxAerith, TidusxYuna, and ShuyinxLenne, then you are a very sad person, indeed, and have clearly never experienced true love.
So, who does Tifa resemble? In FFVIII, it would definitely be Quistis. Like Tifa, Quistis grew up with the main hero. Quistis also develops feelings for Squall, the same way Tifa develops feelings for Cloud. However, the hero does not reciprocate their feelings. Squall loves Rinoa and does not reciprocate the feelings of Quistis, his "childhood friend". Cloud loves Aerith and does not reciprocate the feelings of Tifa, his "childhood friend".
In FFIX, Freya is most like Tifa. She is an "old friend" of Zidane's, like Tifa was an "old friend" of Cloud's. Freya is also physically strong, like Tifa. Neither of these females are strong with magic.
In FFX, Lulu is a remade Tifa. She has long dark hair, wears black, has reddish-brown eyes, and is... "well endowed", if you get my drift. She has a painful past (she has lost people she cared about, like Tifa), is very pessimistic, and has a difficult time letting others see her softer side, just like Tifa. She is also a supportive friend to Tidus, like Tifa supports Cloud.
In fact, there is some optional dialogue in FFX where you can actually have Tidus say he likes Lulu more than Yuna. Does this change who the canon couple is? Nope! Also, based on what options you chose for Tidus to say, he can ride to Macalania Temple with either Rikku or Lulu (much like the dating mechanism in FFVII and just as pointless- it was all added to increase replay value). If he rides with Rikku, she hugs him (much the same way Yuffie kissed Cloud on their "date"- and one more indication that anyone else besides Aerith, the default for the date, was just there for the player's amusement). Does this change who the canon couple is? Again, no
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:39 am
continued 4laugh
The predictions of Cait Sith.
I have heard a lot of people say that Cait Sith's predictions are wrong, but they aren't. Cait Sith wasn't always able to tell Cloud what he wanted to hear, but he wasn't necessarily wrong either, especially when it was something important. The more fortunes Cait Sith read, the more potent and true they seemed to be.
For instance "give in to the good will of others and something big will happen" could refer to Cloud's cold exterior being melted away by the kind nature of Aerith. Cloud did not seem to care for anyone or anything until after he met Aerith. Aerith was the only one who could get Cloud to open up and care. So, what was the big thing that happened? It could be referring to Cloud falling in love with Aerith. It could be referring to Cloud caring enough for Aerith and the planet to fight Sephiroth and help save the world. It could be referring to many big things that happened during the course of FFVII. So, is this prediction wrong? No.
"Be careful of forgetfulness" is a fortune of great importance for Cloud. After all, he forgot about his life as a common grunt in SOLDIER and started believing he had been living the life of SOLDIER First Class, Zack. Is this prediction wrong? No.
"Your lucky color is... blue?" Well, Cloud did wear blue all the time in FFVII. XD Not to mention, he has amazing blue Mako eyes. So, is this prediction wrong? Well, no.
"What you pursue will be yours." This could be referring to the Black Materia, but, personally, I think it is referring to Sephiroth. After all, Cloud was chasing Sephiroth down during the events of FFVII. And he did catch up with him. Again, this prediction doesn't appear wrong at all.
"But you will lose something dear." What was the price Cloud paid for hunting down Sephiroth? He lost Aerith, the one most dear to him. Once again, we see that Cait Sith's predictions are not wrong. He didn't know what or who Cloud would lose, but he called it right.
So, if these predictions aren't wrong, then why would anyone claim that Cait Sith's prediction regarding Cloud and Aerith's compatibility was wrong? o_0 Here is what Cait Sith had to say about them:
"This isn't good. I can't say it. Poor Tifa." Why would Cait Sith feel bad for Tifa? Read on...
