should they teach about creation in school

[Juridical Manager]

I would like to quote Dr. Grady S. McMurtry, in his book "Creation: Our Worldview":

Quote:

There are four commonly held beliefs about scientists. These are that they are unbiased, that they are objective, that they are infallible and that they always wear a white lab coat and experiment on rats. However, the truths about scientists are that they are biased, that they are not objective, they are human, thus they are fallible and they seldom ever wear a white lab coat (only a small percentage actually experiment on rats).

First, there is no such thing as true neutrality in human endeavor. It is a laboratory ideal which may only be striven toward. Second, people are likewise unable to be totally objective. Third, no human is perfect and therefore, everyone is fallible. Finally, white lab coats and rats are representative of only a very small part of scientific research.

It can be said that EVERYONE is 100% biased. Review the following chart:



[...] Since there is no way in which to scientifically prove either position concerning creation or evolution, is there a way in which we can test them? Yes, in science when we cannot test something directly, we test it indirectly. We do this all the time. For example, when we make models of airplanes and we test them in wind tunnels before we spend the money to build full-sized planes. This kiind of model building goas on all the time.

In the same book, he also quotes Boyce Rensberg in "How the World Works":

Quote:

At this point, it is necessary to reveal a little inside information about how scientists work, something the textbooks don't usually tell you. The fact is that scientists are not really as objective and dispassionate in their work as they would like you to think. Most scientists first get their ideas about how the world works not through rigorously logical processes, but through hunches and wild guesses.

As individuals, they often come to believe something to be true long before they assemble the hard evidence that will convince somebody else that it is. Motivated by faith in his own ideas and a desire for acceptance by his peers, a scientist will labor for years knowing in his heart that his theory is correct but devising experiment after experiment whose results he hopes will support his position.

As someone before me said here, either you should:
1) Have the freedom to choose which of the two (evolution or creation) you want to be taught about.
2) Being taught about both perspectives (I personally tend to consider this one as the best).
3) Not being taught either at all.  

[sunshinehearttrob]

creationism is religion and religion (church) is separated from state which sucks. but i do think it should be covered, therefore giving others a choice to choose between. people can pick for themselves what they believe instead of growing up with one idea and adopting it from parents.  

[Cyberpunk Hero]

sunshinehearttrob

creationism is religion and religion (church) is separated from state which sucks. but i do think it should be covered, therefore giving others a choice to choose between. people can pick for themselves what they believe instead of growing up with one idea and adopting it from parents.

Wait, what?

That makes no sense.

You admit that Creationism is a religious construct. Religious beliefs should not be taught in public schools. Why should Creationism even be brought up when it's obviously inappropriate?  

[promised_child]

sunshinehearttrob

creationism is religion and religion (church) is separated from state which sucks. but i do think it should be covered, therefore giving others a choice to choose between. people can pick for themselves what they believe instead of growing up with one idea and adopting it from parents.

Creationism is scientific theory. Seperation of church and state has nothing to do with the constitution or science. it was one line taken from a letter that Jefferson wrote to the BAPTISTS and was never meant to be a law. the constitution says that "Congress shall make no law governing religeon"(paraphrase) which in turn makes the laws that are based on seperation of church and state unconstitutional.  

[Cyberpunk Hero]

promised_child

Creationism is scientific theory.

No.

It isn't.

It absolutely isn't. It isn't even close.

promised_child

Seperation of church and state has nothing to do with the constitution or science.

Well, also not quite true. While the phrase "Church and state should be separated" never appears in the Constitution or any of its amendments, the 1st amendment contains the establishment clause, which enforces a rudimentary separation between the two. Further rulings have supported that religious belief is an insufficient reason to support a law.

promised_child

which in turn makes the laws that are based on seperation of church and state unconstitutional.

That's not quite correct. What you mean to say is that laws based on separating church and state are not directly supported by the Constitution.

There are plenty of laws, however, that are not directly supported by the Constitution. Many of them are fine laws, and few of them are actually unconstitutional.

If it contradicted something written in the Constitution, then it would be unconstitutional.  

