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 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:36 pm
Tyshia2 divineseraph Could it be possible that you are pro-choice primarily due to your irrational fear? I don't think primarily, because I knew how I felt about abortion before I realized how much pregnancy scared me.
My father explained the issue to me when I was about 11 because I asked a question about something in the paper on abortion. He summed up both sides alright, (pro-choice: it's the woman's right to decide when she has a baby; pro-life: the baby deserves to live) and I liked the pro-choice idea more even then. (Even as a teeny kid, I was super into politics and pretty avidly for individual rights. I blame my dad. 3nodding )
Anyway, I didn't realize I was scared of pregnancy until a little after my first "time of the month" a year or so later, because I realized I could get pregnant then and I started thinking about what it meant.
Yeah, the fear probably makes me more pro-choice than I would probably be otherwise just because I know in that situation and for other women with my same fears in that situation, an unwanted pregnancy isn't just an annoyance or at a bad time. But overall, I don't think that's a major reason why I am. I'm Pro-Choice and I want to be pregnant, in a couple years when we can afford a child.
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:23 pm
divineseraph Could it be possible that you are pro-choice primarily due to your irrational fear?
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:40 pm
Tyshia2
I take tons of herbal cures for parasites regularly, just in case I somehow get one.
Er...that may not be safe...what exactly do you take, if I might ask? --your friendly neighbourhood pharmacy student/tech
Also, it seems my hair has started a trend.
Shut up, it was totally MY hair. scream
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:58 pm
While they say that the pain is one of the most horrible natural pains that we as femals can go through, thats also why there are are such things as epidurals. Granted I myself am terrified of the procedure, but I'll more then likely be in too much pain to care.
Also, most women who chose to give birth would argue that this particular pain is worth it, but I wont know myself for another six months.
Now if the person is arguing the physical and mintal trauma of giving birth, one can also argue such on having abortion. This is not a good argument to try and sway someone either way as there are possible issues concerning such on both sides.
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:16 pm
Veolin While they say that the pain is one of the most horrible natural pains that we as femals can go through, thats also why there are are such things as epidurals. Granted I myself am terrified of the procedure, but I'll more then likely be in too much pain to care. Also, most women who chose to give birth would argue that this particular pain is worth it, but I wont know myself for another six months. Now if the person is arguing the physical and mintal trauma of giving birth, one can also argue such on having abortion. This is not a good argument to try and sway someone either way as there are possible issues concerning such on both sides. Well i've never been pregnant nor have I gave birth so I can't much about the pain (I've been through alot of pain. Right now I even have an ulcer so I don't know if it's the worse natural pain or not). But I heard Epidurals help alot and usually you don't feel it all that much. Mental trauma? I never heard people say giving birth was mentally traumatizing (not unless the child was given up for adoption or something). But abortions can be very traumatic according to studies (depends on each woman). I suppose that anything can be traumatizing if they are scared, don't know what will happen, or don't want to go through with something (giving birth or having an abortion).
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:30 am
sachiko_sohma Veolin While they say that the pain is one of the most horrible natural pains that we as femals can go through, thats also why there are are such things as epidurals. Granted I myself am terrified of the procedure, but I'll more then likely be in too much pain to care. Also, most women who chose to give birth would argue that this particular pain is worth it, but I wont know myself for another six months. Now if the person is arguing the physical and mintal trauma of giving birth, one can also argue such on having abortion. This is not a good argument to try and sway someone either way as there are possible issues concerning such on both sides. Well i've never been pregnant nor have I gave birth so I can't much about the pain (I've been through alot of pain. Right now I even have an ulcer so I don't know if it's the worse natural pain or not). But I heard Epidurals help alot and usually you don't feel it all that much. Mental trauma? I never heard people say giving birth was mentally traumatizing (not unless the child was given up for adoption or something). But abortions can be very traumatic according to studies (depends on each woman). I suppose that anything can be traumatizing if they are scared, don't know what will happen, or don't want to go through with something (giving birth or having an abortion). There is more to mental trauma than just being scared. Post partum depression (I think) could be considered mental trauma caused by birth (or, at least, caused by pregnancy hormones). My sister described it as being really sad and scared that her son was no longer inside her, where she could better protect him. But I agree that both depression and fear can be present for an abortion also.