"Looks good. You are perfect for each other! Aeris's star and Cloud's star!" Funny, CloTis think the stars show Cloud's love for Tifa. Looks like you guys were wrong again. XD
"They show a great future!" How was Cait Sith to know what Aerith would be the "something dear" that Cloud lost? This prediction shows that, if Aerith had not died, she and Cloud would have had a wonderful life ahead of them. crying
"Cloud, I'll be your matchmaker, preacher..." Preacher??? Did Cait Sith see a wedding in their future??? O_O
"I'll do whatever you want me to! Just call on me when it all happens!" Yep, it looks like Cait Sith believed Cloud and Aerith would wed in the future! ^_^ Don't believe me? Look at the Japanese version of this scene... "Cloud, I'll arrange your marriage, be the host, or a spy, whatever you ask! Just call me then, OK?"
Cloud's mother described the perfect woman for Cloud
and it sounds more like Aerith than Tifa to me... ^_^
"You should have... an older girlfriend, one that'll take care of you. I think that would be the prefect type for you."
An older girlfriend, huh? Well, Aerith is older than Cloud. Tifa is younger. Not only that, but Aerith does take care of Cloud in a lot of ways that Tifa cannot. Tifa is always seeking help and comfort from Cloud. She is always waiting for Cloud to take care of everything for her. Aerith, on the other hand, doesn't wait for help from Cloud and is often the one to tell him exactly what he needs to hear to get him moving again. Looks like Cloud's perfect type is Aerith. ^_^
1Nomura admitted that Tifa was not replacing Aerith in FFVII.
In an interview with EGM, Tetsuya Nomura had this to say about the creation of Tifa and the death of Aerith:
"People think that I wanted to kill of Aerith and replace her with Tifa as the main character! [Laughs] The actual conversation between Mr. Kitase and myself was very, very long. Originally, there were only going to be three characters in the entire game: Cloud, Barret, and Aerith."
So, how can Cloud and Tifa be a couple when Tifa wasn't going to be included to begin with? Cloud and Aerith were a couple long before Tifa came along. And, no, Tifa never took Aerith's place as heroine or as Cloud's love interest. Confirmed by Nomura himself
In this same article, Nomura was also asked which FFVII female is his personal favorite. His answer?
"[Laughs] I'm not really interested in any superdeformed females."
So, all that self-insertion nonsense I have seen on CloTi sites that state that Tifa is Nomura's favorite female character because he lusts after big-breasted women-- WRONG! Looks like Aerith is Nomura's fav. ^_^ If Nomura himself favors ClAeris, shouldn't everyone else???
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:46 am
ok this is all I will post but for much more I give credit to the super amazing amanda!
this is her site! READ IT AND WEEP
http://www.geocities.com/anime_art2003/Love_triangle.html
Advent Children
Before AC, Cloud was living at the new Seventh Heaven in Edge, just outside of Midgar, with Barret, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel. The office for his delivery service is located in his room. However, during AC, Cloud is living in Aerith's church and has not told anyone where he is. This is the first big ClAeris hint. Why live in a place that reminds him of Aerith? Why not live at Seventh Heaven? Why run to a place that reminds him of the flower girl he lost when he finds out he is terminally ill? Why is it that he feels most at peace here?
The first time we catch a glimpse of Aerith's influence in AC is directly after Cloud passes out from the effects of Geostigma in her church, right after he finds Tifa, barely conscious from battling Loz. Aerith approaches the unconscious pair and her light surrounds them. Beside Cloud, a wolf is standing, the symbol of his guilt.
The second time we see Aerith is during Cloud's ride to the Forgotten Capital on his motorcycle. He is chasing down the silver-haired men, who have kidnapped Marlene, along with other children. Cloud is surrounded by light and then discovers himself standing back-to-back with Aerith.
Aerith: "You came! Even though it'll be hard for you seeing that place again. I'm sure you'll be just fine. Question! Why exactly did you come?"
Cloud: "I... want to be forgiven. Yes, I want to be forgiven."
Aerith: (giggling) "By who?"