[pnai_pride777]

its not illegal to teach creation in school.
the question is does the school want you to?

evolutionists have been trying to eliminate God from our public lives, its about time we put it back

some consider creationism to be a religion. what do you consider evolution? science?
hah, if you consider us comming from nothing which all of the sudden became something tha all of the sudden blew up, and became a rock which all of the sudden had rain turn it into cambles chicken noodle soup, which created fish, which created a frog, which all of the sudden became a monkey which all of the sudden had a smart naked baby, then by all means believe what you want.. [[personaly i think a creator make way more sence!]]

if you want more infor you can always go to dr.dino.com i think... maybe not but you can watch kent hovind debates and seminars for serious proof =] thats where i get a lot of my logic from .. as well as the bible =]  

[GO-YAFFA]

I don't think so because it is not science. Science is based off of study and experiments and since we can't call up God and schedule an interview it can't be treated as science.  

[pnai_pride777]

well how can you prove the world came from flying dust and 1,000,000 year... ok well now they're probably saying 1,000,000,000 years ago was one million years ago. you can use the bible as your text book such as relating the ice age to the flood or the mammoths. how can a mammoth be frozen in a upright possition so quickly?  

[Metanoeo]

Should they teach about creation in school? No, that would be a violation of the Separation Church and State. Oddly, I'm a Creationist and devoted born-again Christian who supports the American SC&S.

For some reason, some believe that young students being taught Darwinism will make them deny the idea of a Creator. Lets see... Hasn't Darwinism been in the classroom since the 1960s or was it the early 70s? What is up with the idea that those who being taught philosophy, Darwinism, agnosticism or other religions have a less chance of becoming born again down the road? Do you believe God is failing in the classroom? Never... Man is blind and only the grace of God will draw a man towards the Creator. Leave politics and Christianity separate.  

[pnai_pride777]

Reformed Baptist

Should they teach about creation in school? No, that would be a violation of the Separation Church and State. Oddly, I'm a Creationist and devoted born-again Christian who supports the American SC&S.

For some reason, some believe that young students being taught Darwinism will make them deny the idea of a Creator. Lets see... Hasn't Darwinism been in the classroom since the 1960s or was it the early 70s? What is up with the idea that those who being taught philosophy, Darwinism, agnosticism or other religions have a less chance of becoming born again down the road? Do you believe God is failing in the classroom? Never... Man is blind and only the grace of God will draw a man towards the Creator. Leave politics and Christianity separate.

how can you leave those two separate our founding fathers created our laws based on the bible! do not steal? ello commandment! under God =/ where would our country be w/out God's word?  

[Metanoeo]

pnai_pride777

Reformed Baptist

Should they teach about creation in school? No, that would be a violation of the Separation Church and State. Oddly, I'm a Creationist and devoted born-again Christian who supports the American SC&S.

For some reason, some believe that young students being taught Darwinism will make them deny the idea of a Creator. Lets see... Hasn't Darwinism been in the classroom since the 1960s or was it the early 70s? What is up with the idea that those who being taught philosophy, Darwinism, agnosticism or other religions have a less chance of becoming born again down the road? Do you believe God is failing in the classroom? Never... Man is blind and only the grace of God will draw a man towards the Creator. Leave politics and Christianity separate.

how can you leave those two separate our founding fathers created our laws based on the bible! do not steal? ello commandment! under God =/ where would our country be w/out God's word?

Our nation is nothing but a man-made government that God established, just like other nations and kingdoms. The Word of God is for the sinners in America, not for the government. Its true that some of the founding fathers proclaimed to be Christians however, they did not make the Bible the foundation of the American government. Every Christian should find the Separation of Church and State to be a blessing because it protects us. Take a look at The Reformation for an example. Kings and Queens who were devout Roman Catholics persecuted and killed Protestants for protesting against the evils of the Roman Catholic Church. There was no Separation of Church and State back then. Ever heard of Bloody Mary?

America has now evolved into a secular nation however it protects us Christians (so far so good). There is no nation or kingdom that can be or is holy or righteous, except for the one in Heaven.  

[SinfulGuillotine]

pnai_pride777

Reformed Baptist

Should they teach about creation in school? No, that would be a violation of the Separation Church and State. Oddly, I'm a Creationist and devoted born-again Christian who supports the American SC&S.

For some reason, some believe that young students being taught Darwinism will make them deny the idea of a Creator. Lets see... Hasn't Darwinism been in the classroom since the 1960s or was it the early 70s? What is up with the idea that those who being taught philosophy, Darwinism, agnosticism or other religions have a less chance of becoming born again down the road? Do you believe God is failing in the classroom? Never... Man is blind and only the grace of God will draw a man towards the Creator. Leave politics and Christianity separate.

how can you leave those two separate our founding fathers created our laws based on the bible! do not steal? ello commandment! under God =/ where would our country be w/out God's word?

