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 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:02 pm
Conren Shanra the Bard And in case you weren't aware of it, artificial contraception goes against church teaching. Anything that prevents the creation of life is just as wrong as the taking of it, once it has begun. Hmm, so I suppose choosing to be celibate would go against church teachings? No it would not. We are all called to celibacy if we are single. We were created to procreate yes, but only through the sacrament of marriage. That is the main purpose for a man a woman getting married, is to have children. For those who do not feel called to marriage, then they are called to celibacy. Whether or not they serve the church in a religious capacity or not. Shanra the Bard If you don't follow the teachings of the church in their intirety, then don't call yourself Catholic, because you aren't. This is not a club, where you can pick and choose which rules you want to follow. You either follow them all, or you get out. Actually in clubs you do have to follow the rules. Or else, they do kick you out. ninja Ok, I'll give you that one. You are right, they do kick you out.
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:56 pm
Shanra the Bard I.Am lu-tze I.Am And worship crackers! xd Lots of kids always makes me think of "stereotypical" Catholics. I'm Catholic! But... I have no kids razz Well, not that I know of... And seeing as I have never donated or had sex then I assume I don't have any... Oh, I'm Male by the way. Well, I meant stereotypical married Catholics. XP I mean, my mom has 7 kids, and I'm the oldest. O.O That's insane. I'm Catholic too, btw. blaugh OK, I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but I have to ask, "Why is it insane to be open to having as many children as God sees fit to grace you with?" It's todays mentality that more than 2 or 3 kids is not normal that has the church in crisis today. If couples would stop using artificial birth control, think of the number of possible priests and religious we would have today. And in case you weren't aware of it, artificial contraception goes against church teaching. Anything that prevents the creation of life is just as wrong as the taking of it, once it has begun. If you don't follow the teachings of the church in their intirety, then don't call yourself Catholic, because you aren't. This is not a club, where you can pick and choose which rules you want to follow. You either follow them all, or you get out. Um... Thanks for assaulting my beliefs there, friend. And I really want to argue this with you, but this isn't the place. We have a perfectly good religion thread right here. Please go there if you want to actually argue religion. Honestly, though, one of the reasons I eventually left the Church is because it seems to encourage your kind of thought; That we should follow the Church's teachings, not think about them, not doubt them, or GTFO. And it makes me extremely angry that anyone would support blind belief without thought. And something I hate about people within and without the Church are people who assume you are saying one thing and go off on a tangent because of it. I wasn't saying it's bad for my mom to have 7 kids. I love my siblings, and I love my mom. And I'm not saying she should have used artificial contraception. But you know why she doesn't have 12, 15 kids? Because she knows how to use natural contraception, which is fully acceptable to the Church and, when used properly, can be just about as effective as artificial contraception. It just takes more willpower. So back off.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:32 pm
 I'm a Roman Catholic as well, and I am not anti-artificial conception.
The way I see it, a condom beats the heck out of killing an innocent child. You have to understand that, in this day and age, nothing's free anymore. About two hundred years ago, when you were lucky if you got chicken pox and didn't die, having a dozen or more children wasn't that bad. You could grow and slaughter your own food, women didn't work or go to school, and big families were probably easier to have with less expenses.
Nowadays, medical care is expensive. Food can be expensive (especially for a big family.) Women go to school and go to work and sometimes don't have the time to be housewives or the money to hire a full-time babysitter. Sending your kids to school is expensive. Taxes are high. Clothing is expensive, water and electricity bills are expensive. Traveling is expensive. Life is expensive, and not all of us have enough money to support many kids.
Don't get me wrong. None of this justifies abortion, in my eyes.
But can you really blame someone for using artificial conception (I'm speaking in the context of a marriage and sex that occurs in a marriage bed) when life is so expensive nowadays? Is artificial contraception really comparable to killing a human being?
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:51 pm
It's not the same, no. But is it really all that different? One of the biggest reasons for abortion is because contraception sometimes fails, for unmarried and married alike.
If your marriage can't handle another child, then use God's contraception - the woman's unfertile stages. When she's fertile, abstain, offer up the sacrifice for the good of the marriage. God understands that not everyone can handle a dozen kids. Some can barely manage to scrape by with two or three. So God didn't make women always fertile. In my opinion, people use contraception for convenience. Even if it's for the sake of holding off on another child because the marriage can't afford it, there are other ways.
Don't shut God out by closing the door to Him through contraception. If you're careful, if you plan it out, if you pray about it, you'll be alright. God won't give you more than you can handle. He knows what He's doing, and He knows how much you can take.
Just think about all the money you'll save on buying condoms or the Pill. Put that money in your kids' college funds, or towards the preparation of the time when you'll be ready to have another baby.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:48 pm
Okay, I'm just heading this off right here and redirecting a bit, because there's a discussion here http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?page=14&t=2100211#145102190 This thread is getting a bit off topic. Which isn't really bad, but as long as there are arguments in other places, it makes sense to keep things together. Edit: In fact, maybe we should just start a new thread there, because this seems to go deeper than "what's your religion?" It's a really good discussion, I think. This one I mean.