Cloud turn and tries to face Aerith, but finds himself back in reality, speeding down the road toward the place where Aerith was laid to rest and the hideout for the SHM.
Later, during a flashback of Cloud speaking with Tifa, we hear Aerith's voice in Cloud's mind, echoing what Tifa had said to him earlier:
Aerith: (speaking gently) "Really, all you do is lament. Hey, why don't you forgive yourself?"
Immediately after Cloud hears Aerith's voice in his mind, he turns to Vincent:
Cloud: "Can sin be forgiven?"
Vincent: "...I've never tried it."
Why would Cloud ask Vincent something like this, unless they share a common "sin"? Vincent considers his sin to be that he could not save Lucrecia, the woman he loved, from the evil machinations of Hojo. Does Cloud consider his sin to be that he failed to protect the woman he loved from being murdered by Sephiroth? It seems to be a very likely scenario, especially since Cloud asked this of Vincent immediately after hearing the voice of Aerith. Why put this scene in AC at all, unless it was to show a connection between the "sins" of these two brooding heroes, who are so much alike?
During the fight with the silver-haired men, Cloud drops his phone in the spring that Aerith was buried in. The phone slowly sinks to the bottom, as playback shows all of the recorded messages from Cloud's friends who had tried to talk to him over the past few months-- Barret, Yuffie, Tifa, Cid, Reeve.... While the messages play, Aerith's voice is heard, gentle and reassuring, trying to comfort Cloud:
Aerith: "I've never blamed you once. You came back for me, didn't you? That's really all I could ask for."
Cloud's phone then touches the bottom and stops functioning, the screen going black. But, still... there is a glimmer of light from... somewhere... We know for certain that Cloud heard Aerith's words, because, just above the spring, we see the wolf standing, gazing into the water. Slowly, it fades away. Cloud's burden of guilt is beginning to lessen.
After all of this, Cloud returns to Midgar, where Bahamut-Sin, summoned by Kadaj, is attacking the city. Cloud readies his sword and speaks to Tifa, who is standing nearby:
Cloud: "It feels a little lighter. Maybe I wore it down by dragging it around so much."
Something deep within Cloud has begun to heal now, aided by Aerith. His burden of guilt and grief is lighter. This scene shows who truly motivates Cloud. None of his friends could comfort him. The only one who was truly able to help Cloud was Aerith.
Cloud finally attacks Bahamut-Sin, leaping into the air to meet the monstrous dragon summon. Cloud's friends all help him attempt to reach Bahamut, each one pushing him higher and higher. Barret, Cid, Yuffie, Red XIII, Vincent, and Tifa, one-by-one, all lend their strength to Cloud's flying ascent. But, it is not enough. Cloud cannot reach his goal. Then, suddenly, reflected in Cloud's eyes, is Aerith, descending from the heavens. She reaches out her hand to Cloud, giving him that last little bit of strength to reach Bahamut (a scene confirmed by Tetsuya Nomura to be an homage to the hand reach scene between Cloud and Aerith in FFVII), an aura surrounding Cloud, all of his fears and doubts dispelled. A glow transfers from Aerith's hand to Cloud and Aerith exclaims "Yes!" Cloud then performs his Climhazzard Limit Break on Bahamut, killing the beast. This makes me wonder if Aerith was using her Fury Brand Limit Break on Cloud to aid him in reaching his limit...?
Later, when Cloud is battling Kadaj in Aerith's church, Cloud is once again struck with pain from Geostigma. Cloud is in no condition to fight and Kadaj readies a bolt of power to send down on him. However, Cloud need not worry. A surge of water rises up from a hole in the church floor and explodes into Aerith's Great Gospel Limit Break, raining its healing drops down on Cloud. A surge of water rises up against Kadaj who flees. The holy rain falls upon Cloud, healing him of Geostigma. Cloud, realizing who is responsible, stops for a moment, a peaceful expression on his face, gently touching the pink ribbon tied around his left arm. Aerith's voice is heard once again:
Aerith: "Let's go, Cloud."
