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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:47 am
Mr. Cynical Yes you should've. And again, just because he conquered a s**t ton doesn't mean he was right about that. I mean, why would that make any sense at all? You have a perfectly conditioned fighter, tough as nails, calm under stress and willing to fight. Then on the other hand, you have the non-athlete, the unconditioned, soft, scared shitless guy. See how this doesn't add up? Well his prowes as a fighter did prove a lot. Alexander was not a commander who stood behind bodyguards. He was always the first to go into battle leading his armies against the persians. And why should one example of a fighter be out of shape and the other (your own I presume) in peak condition? I never mentioned anything about letting your body go. There are not many calm boxers and MMA fighters. Well unless you count the Russians. And what are they practicing exactly? -hint, hint.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:57 am
Section 17.100.1-101.6 of World history (Diodorus of Sicily). The translation is by C. Bradford Welles. Quote: In the course of the drinking [during a banquet] a curious event occurred which is worth mention. Among the king's companions there was a Macedonian named Coragus, strong in body, who had distinguished himself many times in battle. His temper was sharpened by the drink, and he challenged to single combat Dioxippus the Athenian, an athlete who had won a crown in the foremost games.[1] As you would expect, the guests at the banquet egged them on and Dioxippus accepted. The king set a day for the contest, and when the time came, many myriads of men gathered to see the spectacle. The Macedonians and Alexander backed Coragus because he was one of them, while the Greeks backed Dioxippus. The two advanced to the field of honor, the Macedonian clad in his expensive armor but the Athenian naked, his body oiled, carrying a well-balanced club. [...] By his carriage and the brilliance of his arms, the Macedonian inspired terror as if he were Ares, while Dioxippus excelled in sheer strength and condition still more because of his club he bore a certain resemblance to Heracles. As they approached each other, the Macedonian flung his javelin from a proper distance, but the other inclined his body slightly and avoided its impact. Then the Macedonian poised his long lance and charged, but the Greek, when he came within reach, struck the spear with his club and shattered it. After these two defeats, Coragus was reduced to continuing the battle with his sword, but as he reached for it, the other leaped upon him and seized his swordhand with his left, while with his right hand the Greek upset the Macedonian's balance and made him lose his footing. As he fell to the earth, Dioxippus placed his foot upon his neck and, holding his club aloft, looked to the spectators. The crowd was in an uproar because of the stunning quickness and superiority of the man's skill, and the king signed to let Coragus go, then broke up the gathering and left. He was plainly annoyed at the defeat of the Macedonian. Dioxippus released his fallen opponent, and left the field winner of a resounding victory and bedecked with ribands by his compatriots, as having brought a common glory to all Greeks. Fortune, however, did not allow him to boast of his victory for long. The king continued more and more hostile to him, and Alexander's friends and all the other Macedonians about the court, jealous of the accomplishment, persuaded one of the butlers to secrete a golden cup under the pillow [of his banqueting couch]; then in the course of the next symposium they accused him of theft, and pretending to find the cup, placed Dioxippus in a shameful and embarrassing position. He saw that the Macedonians were in league against him and left the banquet. After a little he came to his own quarters, wrote Alexander a letter about the trick that had been played on him, gave this to his servants to take to the king, and then took his own life. [...] The king read the letter and was very angry at the man's death. He often mourned his good qualities, and the man whom he had neglected when he was alive, he regretted when he was dead. No, he wasn't someone who stood behind some badass guys to fight his battles for him. DUH. And I know you didn't say anything about letting themselves go. I'm saying that you have an athlete vs the non athlete. And then I said, who is going to do things better? The athlete, because why? That is what he does, physical activity. Did the warriors in Alexander's army do physical activity yes, they had to. But still, non athlete vs athlete in terms of efficacy in combat? Come on.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:59 am
ArtHic Mr. Cynical Yes you should've. And again, just because he conquered a s**t ton doesn't mean he was right about that. I mean, why would that make any sense at all? You have a perfectly conditioned fighter, tough as nails, calm under stress and willing to fight. Then on the other hand, you have the non-athlete, the unconditioned, soft, scared shitless guy. See how this doesn't add up? Well his prowes as a fighter did prove a lot. Alexander was not a commander who stood behind bodyguards. He was always the first to go into battle leading his armies against the persians. And why should one example of a fighter be out of shape and the other (your own I presume) in peak condition? I never mentioned anything about letting your body go. There are not many calm boxers and MMA fighters. Well unless you count the Russians. And what are they practicing exactly? -hint, hint. Except that there are plenty calm boxers and MMA fighters. You don't see many of them, before a match, go nuts. You see that after, and that's when and if they have a victory. And what are you hinting at? Systema? Because that s**t is gayer than gay.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:43 pm
ArtHic What style do you practice? As Cyn says, I primarily train WTF style TKD, though I originally started in Hwarangdo (which was essentially a feel good generic karate/tkd school though that wasn't afraid to crosstrain so I actually have some small BJJ experience because of it) when I was younger, also wrestled in school, and I also now train Muay Thai as a side art to round myself out. I'm also a Buddhist and have studied ancient Chinese history and my share of research on Eastern religions out of curiousity. Though what does any of that have to do w/ my argument? Rather than evade my argument w/ ad hominems, why not come w/ an intelligent response?
