|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:43 pm
True Runes grant agelessness, not immortality. True Rune bearers still bleed when cut, and there are plenty of cases of True Rune bearers dying because of some for of physical death. Windy gets thrown from the top of a castle and dies. Barbarossa gets killed by Tir and friends, and then topples from a castle. Arshtat gets stabbed. The bearer of the Punishment Rune gets eaten by his own rune if he's not worthy of it.
Plenty of True Rune bearers have died while bearing their runes. The only form of immortality they grant is actually just 'agelessness'.
And I saw some Thomas bashing at the beginning of this thread. I cannot permit this to happen. Thomas was AWESOME. He's got one of the best attack stats in the game, A+ class Parry skill, something else goes to A+, and plenty of B+ skills all around. He's not very good with magic but this is remedied by giving him effect runes(AKA FURY FOR MAXIMUM EFFECT). Thomas is a BEAST. Not as beastly as, say, Juan or Leo or Fred, but he's certainly up there.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:54 pm
Gen_Eric_Gui True Rune bearers still bleed when cut I've never seen the red stuff yet. Quote: and there are plenty of cases of True Rune bearers dying because of some for of physical death. Care to point out all these times? Quote: Windy gets thrown from the top of a castle and dies. Windy's death has never been confirmed. I'm wondering where you got this information from. Quote: Barbarossa gets killed by Tir and friends, and then topples from a castle. Barbarossa didn't die from fighting the party. In fact, he stated that they pretty much did nothing to him. And as with Windy, his death hasn't been confirmed. About the only one that you sourced correctly. Quote: The bearer of the Punishment Rune gets eaten by his own rune if he's not worthy of it. This hardly seems physical to me. Unless your definition of physical is different from mine. Quote: Plenty of True Rune bearers have died while bearing their runes. You only pointed out one. You really need to point out the others since you believe there to be plenty.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:05 pm
Jowy was able to cut himself after taking on the Black Blade Rune. Geddoe bleeds several times in the manga for Suikoden 3. Hell, Geddoe gets <********. UP. in the manga when he fights Yuber the first time. So does the Fire Champion during flashbacks with Geddoe.
Yuber supposedly bears a true rune, and he runs at the first sign of a losing battle. If he's immortal from the rune, why would he run? He could just keep fighting forever and not care if he got wounded. And Yuber's had his rune for so long you'd figure he'd know something about it. If I remember correctly, he loses a hand in the final battle with Geddoe at the Sindar Ruins. Doesn't seem like he's very "invulnerable".
IIRC, Sasarai cannonically gets horribly sick while bearing the True Earth Rune. It's because he's sick that Luc was able to get the rune from him. I'm sketchy on this one though, it could have just been worded funny in the manga.
Jimba gets pretty ******** up via Luc just after grabbing the True Water Rune from the temple. He passes away and the rune leaps to Chris. He died from his wounds while the rune was still on him.
Ignoring a pattern of events doesn't make them not there. True Rune bearers gets seriosuly hurt and almost die or flat out die several times throughout the Suikoden games, and many of the characters who have borne True Runes for centuries show very real fear of death. True Runes grant agelessness, but the bearer can still be very much hurt and can very much die from their wounds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:01 pm
Gen_Eric_Gui Jowy was able to cut himself after taking on the Black Blade Rune. Geddoe bleeds several times in the manga for Suikoden 3. Hell, Geddoe gets <********. UP. in the manga when he fights Yuber the first time. So does the Fire Champion during flashbacks with Geddoe. Black Sword rune isn't a true rune. Getting beat up tells me what? And I just said I haven't seen the red stuff. This is obviously in reference to the game. Quote: Yuber supposedly bears a true rune, and he runs at the first sign of a losing battle. If he's immortal from the rune, why would he run? He could just keep fighting forever and not care if he got wounded. And Yuber's had his rune for so long you'd figure he'd know something about it. If I remember correctly, he loses a hand in the final battle with Geddoe at the Sindar Ruins. Doesn't seem like he's very "invulnerable". I never stated they're immortal. I'm just saying that you're sourcing is incorrect. You stated that there are plenty of time in which a TR user died physically, but didn't point out but only one. Yuber lost his hand in battle? What?! Oh, and immortality =/= invunerability. Quote: IIRC, Sasarai cannonically gets horribly sick while bearing the True Earth Rune. It's because he's sick that Luc was able to get the rune from him. I'm sketchy on this one though, it could have just been worded funny in the manga. I'm not sure why you are stating this. This has nothing to do with physical death, nor could this be true. Anyway, you're either terribly mistaken here, or you just pointed out an error the manga presented. TR wielders cannot get sick. Unless you're talking when he was repulsed by what Luc showed him. If that's so, it's not the same as catching a cold or contracting a disease... something TR wielders are immune to. Quote: Jimba gets pretty ******** up via Luc just after grabbing the True Water Rune from the temple. He passes away and the rune leaps to Chris. He died from his wounds while the rune was still on him. You once again failed to prove a physical death. Are you telling me Luc physically beat Wyatt to death? This is LUC we're talking about. He OBVIOUSLY used his TR against Wyatt. Thus Wyatt died by the hand of a TR. Still, I don't remember saying that they're immortal. I'm just questioning your choice of evidence. I mean, Windy and Barbarossa are NOT the best choices in proving TR wielders don't have immortality. Quote: Ignoring a pattern of events doesn't make them not there. True Rune bearers gets seriosuly hurt and almost die or flat out die several times throughout the Suikoden games, and many of the characters who have borne True Runes for centuries show very real fear of death. True Runes grant agelessness, but the bearer can still be very much hurt and can very much die from their wounds. Once again, you didn't point out much. And getting harmed does not mean death. You do know immortals can feel pain, right? It is invunerability that allows one not to feel pain. And last time I checked, immortality doesn't come packaged with invunerability. So, thus far, you only pointed out Arshtat dying physically while equipped with a TR.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:30 am
Please remember that the Manga and various novels are considered canon just a much as the games are. If the TR bearers can lose hands and get beaten to death in the manga, they can get beaten to death and thus DIE officially.
