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[BlkCat]

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:03 pm


blindfaith^_^
[BlkCat]

"If any being is almighty, can he make a an object so large that he cannot even move it?"


An all powerful being could do that. He, She, or it could alter the rules that affect them at any time they wanted for any reason. This includes altering the rules so that he she or it has created so large a rock that he she or it can not move it. And if he she or it needed to move it or wanted to for some reason he she or it could alter the rules back so that they could do so.

The best part about being all powerful is that if you don't like the rules you can change them. I wish I could do that when I play Monopoly.


You don't seem to comprehend the meaning of that paradox.

If a being is ALMIGHTY can he/she create an object that he/she CANNOT move?

CANNOT, under ANY circumstances. No matter what, the answer is no, thus no being can be almighty.


Plus, if YHWH created evil and knew of evil before he created it, he must have evil in him, which would make him imperfect in the divine sense. A sinner.


And it's not satan, it's Lucifer. Satan is a title, Lucifer is a name.

It's like angels and demons...THEY'RE THE SAME THING, just one group was cast down from heaven and one group wasn't. "God" isn't his name, YHWH is the closest to being accurate you can get.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:06 am


[BlkCat]

You don't seem to comprehend the meaning of that paradox.


Sure I do, paradox is a statement that seems to be contradictory but still may be true.

Quote:
If a being is ALMIGHTY can he/she create an object that he/she CANNOT move?

CANNOT, under ANY circumstances. No matter what, the answer is no, thus no being can be almighty.


But they are all mighty. They don't have to follow the same rules that we have to. The being can change and alter the rules however he or she pleases whenever they please.


Quote:
Plus, if YHWH created evil and knew of evil before he created it, he must have evil in him, which would make him imperfect in the divine sense. A sinner.


YHVH knows everything, you don't have to be something to know about it though.


Quote:
And it's not satan, it's Lucifer. Satan is a title, Lucifer is a name.


I don't really want to get into the Satan vs. Lucifer fight in the name for the devil. I will say that it seems to me that Satan would make more sense as it orginally means advisary in Hebrew and is traditionally used in Abrahamic faiths as the devil's name. While Lucifer means ligher bearer or morning star and seems to be a bit of a controversy over how appropriate it is to call Lucifer the Christian devil as he initially was more closelt aligne with a Promethus like myth.

Quote:
It's like angels and demons...THEY'RE THE SAME THING, just one group was cast down from heaven and one group wasn't. "God" isn't his name, YHWH is the closest to being accurate you can get.

Angels and demons do generally represent one's ability to use free will and how choice and not creation is what makes a monster sure.

And true God isn't the name, though last I checked YHWH and YHVH were both appropriate abbrievations and most people also accept Yeshua bin Yosef or just Yeshua.

blindfaith^_^

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[BlkCat]

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:24 am


blindfaith^_^
[BlkCat]

You don't seem to comprehend the meaning of that paradox.


Sure I do, paradox is a statement that seems to be contradictory but still may be true.

Quote:
If a being is ALMIGHTY can he/she create an object that he/she CANNOT move?

CANNOT, under ANY circumstances. No matter what, the answer is no, thus no being can be almighty.


You're still not getting the key words here.

CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

Changing the rules is a circumstance, therefore the answer is still no, he cannot.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:03 pm


[BlkCat]
The Resurrection
I feel so confused when I see people attach such value to life. I'm never sure whether I should be sad for them, angry at them, or simply laugh at them. It's quite troubling indeed.


Life is worth nothing, human or otherwise.


So are you saying I can kill your parents and you wont be upset? =D




(sorry people, sometimes you HAVE to be brutal to get a point across)


Go for it.

I can't believe you think that post is brutal or even remotely near it though.

The Resurrection


The Resurrection

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:09 pm


[BlkCat]
blindfaith^_^
[BlkCat]

You don't seem to comprehend the meaning of that paradox.


Sure I do, paradox is a statement that seems to be contradictory but still may be true.


[BlkCat]
If a being is ALMIGHTY can he/she create an object that he/she CANNOT move?

CANNOT, under ANY circumstances. No matter what, the answer is no, thus no being can be almighty.


You're still not getting the key words here.

CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

Changing the rules is a circumstance, therefore the answer is still no, he cannot.


Your simple little mind is only capable of thinking inside of the box, how sad. sad

Not that I believe in Christianity on any level. I just think your arguments against it are fairly poor. A better place to create the foundation of your assault would be the Problem of Hell, the general vagueness of both event and dogma, human fallibility, and delusion and deceit.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:12 pm


[BlkCat]
You're still not getting the key words here.

CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

Changing the rules is a circumstance, therefore the answer is still no, he cannot.


I get the wording, but I think you've forgotten the great thing about being ominpotent. All powerful means you make the rules and circumstances.

I know that you don't agree with my response to the god and big rock problem, so let me throw out the technical definition of omipotent. Definition number two at www.m-w.com says "having virtually unlimited authority or influence". Under that defintion, YHVH is still omnipotent. Besides why would you want to make something so big you couldn't move it?

And Resurrection, I'd agree that the nature of evil and specific wording around that would be a greater base to attack Christianity. Dogma, mistranslation, and reasoning for including or discluding parts of the bible into offical cannon is also worth talking about. I personally am a big fan of Hume's work specifically in the problem of evil.

blindfaith^_^

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[BlkCat]

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 2:08 pm


blindfaith^_^
[BlkCat]
You're still not getting the key words here.

CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

Changing the rules is a circumstance, therefore the answer is still no, he cannot.


I get the wording, but I think you've forgotten the great thing about being ominpotent. All powerful means you make the rules and circumstances.

I know that you don't agree with my response to the god and big rock problem, so let me throw out the technical definition of omipotent. Definition number two at www.m-w.com says "having virtually unlimited authority or influence". Under that defintion, YHVH is still omnipotent. Besides why would you want to make something so big you couldn't move it?

And Resurrection, I'd agree that the nature of evil and specific wording around that would be a greater base to attack Christianity. Dogma, mistranslation, and reasoning for including or discluding parts of the bible into offical cannon is also worth talking about. I personally am a big fan of Hume's work specifically in the problem of evil.


One, where in the bible does it say that YHWH is omnipotent? I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm genuinely curious xD.

But what I simply said is, under any circumstances, which negates any authority or ability to change the rules.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:40 pm


Like people have already said, a life of equal value to another does not mean that the consequences of the actions we make in our lives after death are going to be the same, and it doesn't mean that the actions we make in our lives are the same. So if all lives were of equal value, what would that imply? I would think it would imply mainly that people deserve to be treated the same that you would treat yourself, criminals included. This being my opinion. And also, if one was to disagree with murder, this can also imply that a life is of equal value to another, however this does not mean that actions in one's life are equal to another's.

We should feel sorry for people with misfortunes, people who don't know any better icluding people who have killed others.

O n y x


[BlkCat]

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:05 pm


O n y x


We should feel sorry for people with misfortunes, people who don't know any better icluding people who have killed others.



People kill others because they don't know any better? Wow...I hope I'm misunderstanding you because thats the most bs thing I've heard since:

"Rapists and murderers are good people on the inside, they do those things because of how they were raised. It's not their fault."
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:44 pm


[BlkCat]
O n y x


We should feel sorry for people with misfortunes, people who don't know any better icluding people who have killed others.



People kill others because they don't know any better? Wow...I hope I'm misunderstanding you because thats the most bs thing I've heard since:

"Rapists and murderers are good people on the inside, they do those things because of how they were raised. It's not their fault."


People who kill others don't know any better, otherwise they wouldn't be killing people in the first place, that is, if you believe murder is wrong, which I said in my post that this is my opinion.

That quote you gave me is completely different to whay I'm saying, so don't put words into what I'm saying, you're creating chaos where there is none.

O n y x


[BlkCat]

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:26 am


O n y x
[BlkCat]
O n y x


We should feel sorry for people with misfortunes, people who don't know any better icluding people who have killed others.



People kill others because they don't know any better? Wow...I hope I'm misunderstanding you because thats the most bs thing I've heard since:

"Rapists and murderers are good people on the inside, they do those things because of how they were raised. It's not their fault."


People who kill others don't know any better, otherwise they wouldn't be killing people in the first place, that is, if you believe murder is wrong, which I said in my post that this is my opinion.

That quote you gave me is completely different to whay I'm saying, so don't put words into what I'm saying, you're creating chaos where there is none.



I wasn't applying what you said to the quote, I was saying they were both equally absurd.


So if I kill somebody then I don't know any better? I'm just trying to get what you said straight so I'm not confused.

What if I just thought taking somebody's life was fun? Exciting? I know exactly what I'd be doing, I'd be ending the physical life of somebody of whom everybody around them that loved them would suffer if they were lost. What if that thrilled me? How is that not knowing any better? I'd know exactly what I was doing and the other options I had.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:21 am


[BlkCat]


One, where in the bible does it say that YHWH is omnipotent? I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm genuinely curious xD.