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:57 pm
La Veuve Zin Tyshia2
I take tons of herbal cures for parasites regularly, just in case I somehow get one.
Er...that may not be safe...what exactly do you take, if I might ask? --your friendly neighbourhood pharmacy student/tech
Also, it seems my hair has started a trend.
Shut up, it was totally MY hair. scream Don't worry. That's why I stuck to herbal remidies instead of "regular" medicines.
I researched a lot before I started using them, and I made sure to ask local pharmacists and my local health food guy about the herbs and their other affects on the body. They all gave me the go-ahead.
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:46 pm
I was very afraid of giving birth, the pregnancy part was cool though. When it came to giving birth, the doc induced, then said I needed a c-section because the baby's heartbeat was stopping with my contractions. At that point, it was like "tear me open whatever, I just want my baby to be okay" and she was okay. Perfect actually. I did have alot of problems afterwards though. The c-section cut got infected, I had swollen legs from all the fluid given to me through the IV, and I couldn't breastfeed because of all the problems with my body. I would do it again in a heartbeat for her, or for a second child.
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:15 am
Given the fact that this baby should be out of me in a couple of weeks, I promise to come back and give you all an account of what it was like.
Has this pregnancy been hell? Yes and no.
I was so morning sick for the first four and a half months that I was hospitalized because I couldn't keep water down. Now, I can eat pretty well what ever I want, and I'm hardly gaining any weight smile
When my husband and I first got pregnant, there were so many people that were very happy for us (despite the fact that this pregnancy was unplanned and entirely unexpected), and helped us in many many ways. When we first told my mother-in-law, she accused me of being a slut, seducing her son, stealing his seed to make a baby so that I could ruin her plans for him. I'm not kidding. And this lady's not even, like, a religious zealot or anything. Just plain crazy. :S
The first little while that I felt my baby kick was so exciting. Then Brandon found my ribs and other organs, and eventually ended up with his feet planted firmly in my spine/lower back, making me go into false labour (where I've been for the last 3 or 4 weeks).
I am very excited and scared for my baby to get here. I'd like the waiting to be over, but I'm happy that I'm in a good mood most of the time. I wasn't about half-way through my pregnancy; due to hormonal imbalances, I got severely depressed (something I've never experienced before, ever), and had to go onto anti-depressants.
So, in conclusion, I've experienced both good and bad with my pregnancy. Some of the worst things, and some of the best. I dislike using 'pregnancy can be awful' as an argument when debating, because so many pro-choicers like to claim that potential has nothing to do with the abortion debate. In that case, neither does the potential that a pregnancy can be terrible, right?
I think that I would only ever bring it up if someone were trying to talk about the possible effects, etc, of abortions.
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:26 am
In talking about epidurals ... well ... women have been (and still are, I might add) been giving birth for hundreds of years without them. Your body releases endorphines right after you give birth to help ease the pain (the women that experience little to no pain during childbirth tend to have those endorphines released earlier, because their body tends to know what's going on the more pregnancies they've had), and to help you forget how painful the experience actually was. Or so I'm told. I'll let you know, after I've had my baby (we're hopefully going without the epidural, although not without other drugs).
Giving birth is pretty mentally traumatizing, and not only for the woman giving birth. Beyond the whole 'there was a person inside me, and I could feel him moving, and now I can't' thing, there's the whole 'omg, I've just been ripped almost literally end to end'. Some women (and men too) actually get symptoms of a post-traumatic stress disorder after giving birth, particularly if it's a rather long, painful or complicated birth. They give you a mirror to watch, if you want, and I've heard stories of women asking for it, and then really REALLY wishing that they hadn't.