Cloud jumps on his bike and heads after Kadaj.
You see? In the end, it was only Aerith who could comfort and reassure Cloud. In the end, it was only Aerith who was able to dispel Cloud's fears and doubts. In the end, it was only Aerith who was able to give Cloud the strength to fight again. And, during the final battle, even Sephiroth notices this, asking "Ooh... What made you stronger?"
Also, during the battle with Sephiroth, he asks Cloud what is most precious to him. The first two things Cloud sees is Aerith reaching for him in the battle with Bahamut and Aerith praying in the Forgotten Capital before her death. Since Aerith was the person Cloud thought of immediately after Sephiroth asked him what was most precious to him, then we can safely say that Aerith is the one most dear to Cloud. The second person Cloud thought of was Zack, his best friend. Right after Cloud sees Zack in his mind, he sees Aerith again. Then, finally, Cloud thinks of Tifa, then Marlene, then Denzel. Lastly, we see Tifa with Marlene and Denzel. It is pretty obvious to me that Aerith is the one foremost in Cloud's mind, the one he loves most. Then, it would have to be Zack, Cloud's best friend. Next, would be Tifa, the best friend Cloud has now that Zack is gone, and the two little orphans that idolize him. Why are CloTis still arguing with the obvious? Beats the hell out of me. o_0
After Sephiroth disappears, we see Kadaj, wounded, fall to the ground. He stumbles into Cloud's arms and lies there. Aerith's voice appears once again as Great Gospel begins to rain down, telling Kadaj to let go and come with her. Kadaj disappears into a thousands of small lights and Cloud watches in awe. All over the city, Aerith's healing rain is curing everyone with Geostigma, from orphans in the street to Rufus Shinra himself, surrounded by his loyal Turks. Aboard the Shera, Cloud's friends are celebrating. Tifa sees a drop of water on the edge of a window and says "You were always with us, weren't you....? Thank you."
The camera shifts to Cloud again, who is standing in the rain with his face up, eyes closed, looking utterly content and at peace. However, Cloud's moment of peace is interrupted by Yazoo and Loz, who shoot Cloud from behind. Though Cloud is obviously in pain, he turns and charges the two. Yazoo and Loz fire energy at Cloud who meets it with sword held high. An explosion erupts and Cloud is engulfed.
The next time Cloud is seen, he is floating in a white light, eyes closed. Aerith's hand appears and she gently places it on Cloud's forehead. Cloud, reacting to the comforting presence, mutters "Mother?" Then, we hear a conversation between Aerith and Zack.
Aerith: "Again-?! How many times have I been called Mother now?" (She is referring to Kadaj also calling her Mother. XD Aerith still hasn't lost her playful sense of humor.)
Zack: "Isn't it nice to be yearned for?"
Aerith: (giggling a little) "I don't need a kid as big as this one though."
Zack: "That's too bad. Your place isn't here."
It is interesting to note that Zack seems to understand the relationship between Cloud and Aerith. He states that Cloud is yearning for Aerith and then remarks, just before Cloud disappears from view that Cloud's place is not "there", among the dead.
As Cloud lies in the pool of white light, the wolf appears next to him. It walks up to him and bows its head, slowly fading away. The last of Cloud's guilt has vanished.
Cloud then wakes up in Aerith's church, much as he did in FFVII, after falling through the roof of the church. He is even lying in Aerith's flower bed, only, this time, it is a pool of water and he is floating in it, surrounded by children. A little girl says "She told us that Cloud would come back here." Cloud stares at her in astonishment.