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:49 am
Mr. Cynical No, he wasn't someone who stood behind some badass guys to fight his battles for him. DUH. And I know you didn't say anything about letting themselves go. I'm saying that you have an athlete vs the non athlete. And then I said, who is going to do things better? The athlete, because why? That is what he does, physical activity. Did the warriors in Alexander's army do physical activity yes, they had to. But still, non athlete vs athlete in terms of efficacy in combat? Come on. I never said anything about non athletes; I don't know how you came to presume that. That was a good story I was not aware of. Is a track athlete superior to a boxer? We are talking about MA and cannot generalize. In your example the athlete was also a seasoned fighter and I cannot help but wonder what his profesion was back in Greece. And I don't think sports back then were practiced in the same way as today - the Olympics, and every other sports event, being a spiritual celebration. Modern MMA fighters are not that graceful. And just like in your example force without application is useless.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:57 am
TaeKyon ArtHic What style do you practice? As Cyn says, I primarily train WTF style TKD, though I originally started in Hwarangdo (which was essentially a feel good generic karate/tkd school though that wasn't afraid to crosstrain so I actually have some small BJJ experience because of it) when I was younger, also wrestled in school, and I also now train Muay Thai as a side art to round myself out. I'm also a Buddhist and have studied ancient Chinese history and my share of research on Eastern religions out of curiousity. Though what does any of that have to do w/ my argument? Rather than evade my argument w/ ad hominems, why not come w/ an intelligent response? I never claimed I am intelligent. Just look at my spelling. Why don't you ask your instructor's opinion on the effectivness of your art/practice? And for the record I know where you are comming from. I have experiense both in submisions and kick boxing (with emphasis on boxing).
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:59 am
Mr. Cynical ArtHic Mr. Cynical Yes you should've. And again, just because he conquered a s**t ton doesn't mean he was right about that. I mean, why would that make any sense at all? You have a perfectly conditioned fighter, tough as nails, calm under stress and willing to fight. Then on the other hand, you have the non-athlete, the unconditioned, soft, scared shitless guy. See how this doesn't add up? Well his prowes as a fighter did prove a lot. Alexander was not a commander who stood behind bodyguards. He was always the first to go into battle leading his armies against the persians. And why should one example of a fighter be out of shape and the other (your own I presume) in peak condition? I never mentioned anything about letting your body go. There are not many calm boxers and MMA fighters. Well unless you count the Russians. And what are they practicing exactly? -hint, hint. Except that there are plenty calm boxers and MMA fighters. You don't see many of them, before a match, go nuts. You see that after, and that's when and if they have a victory. And what are you hinting at? Systema? Because that s**t is gayer than gay. You are entitled to your opinion. I propose you share it with Vladimir. And Emelianenko is the best MMA fighter out there.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:15 am
ArtHic Mr. Cynical ArtHic Mr. Cynical Yes you should've. And again, just because he conquered a s**t ton doesn't mean he was right about that. I mean, why would that make any sense at all? You have a perfectly conditioned fighter, tough as nails, calm under stress and willing to fight. Then on the other hand, you have the non-athlete, the unconditioned, soft, scared shitless guy. See how this doesn't add up? Well his prowes as a fighter did prove a lot. Alexander was not a commander who stood behind bodyguards. He was always the first to go into battle leading his armies against the persians. And why should one example of a fighter be out of shape and the other (your own I presume) in peak condition? I never mentioned anything about letting your body go. There are not many calm boxers and MMA fighters. Well unless you count the Russians. And what are they practicing exactly? -hint, hint. Except that there are plenty calm boxers and MMA fighters. You don't see many of them, before a match, go nuts. You see that after, and that's when and if they have a victory. And what are you hinting at? Systema? Because that s**t is gayer than gay. You are entitled to your opinion. I propose you share it with Vladimir. And Emelianenko is the best MMA fighter out there. What does THAT have to do with anything at all? And I know Fedor is the best. That's a given.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:23 am