Other women feel that they have somehow 'failed', at giving birth if they require an epidural, or a c-section, or pain medication of any kind.
There are all kinds of mental traumas related to pregnancy and giving birth. Same goes for having an abortion. Using the argument either way in a debate is silly, because it could be equally traumatizing on both sides.
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:41 am
When my best friend was pregnant (and she is a member of the guild now so she can probably give a better, fuller account than I can but I'll try XD) her pregnancy was pretty good. There were a couple things like, if she drank orange juice Kaylee started moving around a lot, that were kind of odd but other than that nothing big at the beginning.
Then near the end she got gestational diabetes, and was in the hospital for like the last 3 weeks of her pregnancy. I remember once her mom snuck in a doughnut and it was really bad. She wasn't allowed walking anywhere, so I would go visit every Wednesday after school and if she felt up to going to her pre-natal classes I'd have to get a wheelchair for her and wheel her down. If she didn't feel up to it she and I would just hang out.
At one point they were going to induce labour (I think it was getting too dangerous for her to continue pregnancy) but Kaylee's lungs weren't fully developed, so they decided that they would induce like the next Saturday. Anyway Danielle went into labour naturally the day before they were supposed to induce. Her labour was pretty good, she didn't have an epidural, but did have a sort of gas that's supposed to take the edge off the pain (she said it didn't help, it just gave her something to bite down on). All in all her labour lasted, I believe, 14 hours which isn't too bad for a first time pregnancy (compared to my mothers 40 hours with me :S).
Working at a Maternity Clothing store I've heard some pretty crazy stories though, like a woman whose labour was 2 hours long, and her mother who was only in labour for half an hour, for one of her children.
As well, on the subject of epidurals, I know my mom had one with me and then decided to do labour naturally with my sister. After she did that, though she was like "WHY would I ever do this to myself!?" not that she regrets not having an epidural (I don't think it matters much anymore) but at the time she wished she had ordered one.
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:36 am
Barely_evil I was very afraid of giving birth, the pregnancy part was cool though. When it came to giving birth, the doc induced, then said I needed a c-section because the baby's heartbeat was stopping with my contractions. At that point, it was like "tear me open whatever, I just want my baby to be okay" and she was okay. Perfect actually. I did have alot of problems afterwards though. The c-section cut got infected, I had swollen legs from all the fluid given to me through the IV, and I couldn't breastfeed because of all the problems with my body. I would do it again in a heartbeat for her, or for a second child. Your determination is very admirable. 3nodding
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:40 am
miyo_esparanza In talking about epidurals ... well ... women have been (and still are, I might add) been giving birth for hundreds of years without them. Your body releases endorphines right after you give birth to help ease the pain (the women that experience little to no pain during childbirth tend to have those endorphines released earlier, because their body tends to know what's going on the more pregnancies they've had), and to help you forget how painful the experience actually was. Or so I'm told. I'll let you know, after I've had my baby (we're hopefully going without the epidural, although not without other drugs).
Giving birth is pretty mentally traumatizing, and not only for the woman giving birth. Beyond the whole 'there was a person inside me, and I could feel him moving, and now I can't' thing, there's the whole 'omg, I've just been ripped almost literally end to end'. Some women (and men too) actually get symptoms of a post-traumatic stress disorder after giving birth, particularly if it's a rather long, painful or complicated birth. They give you a mirror to watch, if you want, and I've heard stories of women asking for it, and then really REALLY wishing that they hadn't.
Other women feel that they have somehow 'failed', at giving birth if they require an epidural, or a c-section, or pain medication of any kind.