"Welcome home!" Marlene shouts. The whole group is standing nearby. Cloud nods and states, "I'm home." Interesting... so, Cloud considers the church his home? Awww! ^_^
While Cloud is celebrating with his friends and the children healed by Aerith, he spots the flower girl nearby with two children. His eyes widen in awe as Aerith gets up and walks away toward a doorway filled with light. Leaning in the doorway is Zack, another whom Cloud had felt guilty about. Before she reaches the door, Aerith turns and we get our first glimpse of her astonishingly beautiful face. Smiling at Cloud, she says, "You're all right now, aren't you?" Then, she turns and walks out the door. Zack waves at Cloud and follows her through the door. It is quite interesting that, although Aerith is walking ahead of Zack into the light, she is the last to disappear. Zack, following behind her, disappears first, and we see that Cloud's gaze is lingering on the departing figure of the flower girl.
Cloud stares after them for a moment and then a beautiful and peaceful smile appears on his face. "Yeah... I'm... not alone."
Isn't it funny that Cloud only says that he doesn't feel alone anymore after seeing Aerith again? Just before, Tifa had offered a bright, alluring smile to Cloud. Did Cloud return it? No. In fact, he looked away at her and continued to smile shyly at the shildren around him. Cloud's most beautiful smile was reserved for Aerith. He was looking at no one else when he smiled at her. He was looking at no one else when he stated that he was no longer alone. Cloud has spent the past two years with his friends, mostly Tifa, but none of them could make him feel this way. Why couldn't Tifa make Cloud feel less alone if he truly loves her? Cloud couldn't even tell Tifa where he was living or that he had Geostigma. Obviously Cloud was not comfortable enough with Tifa to confide in her. That was a job for Aerith, the woman most dear to his heart.
The bottom line: Cloud spends more time with Aerith's spirit in this movie than he does with Tifa, who is alive. Cloud isn't motivated to live or fight by anyone else except Aerith. So, while Cloud never admitted loving Aerith in this movie, I think it is made clear.
The Bonus Ending- After the credits, there is a bonus ending starring Cloud and Aerith. The song ("Calling" by Kyosuke Himuro) was picked out especially by Tetsuya Nomura, who had this to say about it:
"In the scene where it plays I'm trying to portray the message of the film and Cloud's feelings through silence and song. I think people will feel the persuasive power of the song when they view the scene."
And here are the lyrics for "Calling":
I wonder how many sleepless nights you have to count, before you find your way
After how many lives are lost, will the strife end?
Clowns that cannot be saved, just tumbling atop of history
Like someone said one day before
The answer is in the wind.
How many times does your face have to be hit as you turned it away, before you stop pretending that you don't notice?
How much pain must you endure, before you smile freely?
If you're going to accept defeat again, still bound by rusted chains
Like someone said one day before
The answer is in the wind.
With your voice strained and your hands gripping tightly
Waiting for the time when your destiny is sure to change
With the faint power of a tiny love
Always waiting for your sadness to be embraced
Pitiful fraids working their puzzle of lies
Foolish romanticists who gracefully entertain with clumsiness
The premonition of the coming of the day when history will tell you nothing
Like someone said one day before
The answer is in the wind.
With your voice strained and your hands gripping tightly
Waiting for the time when your destiny is sure to change
With the faint power of a tiny love
Always waiting for your sadness to be embraced.