But what I simply said is, under any circumstances, which negates any authority or ability to change the rules.
I don't know where it states it in the bible, I can't usually quote scriputure line for line. It is possible that the bible doesn't claim God is omnipotent, but I'm pretty sure someone else would have caught that slip up by now. I'd imagine that when we talk about creation it might get into God as the all knowing all powerful kind of guy.

blindfaith^_^

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O n y x

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:09 am


[BlkCat]
O n y x
[BlkCat]
O n y x


We should feel sorry for people with misfortunes, people who don't know any better icluding people who have killed others.



People kill others because they don't know any better? Wow...I hope I'm misunderstanding you because thats the most bs thing I've heard since:

"Rapists and murderers are good people on the inside, they do those things because of how they were raised. It's not their fault."


People who kill others don't know any better, otherwise they wouldn't be killing people in the first place, that is, if you believe murder is wrong, which I said in my post that this is my opinion.

That quote you gave me is completely different to whay I'm saying, so don't put words into what I'm saying, you're creating chaos where there is none.



I wasn't applying what you said to the quote, I was saying they were both equally absurd.


So if I kill somebody then I don't know any better? I'm just trying to get what you said straight so I'm not confused.

What if I just thought taking somebody's life was fun? Exciting? I know exactly what I'd be doing, I'd be ending the physical life of somebody of whom everybody around them that loved them would suffer if they were lost. What if that thrilled me? How is that not knowing any better? I'd know exactly what I was doing and the other options I had.


Reading this, obviously you can't judge whether if it's equally absurd or not, if you can't even understand what I'm saying.

The murder is just the ending of a physical life, and loved-ones are sad, perceptive, and this is your opinion. A murderer who knows why they have killed, is not exactly the knowledge I'm talking about, to not know any better doesn't mean that they're unknowledgable. It's not really that complicated.
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:15 pm


[BlkCat]
blindfaith^_^
[BlkCat]

If you mean YHWH, you're still off, he's not perfect nor is he almighty. Thats a simple fact confused


How is this a fact?



"If any being is almighty, can he make a an object so large that he cannot even move it?"


And, for the imperfect part. YHWH created the tree of life, he created a temptation for adam and eve.

"If you eat from this tree you will be come like god, knowing of good and evil".


God knew of evil? Yes, he created it, lucifer.



Your question assumes that there is a possibility of there being a greater object than God himself, if this is not so then the scenario itself is nothing more than a trick question

God created Lucifer but didnt Lucifer choose to be evil.

God created people, but people choose to be evil.

anyway, not that it matters, because there's a possibility that he doesnt even exist.

CabrionDeluviant


CabrionDeluviant

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:24 pm


O n y x
[BlkCat]
O n y x
[BlkCat]
O n y x


We should feel sorry for people with misfortunes, people who don't know any better icluding people who have killed others.



People kill others because they don't know any better? Wow...I hope I'm misunderstanding you because thats the most bs thing I've heard since:

"Rapists and murderers are good people on the inside, they do those things because of how they were raised. It's not their fault."


People who kill others don't know any better, otherwise they wouldn't be killing people in the first place, that is, if you believe murder is wrong, which I said in my post that this is my opinion.

That quote you gave me is completely different to whay I'm saying, so don't put words into what I'm saying, you're creating chaos where there is none.



I wasn't applying what you said to the quote, I was saying they were both equally absurd.


So if I kill somebody then I don't know any better? I'm just trying to get what you said straight so I'm not confused.

What if I just thought taking somebody's life was fun? Exciting? I know exactly what I'd be doing, I'd be ending the physical life of somebody of whom everybody around them that loved them would suffer if they were lost. What if that thrilled me? How is that not knowing any better? I'd know exactly what I was doing and the other options I had.


Reading this, obviously you can't judge whether if it's equally absurd or not, if you can't even understand what I'm saying.

The murder is just the ending of a physical life, and loved-ones are sad, perceptive, and this is your opinion. A murderer who knows why they have killed, is not exactly the knowledge I'm talking about, to not know any better doesn't mean that they're unknowledgable. It's not really that complicated.


so a murderer who understands that he/she is causing suffering and loss to everyone who knew his/her victim isnt to blame?
that just makes it worse i would say.

a crime is not so much a crime if the being committing them has never been told anything different, you cant take a wild dog into a house then kill it cause it pissed on your carpet, you never set any ground rules.

now if the dog knew damn well that it wasnt supposed to piss on your carpet and did it anyway, knowing that you would have to work hard on it undo the action, then set the punishment because it was rightfully earned.

with people however, you cant justify murder, someone who goes around murdering people because they truly dont know any better are too dangerous to keep alive or uncontained.

people that kill knowing damn well that people will suffer and that they are causing suffering by killing someone, well, they've earned their punishment.
and are completely to blame.
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