There are all kinds of mental traumas related to pregnancy and giving birth. Same goes for having an abortion. Using the argument either way in a debate is silly, because it could be equally traumatizing on both sides. A great deal of mental trauma comes with living. In hindsight, I can see so many things that just... devastated me. At the time, my participation in such activities seemed completely fine. But now, looking back, so much of what I did ended up really hurting me. Sometimes it was because I did something I probably should not have. Other times... just by waking up in the morning, I was setting myself up for disaster. A bad day is going to be bad no matter what you try to do. I think a lot can be said about the two demographics that get the most abortions: Middle aged women with children, and young women right out of high school. For the former, they are being hypocritical for after all, did they not already go through a pregnancy? For the latter, I think a great deal of trauma comes with sex at such a young age and pregnancy when you're... 18, 19 years old. But it's interesting to think that 2000 years ago, that was actually late.
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:39 pm
kp is dcvi A great deal of mental trauma comes with living. In hindsight, I can see so many things that just... devastated me. At the time, my participation in such activities seemed completely fine. But now, looking back, so much of what I did ended up really hurting me. Sometimes it was because I did something I probably should not have. Other times... just by waking up in the morning, I was setting myself up for disaster. A bad day is going to be bad no matter what you try to do. I think a lot can be said about the two demographics that get the most abortions: Middle aged women with children, and young women right out of high school. For the former, they are being hypocritical for after all, did they not already go through a pregnancy? For the latter, I think a great deal of trauma comes with sex at such a young age and pregnancy when you're... 18, 19 years old. But it's interesting to think that 2000 years ago, that was actually late.
I don't think that most middle aged women that already have children are getting abortions because pregnancy was a terrible experience (although I *could* see some of them justifying it that way). I know that for me, personally, if I got pregnant right after this baby was born, I'd abort. I'd do it because I wouldn't want to ruin the lives of my existing children, my husband, myself, or the life of my unborn child. I would not want to bring a child into the world that I couldn't care for. I love my babies too much for that.
I agree that sex too young, or pregnancy before the maturity to handle it can be very VERY traumatizing. But, like you said, just plain ol' living can be mentally traumatizing.
Hell, even 100 years ago, having your first babies around 20 was late. That doesn't meant that having them that early wasn't traumatizing.
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:37 pm
miyo_esparanza kp is dcvi A great deal of mental trauma comes with living. In hindsight, I can see so many things that just... devastated me. At the time, my participation in such activities seemed completely fine. But now, looking back, so much of what I did ended up really hurting me. Sometimes it was because I did something I probably should not have. Other times... just by waking up in the morning, I was setting myself up for disaster. A bad day is going to be bad no matter what you try to do. I think a lot can be said about the two demographics that get the most abortions: Middle aged women with children, and young women right out of high school. For the former, they are being hypocritical for after all, did they not already go through a pregnancy? For the latter, I think a great deal of trauma comes with sex at such a young age and pregnancy when you're... 18, 19 years old. But it's interesting to think that 2000 years ago, that was actually late.
I don't think that most middle aged women that already have children are getting abortions because pregnancy was a terrible experience (although I *could* see some of them justifying it that way). I know that for me, personally, if I got pregnant right after this baby was born, I'd abort. I'd do it because I wouldn't want to ruin the lives of my existing children, my husband, myself, or the life of my unborn child. I would not want to bring a child into the world that I couldn't care for. I love my babies too much for that.
I agree that sex too young, or pregnancy before the maturity to handle it can be very VERY traumatizing. But, like you said, just plain ol' living can be mentally traumatizing.
Hell, even 100 years ago, having your first babies around 20 was late. That doesn't meant that having them that early wasn't traumatizing.No no, on the contrary, I was saying that middle aged women who have children are probably less likely to have a hard time with a pregnancy IF they have had children before. Moreover-- I can't begin to fathom what it must have been like to have children at like... fourteen. Was it traumatizing? Maybe it was normal way back then. Maybe it can be normal today... imagine going to your family at 13 and telling them you are pregnant. Perhaps if they all patted you on the back, maybe the feelings would be different. But I can't begin to imagine, again.
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