The song itself has a very upbeat melody, but, as you can see, the lyrics are conflicted, mirroring hardship, pain, sorrow, love, and hope. The video itself was filmed on location in Hawaii. The scenery is real and Cloud and Aerith are interposed on top, a special treatment that no other characters in the film were given. So, yes, Cloud and Aerith have their own little music video with a song that speaks of sadness, love, and hope. Could Nomura make it any more clear who the true couple is??? XD
The bonus ending starts with a view of some swirling clouds. Appropriate, no? ^_^ Then, Cloud is shown, riding Fenrir down the highway through many different locations. Aerith is then shown, standing in a field of yellow flowers. Suddenly, she turns her head, as if sensing the approach of someone. Ironically enough, the words "the answer is in the wind" are spoken right when she turns. ^_^ As Cloud rides along, you notice yellow flowers appearing here and there along the roadside. As he continues on his journey, the flowers appear with greater frequency until, at last, he rides off into the flower field, a small smile on his lips. The camera follows him no further. However, it is made crystal clear that Cloud is going to meet Aerith. Why show her in the flower field at all if Cloud was not going to meet her? This bonus scene helps you realize that seeing Aerith in the church was not a good-bye by any means. Aerith has always been with Cloud and, once relieved of his burden of guilt, he is now free to visit with her whenever he likes. The flower field has become Cloud's Promised Land. Finally, he was able to meet Aerith again. ^_^
After the song ends, Cloud's desk back at Seventh Heaven is shown. The first thing that catches your eye are the yellow flowers on Cloud's desk, picked from the very flower field Aerith was standing in. Behind the flowers is a picture of Cloud with all of his friends and, pushed to the side and behind this picture is the "family photo" of Cloud looking miserable with Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene. XD Strewn all over the desk and pinned all over the walls are pictures of the flower field. This scene makes it clear how important that flower field has become to Cloud, how often he visits the flower field, and negates any claims that Cloud is not going there to visit Aerith. Why would the flower field be so important to Cloud if Aerith wasn't there? Why would Cloud have so many pictures of the flower field if Aerith wasn't there? Why would Cloud be stopping in the flower field to pick flowers if Aerith wasn't there? Either Aerith is the one luring Cloud there or he has become obsessed with flowers. XD Which is most likely?
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:46 pm
Well in the past he liked aerith but when she died he heart was broken
even through he likes tifa i think he has more feelings for aerith heart
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:23 pm
It's all based on the gamers' preferences. If they want it to be Tifa, they can go on the date with Tifa. If they want it to be Aerith, they can go on the date with Aerith. If they want Yuffie, they go on the date with Yuffie. Hell, they can even choose Barret if they want. xd Really, I think that the producers didn't intend to make any pairing too obvious compared to others. Sure, Cloud and Aerith may have been a little more hinted at, but who's to say he didn't love Tifa, Yuffie, or Barret, eh?
I haven't read very many posts from this topic, besides the one on the first page, and I haven't heard anything about Nomura's opinion, so I probably won't be making a very good argument. Anyways, It's my opinion, so don't get all upset at me or anything.
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:19 pm
Anything special if the player makes Cloud like Barret?
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:41 pm
you know what? we may never know xD
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:58 pm
Everything that you have just stated .[.pink.spider.]. is only of your own opinion but you have no official proof from SE stating Cloud and Aeris are the cannon couple. Now Cloud and Tifa on the other hand have been stated by SE to be the cannon couple of FF7 Have any of you read the Advent Children Reunion files. It is clearly stated in there that "Tifa was the girlfriend" It's official people. And if you want more proof go to this site http://tifa.nu/tifa/. There is all the Cltif proof by SE there.
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:46 am
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:18 am
RanmaxHikaru Everything that you have just stated .[.pink.spider.]. is only of your own opinion but you have no official proof from SE stating Cloud and Aeris are the cannon couple. Now Cloud and Tifa on the other hand have been stated by SE to be the cannon couple of FF7 Have any of you read the Advent Children Reunion files. It is clearly stated in there that "Tifa was the girlfriend" It's official people. And if you want more proof go to this site http://tifa.nu/tifa/. There is all the Cltif proof by SE there.
