Bored again, guess I killed this thread for the most part tho? What? Where's the anti-TKD ignorance that I was so looking forward to refuting?
Keyboard Warrior
I guess my BIGGEST beef with the WTF isn't the sparring ruleset, but the politics and seemingly false history they spew regarding TKD's origins.
Well I will not deny that the politics of the WTF has had its share of corruption and dirt and I equally dislike it, but I ask what major sports governing organization hasn't? As for the false TKD origins, yeah, a lot of TKD practioners and instructors aren't very objective about the history of TKD (instructor's because they're trying to impress in order to make money and practioners because they get told this and don't know any better). I'm in total agreement with you there that TKD is a modern art and not derived (at least not directly) from Taekkyon and Soobak. Honestly, I don't have any real beef with you and your beef on TKD. You have legit reasons, previous experience with the "art," and it's not your cup of tea, I respect that.
Keyboard Warrior
Also, I agree that speed is very important factor...but so is power. What's the point of having speed if you can't back it up with power?
Well I also agree that if you have little to no mass (what you mean by power) behind a kick, it can be the fastest kick in the world and it'll still generate little force. But there's very little you can do to actually increase the mass of your leg or kicking surface. You can however improve the speed of your kicking leg by learning to generate more force. The Thai fighter doesn't improve the power of his kicks by increasing the mass of his shin, but rather by increasing the force he can generate at his hips (Torque, since the force required to turn the hip is rotational), and since Force is directly proportional to acceleration (F=ma), increase in force leads to an increased speed of the kicking leg which in turn leads to an increased impact force of the kick.
To add onto my previous ruminations on the subject, it's not in the mechanics of the kick necessarily that make a Thai RHK stronger or a TKD RHK weaker. If both kicks were thrown with equal initial momentum, the TKD kick would be faster and the MT kick would be slower but they'd generate the same impact force. I had previously simplified the statement by claiming that TKD compensates w/ speed and MT compensates w/ mass. Yet having thought it over, this doesn't explain why MT fighters throw rather fast kicks and why most people believe that MT kicks are stronger. I now have a theory that explains this:
Moment of Inertia is like the rotational equal to mass; the mass x the radius^2 of the rotating object. If something has a lot of mass, it requires a lot of force to accelerate the mass; same concept w/ rotational forces, if something has a large moment of inertia, then it requires a lot of torque in order to accelerate (angularly) around an axis. It is easier to accelerate the TKD rhk because the leg is pulled in and chambered, keeping the radius of rotation (the hips) minimal and thus the moment of inertia minimal as well (thus why TKD Rhk are mechanically faster). It is harder to accelerate the MT rhk because there's a larger radius (the hips are open and also the leg is swung) and thus the moment of inertia is larger and why the MT rhk are mechanically slower. So in order for the MT fighter to increase force, he has to increase the acceleration of his kick and in order to do that he has to overcome a large moment of inertia by generating more torque or more force at the hips. This is basically the scientific interpretation of "throwing your whole momentum behind a kick" (when really you're generating more momentum by generating more torque). In order to generate more torque or force at the hips depends on the fighter's physiology and conditioning.
So in conclusion, the reason why most people believe that MT fighters generally throw a stronger RHK is because they usually are throwing with more force/torque. It's not that the TKD kick is mechanically inferior, it's just that the TKD fighter doesn't usually (not to say that he isn't capable of) throw with as much torque as the MT fighter because he doesn't need to in order to accelerate his kick (though he would if he wanted to throw faster and harder). So it's the fighters and not the kicks themselves.
Wasn't that interesting? Honest, I really thought so, gave me something to think about in physics class.
Metro_Spike
Because TaeKwonDo only has a front-aimed snap kick, there are no round snap kicks. We are taught that power derives from kick just slightly past the intended striking area. Hip and waist rotation is key to be able to kick fast enough, and reaction time is the training we do.
A GOOD TKD rhk includes rotation of the hip after it leaves the chambering as you describe, WTF style included. Fast kicks which I assume what you're referring to as round snap kicks are not meant to be powerful but rather fast since they're the equivalent of a boxer's jab. They set up the second or third rhk, which is performed with momentum generated from hip rotation.
Metro_Spike
Sorry, I should not have said "no chance" in such restrictive, definite terms. I guess I am saying that there is less emphasis on the fighters mental abilities and knowledge of fighting, because fights are not settled one point at a time. Over the duration of a 3 minute match, the opponent can be set up for a much larger attack then he can if you cannot sacrifice taking a hit to execute it on him...unless it's executed as a counter or a simultaneous exchange, something of that sort. I like the chess type of feel of sparring I get in my own school, whereas I feel restricted in a point-sparring system. Although it's not completely a bad thing, because it can help me to grow by forcing me into a situation I am not used to where I have to think on my feet in circumstances I am not accustomed to being under. ^_^
Again, I disagree. If you were to spar against an experienced fighter with no wits at all, he'd measure you up and counter you all day long. I'm still not certain what you're trying to argue. WTF TKD matches are 9 minutes, three 3 minute rounds each and only recently have they instituted a rule where you can end the match early by outscoring your opponent (there has to be a 7 point spread though, which means it's more of a mercy TKO more than anything) so that most matches go the duration. A good majority of GOOD WTF TKD bouts are mental chess games, since the action is mostly broken up into short bursts, the majority of the time the fighters stay outside of each other's kicking range trying to test their opponent's reactions with baiting steps and footwork. Hell, one of my biggest weakness is that when I know I'm facing a good fighter, I freeze up with intimidation as I run several scenarios in my head of how this guy can counter me. Just because the sport is fast paced doesn't mean there isn't a good deal of timing and spacing strategies involved.