ArtHic Mr. Cynical No, he wasn't someone who stood behind some badass guys to fight his battles for him. DUH. And I know you didn't say anything about letting themselves go. I'm saying that you have an athlete vs the non athlete. And then I said, who is going to do things better? The athlete, because why? That is what he does, physical activity. Did the warriors in Alexander's army do physical activity yes, they had to. But still, non athlete vs athlete in terms of efficacy in combat? Come on. I never said anything about non athletes; I don't know how you came to presume that. That was a good story I was not aware of. Is a track athlete superior to a boxer? We are talking about MA and cannot generalize. In your example the athlete was also a seasoned fighter and I cannot help but wonder what his profesion was back in Greece. And I don't think sports back then were practiced in the same way as today - the Olympics, and every other sports event, being a spiritual celebration. Modern MMA fighters are not that graceful. And just like in your example force without application is useless. What you said: Alexander said that athletes don't make good soldiers. What is the opposite of an athlete? Non athlete. What I said: That's bullshit. I called out Alexander (even though you STILL have not cited any sources). What does the boxer vs a track runner have to do with anything? Quit adding red hearrings to the stew. The fighter was the basically the king of Pankration. He fought exclusively. Do you know why they aren't spiritual anymore? Oh that's right, because NO ONE wants that in anything anymore. You go to point sparring tournaments, full contact karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Grappling matches, and of MMA and you won't find ANYTHING spiritual. The only graceful thing that MMA fighters do is fight in the ring.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:25 am
ArtHic TaeKyon ArtHic What style do you practice? As Cyn says, I primarily train WTF style TKD, though I originally started in Hwarangdo (which was essentially a feel good generic karate/tkd school though that wasn't afraid to crosstrain so I actually have some small BJJ experience because of it) when I was younger, also wrestled in school, and I also now train Muay Thai as a side art to round myself out. I'm also a Buddhist and have studied ancient Chinese history and my share of research on Eastern religions out of curiousity. Though what does any of that have to do w/ my argument? Rather than evade my argument w/ ad hominems, why not come w/ an intelligent response? I never claimed I am intelligent. Just look at my spelling. Why don't you ask your instructor's opinion on the effectivness of your art/practice? Okay, right there. Just stop. That's like asking the president if it's right to bomb Iraq for oil. (does NOT reflect my views).
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:42 am
Mr. Cynical ArtHic Mr. Cynical ArtHic Mr. Cynical Yes you should've. And again, just because he conquered a s**t ton doesn't mean he was right about that. I mean, why would that make any sense at all? You have a perfectly conditioned fighter, tough as nails, calm under stress and willing to fight. Then on the other hand, you have the non-athlete, the unconditioned, soft, scared shitless guy. See how this doesn't add up? Well his prowes as a fighter did prove a lot. Alexander was not a commander who stood behind bodyguards. He was always the first to go into battle leading his armies against the persians. And why should one example of a fighter be out of shape and the other (your own I presume) in peak condition? I never mentioned anything about letting your body go. There are not many calm boxers and MMA fighters. Well unless you count the Russians. And what are they practicing exactly? -hint, hint. Except that there are plenty calm boxers and MMA fighters. You don't see many of them, before a match, go nuts. You see that after, and that's when and if they have a victory. And what are you hinting at? Systema? Because that s**t is gayer than gay. You are entitled to your opinion. I propose you share it with Vladimir. And Emelianenko is the best MMA fighter out there. What does THAT have to do with anything at all? And I know Fedor is the best. That's a given. Fedor practices systema.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:42 am
ArtHic Mr. Cynical ArtHic Mr. Cynical ArtHic Well his prowes as a fighter did prove a lot. Alexander was not a commander who stood behind bodyguards. He was always the first to go into battle leading his armies against the persians. And why should one example of a fighter be out of shape and the other (your own I presume) in peak condition? I never mentioned anything about letting your body go. There are not many calm boxers and MMA fighters. Well unless you count the Russians. And what are they practicing exactly? -hint, hint. Except that there are plenty calm boxers and MMA fighters. You don't see many of them, before a match, go nuts. You see that after, and that's when and if they have a victory. And what are you hinting at? Systema? Because that s**t is gayer than gay. You are entitled to your opinion. I propose you share it with Vladimir. And Emelianenko is the best MMA fighter out there. What does THAT have to do with anything at all? And I know Fedor is the best. That's a given. Fedor practices systema. No, he practices Sambo.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:59 am