first of all go here! http://www.geocities.com/anime_art2003/Love_triangle.html
and there is so much proof from SE again you would know if you read what I wrote stare
tifa wasnt even supposed to in the game because thats how it was intended
and even after she was added she was meant to be alone and thats how square wanted it
ugh all I saw from the site was tifa tifa tifa
you know that a relationship consists of both people
and look the title is loveless hmm....I wonder if that hints anything
here since you didnt read what I wrote I'll post the sections with the proof
Cloud displays more affection toward Aerith than Tifa during the course of FFVII. Cloud interacted with Tifa a total of 261 times during FFVII. He interacted with/remembered Aerith a total of 253 times during the game. Despite the fact that Cloud interacted with these two women approximately the same amount during the course of the game, their affection ratings are much different. This site documents each time Cloud displayed affection for Tifa and Aerith (affection being defined as displays of caring, concern, helpfulness, kindness, support, protection, remembrance, consideration, and personal interest). The total affection rating for Tifa was 84. The total affection rating for Aerith was 166. So, Cloud displayed nearly twice the affection for Aerith despite the fact that he spent approximately the same time focused on each woman.
Before the release of FFVII, a commercial for it was aired on TV. In this commercial, it showed Cloud laying Aerith into the water, with the word "love" superimposed above it. The narrator then stated, "...a story of a love that could never be..." This statement clearly spoke of a romantic love between two people and the tragedy that would separate them. In fact, this definition of the statement "a love that could never be" is supported by two experts at AllExperts.com. You can see their answers here and here. Why would Square portray Cloud and Aerith as the intended couple of the game in this commercial if they were not? Some people, people without a hint of common sense, like to say that this commercial was not made by Square and, therefore, it is not official. How idiotic! Whoever made it was hired by Square, right? And, so they would have been given information regarding FFVII, like who was the hero, who was the villain, and who loved who, right? Do you honestly think Square would have allowed a commercial to be released if it portrayed something false??? The commercial is official, so deal with it. That line was even used in the official FFVII tagline, according to IMDb: "The story of a love that can never be, and a hate that always was". Oh, and BTW, Tifa was shown in the commercial, too. She was shown, alone, at the end, with the narrator saying, "...will never come to a theater near you..." So, she was portrayed as she was meant to be-- alone
Cloud and Aerith appear together in official artwork by Yoshitaka Amano. Some people try to argue this point by saying that Amano had "nothing to do with FFVII", which is completely untrue. Amano was the character designer for all of the Final Fantasy games until Tetsuya Nomura took over for FFVII. Amano still did much of the visual design for FFVII and much of the artwork, even though Nomura's was also used. So, yes, he was involved in FFVII and his artwork is considered official. This should be obvious when looking at Amano's designs for the characters of FFVII. Many of the FFVII characters resemble the original Amano designs. Amano's artwork is still considered appropriate and significant today, as it is displayed with all of the official FF artwork, right alongside that of Nomura. In fact, the cover of the FFVII Original Soundtrack is Amano artwork of Cloud with Aerith
So, in case you still haven't figured it out, let me clue you in... Amano only draws canon couples. Do you see any drawings by him of SquallxQuistis, AuronxLulu, or CloudxTifa? No. Amano will also draw the antagonist and protagonist (villain and heroine) together, portraying light and dark. Some examples of Amano art with the villain and heroine together are his art of Seymour with Yuna and his art of Sephiroth with Aerith. Some people claim that Amano's art of Sephiroth with Aerith is romantic. I am sorry to burst your bubble, but since when do romantic couples threaten each other? That's right... In one of the pictures of Sephiroth with Aerith, Sephiroth is holding his sword to Aerith's throat. Yeah, watch out for the romance there, buddy... XD Amano will also draw friends together, as he drew Cloud with Red XIII. However, do you once see Amano portraying Cloud with Tifa? No. And Amano was quite aware of the changes to the storyline, including the death of Aerith and the addition of Tifa (added late in the game). However, he still did not draw Cloud and Tifa together. Tifa is portrayed alone in Amano's works, as she was in the game, and as she is in Advent Children. So, my question for you CloTis is: If Amano's art is considered canon for all of the other Final Fantasy games, then why would you claim that his art of Cloud and Aerith is not considered canon???
now read this before replying again! that is solid proof
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![.[.pink.spider.].'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/8d/e7/20e4103e1de78d_flip.png?t=1252290266_6.00_00)