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:18 am
I.Am Shanra the Bard I.Am lu-tze I.Am And worship crackers! xd Lots of kids always makes me think of "stereotypical" Catholics. I'm Catholic! But... I have no kids razz Well, not that I know of... And seeing as I have never donated or had sex then I assume I don't have any... Oh, I'm Male by the way. Well, I meant stereotypical married Catholics. XP I mean, my mom has 7 kids, and I'm the oldest. O.O That's insane. I'm Catholic too, btw. blaugh OK, I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but I have to ask, "Why is it insane to be open to having as many children as God sees fit to grace you with?" It's todays mentality that more than 2 or 3 kids is not normal that has the church in crisis today. If couples would stop using artificial birth control, think of the number of possible priests and religious we would have today. And in case you weren't aware of it, artificial contraception goes against church teaching. Anything that prevents the creation of life is just as wrong as the taking of it, once it has begun. If you don't follow the teachings of the church in their intirety, then don't call yourself Catholic, because you aren't. This is not a club, where you can pick and choose which rules you want to follow. You either follow them all, or you get out. Um... Thanks for assaulting my beliefs there, friend. And I really want to argue this with you, but this isn't the place. We have a perfectly good religion thread right here. Please go there if you want to actually argue religion. Honestly, though, one of the reasons I eventually left the Church is because it seems to encourage your kind of thought; That we should follow the Church's teachings, not think about them, not doubt them, or GTFO. And it makes me extremely angry that anyone would support blind belief without thought. And something I hate about people within and without the Church are people who assume you are saying one thing and go off on a tangent because of it. I wasn't saying it's bad for my mom to have 7 kids. I love my siblings, and I love my mom. And I'm not saying she should have used artificial contraception. But you know why she doesn't have 12, 15 kids? Because she knows how to use natural contraception, which is fully acceptable to the Church and, when used properly, can be just about as effective as artificial contraception. It just takes more willpower. So back off. You left the church?
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:05 pm
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:56 pm
Rhia Kolareny It's not the same, no. But is it really all that different? One of the biggest reasons for abortion is because contraception sometimes fails, for unmarried and married alike. If your marriage can't handle another child, then use God's contraception - the woman's unfertile stages. When she's fertile, abstain, offer up the sacrifice for the good of the marriage. God understands that not everyone can handle a dozen kids. Some can barely manage to scrape by with two or three. So God didn't make women always fertile. In my opinion, people use contraception for convenience. Even if it's for the sake of holding off on another child because the marriage can't afford it, there are other ways. Don't shut God out by closing the door to Him through contraception. If you're careful, if you plan it out, if you pray about it, you'll be alright. God won't give you more than you can handle. He knows what He's doing, and He knows how much you can take. Just think about all the money you'll save on buying condoms or the Pill. Put that money in your kids' college funds, or towards the preparation of the time when you'll be ready to have another baby. I see where you're coming from, and I agree that being aware of your menstrual cycle is a wonderful way to hold off a pregnancy without using any artificial forms of contraception.
But what about women like me, where even a little bit of stress of exams or interviews or projects can throw off my cycle by half a month? When I'm married, I intend on having a very wonderful and fulfilling sex life. I believe that's a part of a healthy marriage, and I'm sure you would agree. But not all of us have dependable cycles. What would you recommend for me, or any other women out there like me?
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:17 pm
NFP (Natural Family Planning) goes deeper than just counting days. I don't have a reliable cycle, either (In fact, I only get mine three to five times a year). There are a number of different types of plans you can choose from, classes you can take, NFP-only doctors you could go to for help and advice. I haven't looked into it much myself because I'm personally not concerned about it. I don't even know if I'm fertile and if any of this will have any impact on me in the end, so I can't give you many details about it. But if you really were interested, there are plenty of places to go to research it.
By the by, I think communication is a lot more important to a marriage than sex. Sex is a bond that brings spouses closer together, but if you rely on a healthy sex life to keep your marriage together, what happens when one spouse has to go away for a long time? Or what if one spouse can't have sex for a long time for some reason or another? I think depending on a healthy and regular sex life is something that destroys a lot of marriages. But that's just my opinion.
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:44 pm
Hey, ya'll, lymelady already said: If we want to continue this discussion, move it to a new thread specifically about contraception within the Catholic Church. Really. I'd love to take part in this discussion too. But this isn't the place.
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:13 pm
Sorry about that, guys. ^^ I wrote my last response in a hurry. I'm responding in the other thread now.
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:14 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:07 am
I am a female, and I am currently pregnant. Even if this baby was unplanned I wouldn't feel as if she was a parasite taking over my rights.
I am very pro life.
oh and the poll doesn't seem to be there..
edit: I just thought I would add that I am against the death penalty and I am an atheist. When people hear that I am pro-life they assume I am some religious nut which I am not. oh I am anti-feminism! I like to shave my legs, wear bras, use tampons and I look forward to being a wife and a stay at home mother.
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:52 am
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:22 pm
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