Mr. Cynical ArtHic Mr. Cynical ArtHic Mr. Cynical ArtHic Well his prowes as a fighter did prove a lot. Alexander was not a commander who stood behind bodyguards. He was always the first to go into battle leading his armies against the persians. And why should one example of a fighter be out of shape and the other (your own I presume) in peak condition? I never mentioned anything about letting your body go. There are not many calm boxers and MMA fighters. Well unless you count the Russians. And what are they practicing exactly? -hint, hint. Except that there are plenty calm boxers and MMA fighters. You don't see many of them, before a match, go nuts. You see that after, and that's when and if they have a victory. And what are you hinting at? Systema? Because that s**t is gayer than gay. You are entitled to your opinion. I propose you share it with Vladimir. And Emelianenko is the best MMA fighter out there. What does THAT have to do with anything at all? And I know Fedor is the best. That's a given. Fedor practices systema. No, he practices Sambo. Sambo for sport, systema for combat.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 8:07 am
Mr. Cynical ArtHic TaeKyon ArtHic What style do you practice? As Cyn says, I primarily train WTF style TKD, though I originally started in Hwarangdo (which was essentially a feel good generic karate/tkd school though that wasn't afraid to crosstrain so I actually have some small BJJ experience because of it) when I was younger, also wrestled in school, and I also now train Muay Thai as a side art to round myself out. I'm also a Buddhist and have studied ancient Chinese history and my share of research on Eastern religions out of curiousity. Though what does any of that have to do w/ my argument? Rather than evade my argument w/ ad hominems, why not come w/ an intelligent response? I never claimed I am intelligent. Just look at my spelling. Why don't you ask your instructor's opinion on the effectivness of your art/practice? Okay, right there. Just stop. That's like asking the president if it's right to bomb Iraq for oil. (does NOT reflect my views). My kick-boxing and MMA instructors pointed out the shortcomings of their practices in the street, respectively.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 8:09 am
Mr. Cynical ArtHic Mr. Cynical No, he wasn't someone who stood behind some badass guys to fight his battles for him. DUH. And I know you didn't say anything about letting themselves go. I'm saying that you have an athlete vs the non athlete. And then I said, who is going to do things better? The athlete, because why? That is what he does, physical activity. Did the warriors in Alexander's army do physical activity yes, they had to. But still, non athlete vs athlete in terms of efficacy in combat? Come on. I never said anything about non athletes; I don't know how you came to presume that. That was a good story I was not aware of. Is a track athlete superior to a boxer? We are talking about MA and cannot generalize. In your example the athlete was also a seasoned fighter and I cannot help but wonder what his profesion was back in Greece. And I don't think sports back then were practiced in the same way as today - the Olympics, and every other sports event, being a spiritual celebration. Modern MMA fighters are not that graceful. And just like in your example force without application is useless. What you said: Alexander said that athletes don't make good soldiers. What is the opposite of an athlete? Non athlete. What I said: That's bullshit. I called out Alexander (even though you STILL have not cited any sources). What does the boxer vs a track runner have to do with anything? Quit adding red hearrings to the stew. The fighter was the basically the king of Pankration. He fought exclusively. Do you know why they aren't spiritual anymore? Oh that's right, because NO ONE wants that in anything anymore. You go to point sparring tournaments, full contact karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Grappling matches, and of MMA and you won't find ANYTHING spiritual. The only graceful thing that MMA fighters do is fight in the ring. You called out the incident of an Athenian warrior who also (and with great success) practised sports against a macedonian. Or do you think that they showed in Pancrace how to fight with a club and avoid incoming weapon attacks? His kinisiology reads very different than modern MMA. Plus he commited suicide in protest of injustice; his morals were obviously above the fear of death (and by today's examples this seemed very much like japanese sepuku). Plus the Athenians were very religious and spiritual as a people. I will try to search more details about the case you presented.
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