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 Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:24 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Lethkhar So if we have free will, how can God have a master plan without imposing on our free will? Because God's master plan doesn't dictate what we are going to do, it tells us what we have already done. Since, you see, God is trans-temporal (and, by proxy, omni-temporal) so, to God, all things are happening, have happened, and will happen at the exact same moment. And how do you know that?
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:55 am
Lethkhar And how do you know that? Same way I know 2+2=4. I can look at one aspect to a problem (God's omnipotence/omniscience) and another aspect (free will must exist) and come up with an answer that fits the parametres (omnitemporality).
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:30 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Lethkhar And how do you know that? Same way I know 2+2=4. I can look at one aspect to a problem (God's omnipotence/omniscience) and another aspect (free will must exist) and come up with an answer that fits the parametres (omnitemporality). You have to throw in omnibenevolence into the mix, which negates the argument since there is pain in the world. Your God is still illogical.
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:32 am
Lethkhar You have to throw in omnibenevolence into the mix, which negates the argument since there is pain in the world. Your God is still illogical. But God loves us, which means that He allows for our free will, thus allowing for us to cause and create pain in the world, no matter how much God disaproves of that pain.
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:08 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Lethkhar You have to throw in omnibenevolence into the mix, which negates the argument since there is pain in the world. Your God is still illogical. But God loves us, which means that He allows for our free will, thus allowing for us to cause and create pain in the world, no matter how much God disaproves of that pain. Really? Tell me, which human is responsible for Hurricane Katrina?
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:01 pm
Lethkhar Really? Tell me, which human is responsible for Hurricane Katrina? More than one human, actually. And it's the idiots that decided that building a city on sinking, below-water-level ground in areas known for hurricanes and floods was a good idea.
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:09 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Lethkhar Really? Tell me, which human is responsible for Hurricane Katrina? More than one human, actually. And it's the idiots that decided that building a city on sinking, below-water-level ground in areas known for hurricanes and floods was a good idea. New Orleans was founded before any of that was known. In fact, when New Orleans was founded it was still above sea level.
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:08 pm
Lethkhar New Orleans was founded before any of that was known. In fact, when New Orleans was founded it was still above sea level. Still in a swamp in a hurricane zone. Doesn't take much to figure out what was bound to happen eventually.
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:01 am
Cometh The Inquisitor Lethkhar New Orleans was founded before any of that was known. In fact, when New Orleans was founded it was still above sea level. Still in a swamp in a hurricane zone. Doesn't take much to figure out what was bound to happen eventually. Oh? So you would have forced hundreds of people to trek through swamp and ford rivers with small children and old people for some reason that you were unable to explain? I don't think too many people would have followed you. Tell me, which human is responsible for Pompeii? The San Francisco Earthquake? The 2004 tsunami in India? The Great Potato Famine? The Black Plague? Malaria? Scarlet Fever? Small Pox? "'And don't tell me God works in mysterious ways,' Yossarian continued. 'There's nothing mysterious about it, He's not working at all. He's playing. Or else He's forgotten all about us. That's the kind of God you people talk about, a country bumpkin, a clumsy, bungling, brainless, conceited, uncouth hayseed. Good God, how much reverence can you have for a Supreme Being who finds it necessary to include such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of Creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil, scatalogical mind of His when He robbed old people of the power to control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create pain?'"
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:29 am
Lethkhar Oh? So you would have forced hundreds of people to trek through swamp and ford rivers with small children and old people for some reason that you were unable to explain? I don't think too many people would have followed you. No, I'd question a)what the hell did they want in a swamp anyways, and b) why they didn't just go around. Quote: Tell me, which human is responsible for Pompeii? The San Francisco Earthquake? The 2004 tsunami in India? The Great Potato Famine? The Black Plague? Malaria? Scarlet Fever? Small Pox? None of which would be trajedies if the World was no seperated from God. Quote: "'And don't tell me God works in mysterious ways,' Yossarian continued. 'There's nothing mysterious about it, He's not working at all. He's playing. Or else He's forgotten all about us. That's the kind of God you people talk about, a country bumpkin, a clumsy, bungling, brainless, conceited, uncouth hayseed. Good God, how much reverence can you have for a Supreme Being who finds it necessary to include such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of Creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil, scatalogical mind of His when He robbed old people of the power to control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create pain?'" You'll have to better than quoting fictional characters.
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:17 pm
Quote: Quote: Tell me, which human is responsible for Pompeii? The San Francisco Earthquake? The 2004 tsunami in India? The Great Potato Famine? The Black Plague? Malaria? Scarlet Fever? Small Pox? None of which would be trajedies if the World was no seperated from God. And who is responsible for that? God. Quote: Quote: "'And don't tell me God works in mysterious ways,' Yossarian continued. 'There's nothing mysterious about it, He's not working at all. He's playing. Or else He's forgotten all about us. That's the kind of God you people talk about, a country bumpkin, a clumsy, bungling, brainless, conceited, uncouth hayseed. Good God, how much reverence can you have for a Supreme Being who finds it necessary to include such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of Creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil, scatalogical mind of His when He robbed old people of the power to control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create pain?'" You'll have to better than quoting fictional characters. Can you refute his point? Just because he's fictional that doesn't automatically make him wrong. Ever read Great Expectations?
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Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:01 pm
Lethkhar And who is responsible for that? God. Lethkhar Quote: "'And don't tell me God works in mysterious ways,' Yossarian continued. 'There's nothing mysterious about it, He's not working at all. He's playing. Or else He's forgotten all about us. That's the kind of God you people talk about, a country bumpkin, a clumsy, bungling, brainless, conceited, uncouth hayseed. Good God, how much reverence can you have for a Supreme Being who finds it necessary to include such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of Creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil, scatalogical mind of His when He robbed old people of the power to control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create pain?'" Cometh_the_Inquisitor You'll have to better than quoting fictional characters. Lethkhar Can you refute his point? Just because he's fictional that doesn't automatically make him wrong. Ever read Great Expectations?
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:20 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly Lethkhar And who is responsible for that? God. If my memory serves me right, it was God who put the tree in the garden. It was also God who allowed Satan into the garden. It was also God who kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden. Quote: Lethkhar Quote: "'And don't tell me God works in mysterious ways,' Yossarian continued. 'There's nothing mysterious about it, He's not working at all. He's playing. Or else He's forgotten all about us. That's the kind of God you people talk about, a country bumpkin, a clumsy, bungling, brainless, conceited, uncouth hayseed. Good God, how much reverence can you have for a Supreme Being who finds it necessary to include such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of Creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil, scatalogical mind of His when He robbed old people of the power to control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create pain?'" Cometh_the_Inquisitor You'll have to better than quoting fictional characters. Lethkhar Can you refute his point? Just because he's fictional that doesn't automatically make him wrong. Ever read Great Expectations? ...And God's vengeful nature...
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Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:53 pm
Maybe. He did tell us His name is Jealous (or Jealousy? ... one of the two). Are you shocked He would start doing crazy things when the creatures He made and loves leave Him?
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:11 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly Maybe. He did tell us His name is Jealous (or Jealousy? ... one of the two). Are you shocked He would start doing crazy things when the creatures He made and loves leave Him? Yes. He's a perfect being. He should be able to control his temper.
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