Many of the Founding Fathers were actually Deist, and they're the ones who created the idea of separation of Church and State. Considering that the US exists because people were seeking religious freedom, mixing religion and politices seems highly hypocritical. "Do not steal" does not need a religious justification to be wrong, much like things like rape and murder. You're infringing on another's property (be it their body or material goods) without their consent. That hardly requires religion to be wrong.

Creationism needs to stay out of schools. If parents can't deal with their children being presented with just evolution, then they can send their kid to a private school that teaches their beliefs. Those who are not Christian, however, should be free to receive an education that does not include religious ideals. You can learn about religion at home and at church. You learn about science in science class.  

[SinfulGuillotine]

pnai_pride777

well how can you prove the world came from flying dust and 1,000,000 year... ok well now they're probably saying 1,000,000,000 years ago was one million years ago. you can use the bible as your text book such as relating the ice age to the flood or the mammoths. how can a mammoth be frozen in a upright possition so quickly?

4.5 billion years, actually.

And such theories do not exclude God from the equation. They simply do not require God, which is why they should have a place in public education, while creationism should not.  

[Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori]

Reformed Baptist

For some reason, some believe that young students being taught Darwinism will make them deny the idea of a Creator. Lets see... Hasn't Darwinism been in the classroom since the 1960s or was it the early 70s? What is up with the idea that those who being taught philosophy, Darwinism, agnosticism or other religions have a less chance of becoming born again down the road?

That's a really good point. If fundamentalist Christians are so scared about Darwinist theories convincing people that Creationism is a lie, what does that say about Darwinism's validity and believability?  

[Redem]

Iluminador

As someone before me said here, either you should:
1) Have the freedom to choose which of the two (evolution or creation) you want to be taught about.
2) Being taught about both perspectives (I personally tend to consider this one as the best).
3) Not being taught either at all.

The only legal option is to teach science as science, and leave creationism in churches where it belongs.

promised_child

Creationism is scientific theory.

Nope, not in the least. It either contradicts observed facts about the universe, or is so vague as to simply not be anything but a vague "you don't know there wasn't a creator".

promised_child

it was one line taken from a letter that Jefferson wrote to the BAPTISTS and was never meant to be a law. the constitution says that "Congress shall make no law governing religeon"(paraphrase) which in turn makes the laws that are based on seperation of church and state unconstitutional.

The phrase was taken from that letter, but the establishment clause is in the constitution.
And that is how it is interpreted by the supreme court.

pnai_pride777

its not illegal to teach creation in school.

In public schools it is. I can cite multiple legal precedents for this if you wish, but it suffices to know that it has ALWAYS been deemed unconstitutional in court.

pnai_pride777

evolutionists have been trying to eliminate God from our public lives, its about time we put it back

This is a paranoid lie.

"Evolutionists" is a term I take to mean those who are not biblical literalists. In that sense it is a useless term, as it does not describe those you use it to describe.

Legally speaking your government CANNOT promote or recognise your religion. This is the wish of anyone who values religious freedom.

pnai_pride777

some consider creationism to be a religion. what do you consider evolution? science?

Yup

pnai_pride777

hah, if you consider us comming from nothing which all of the sudden became something tha all of the sudden blew up, and became a rock which all of the sudden had rain turn it into cambles chicken noodle soup, which created fish, which created a frog, which all of the sudden became a monkey which all of the sudden had a smart naked baby, then by all means believe what you want.. [[personaly i think a creator make way more sence!]]

What you think makes sense, frankly, doesn't matter at all. You are not a scientist. And it is scientists that make the scientific consensus.

pnai_pride777

if you want more infor you can always go to dr.dino.com i think... maybe not but you can watch kent hovind debates and seminars for serious proof =] thats where i get a lot of my logic from .. as well as the bible =]

Dr. Dino? =/

Oh come on, the man is a complete fraud. He doesn't even pay his bloody taxes. And many of his "arguments" sounds great to the uneducated, but none of them stand up to critical analysis. He is a demagogue, not a scientist.

Quote:

how can a mammoth be frozen in a upright position so quickly?

They're never actually frozen standing up, as far as I know. But I assume it happens from them falling into rapidly freezing water.