And I wasn't adressing the post jsut to you. Several people in the thread expressed that immortality == invulnerability, and this is obviously false since so many characters are able to easily harm themselves or be harmed quite badly even after bearing a TR for many many years.
My point to you is that even if Jimba was killed via the True Wind Rune, it still stands that he died from blood loss from his wounds. Even if those wounds were caused by a True Rune, he died from the blood loss, not from the rune itself.
TR Bearers can die.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:59 pm
Actually, while certain events in the manga and novels are canon, a fair amount of stuff in them are not, such as the names for the heroes, castles/ships, armies, and the Flame Champion.
But yes, True Rune bearers CAN die, just not from old age.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:03 pm
Flame Champion got a name at some point? Or do you mean that there's no "official" character who becomes the new Flame Champion?
It's pretty much common agreement that it's Hugo only I thought.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:04 am
Gen_Eric_Gui Please remember that the Manga and various novels are considered canon just a much as the games are. If the TR bearers can lose hands and get beaten to death in the manga, they can get beaten to death and thus DIE officially. Okay, but you STILL haven't pointed out these instances. All you did was point out Arshtat dying physically, and stating that characters were beat up. I clearly stated that invunerability is not packaged with immortality. So unless you care to point out when these times of physical death occurred, do not bring it up. Quote: And I wasn't adressing the post jsut to you. Several people in the thread expressed that immortality == invulnerability, and this is obviously false since so many characters are able to easily harm themselves or be harmed quite badly even after bearing a TR for many many years. No, several people stated that immortality = not dying. Immortal people, once again, CAN feel pain. Where are you getting invunerability from? Quote: My point to you is that even if Jimba was killed via the True Wind Rune, it still stands that he died from blood loss from his wounds. Even if those wounds were caused by a True Rune, he died from the blood loss, not from the rune itself. And it was a point you failed at. Getting harmed from a TR SHOULD NOT be equated to getting harmed physically. If you do, then you're denouncing that TR are, effectively, gods. And where was it said that he died from blood loss? I've yet to wonder where I was disputing this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:09 am
Gen_Eric_Gui Flame Champion got a name at some point? Or do you mean that there's no "official" character who becomes the new Flame Champion? It's pretty much common agreement that it's Hugo only I thought. Both. Hugo is the generally accepted flame Champion 2, but there's no actual canon choice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:25 am
I'm going to ignore Funeral Wind because I have no idea what he's even trying to argue at this point.
Hugo is the only FC who makes sense, IMO. I mean, I guess you could make an arguement that Chris would make a better one, due to her knowledge of battle planning and crowd control and what, but Geddoe doesn't make any sense in that role.
The canon is sort of driven at Hugo being it. I guess I just think it's so obvious that they intended HIM to be the champion that you could almost certainly say it was canon.
I mean, in Romancing SaGa, any one of the main characters CAN defeat Saruin at the end of the game, because that's the way the game is built. But the only hero for whom it makes SENSE that he can beat him is Albert. Since he's the only one who canonically fits all the "qualities" of Elore's champion, he can be assumed to be the canonic hero, even though in-game he's doesn't have to be. I think it's the same thing at work in Suiko 3, personally.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:51 am
Yes, that's definatly true, but the fact still remains that there is no right choice. I personally prefer Hugo because Chris sucks at magic and Geddoe has the True Lightning Rune, there isn't now and never will be a correct choice for the new Flame Champion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:46 pm
Gen_Eric_Gui I'm going to ignore Funeral Wind because I have no idea what he's even trying to argue at this point. Since this seems to be going completely over your head, (I don't know how. This s**t isn't rocket science), let me simplify it as best as I can. You don't seem to know what the hell immortality is. Did that help?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:28 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
